It is time to question Poloniex market manipulation

[spartak_t]

It would be a big deal if you actually had evidence.

"r0ach said so" does not make it big deal.

Yeah... too much conspiracy.

[r0ach]

Yeah... too much conspiracy.

More like simple math.

[tokeweed]

Why is everyone so jelly of Polo and Ethereum all of a sudden?

[tokeweed]

Then don't use them when doing trades.

[Febo]

I agree with you that the original premise of Polo being in on the wash trading is unlikely, but I wasn't suggesting that at all.

You actually believe the Eth wash trader is paying 100-200 BTC per day (sometimes probably even more than that) just to wash trade?  It's obvious Poloniex has made a backroom deal with them because they'd be better off just buying the actual coin to manipulate the market rather than wash trading if they were paying that much.

If he earns more then that, i dont see reason why not.


I don't understand why you did not stated this month ago when was obvious? I mention several times in Monero speculation thread that sudden high volume on Poloniex is suspicious, but did not recall anyone would agree with me.  It was seen since all coins got increased volume at same time. and that happened many times. So it was one or a group of traders, working together.


But what you are saying now is something else. And i am not sure how you can prove that. Would they do that and risk their reputation when they were moving to top exchanges, even without this?

[r0ach]

My main problem with it is they're supposed to be an altcoin exchange, but now they're framing one coin as superior to all others due to a backroom deal they made with someone to allow permanent wash trading of one single asset.  When you give someone non-public rates on trades that results in one coin being wash traded to 50-100x higher volume than every other coin, it makes Poloniex themselves in on the pump/manipulation.

The last thing on earth you want is to be trading assets where the exchange owner is in on the manipulation themselves.  Anyone remember when Vertcoin hit something like $10?  I talked to Big Vern and told him to add it to Craptsy.  What did Big Vern do?  He added the coin and then immediately disabled wallets so nobody could deposit shortly after, dumped at market peak, then re-enabled wallets again several hours later.  He probably just dumped coins that customers themselves deposited (shorting), then buys back after the market crashes.  If the exchange owner is in on any type of manipulation, traders are screwed and there is no reason to go anywhere near the coin.

[Febo]

I totally agree.  You need to treat all costumers equally.  All need to have same fee.  But how we can be sure, this is true?  As i stated before, they risk to much.
If your complain is that ETH fees are lower then for other coins i don see that as something bad. If they offer this to all traders.

They can also make no fee trades if they want. As long as they are for all traders and everyone know that and assume that part of volume can be fake.

[alyssa85]

It's blatantly obvious Eth is and has been wash traded by a single entity on Poloniex for literally months now.  Their fee structure is setup where someone pushing that volume would have 0.10% taker fees and 0.0% maker fees, so 0.05% if wash traded.

On a slow Eth day of 20,000 BTC volume, that would be 100 BTC per day in wash trade fees.  Does anyone honestly believe the Poloniex Eth manipulators pay that much?  Hell no.  

Why is Poloniex doing backroom deals with market manipulators to artificially pump coins to defraud investors?  It's different if some random guy like Wolong decides to pump a random shit coin, but when the exchange itself is involved in the scheme (like Bittrex has been accused of with Bobsurplus), it's pretty questionable.

Why do you assume that there is one person doing all the trades on Ether? More likely there are lots of smaller traders, who are trading on margin, which is why you see such a huge volume. Ether's volume on Kraken and other places is pretty big too.

When that Mike Hearn thing happened, lots of bitcoin traders switched to Ether - ETH got lucky in that their coin was being promoted at the same time. If the Hearn thing had happened two years earlier, the rush of money fleeing bitcoin would have gone into Doge.

If you look at the btc/usd charts and the ETH/USD charts, they are negatively correlated. This is being caused by bitcoin traders finding something new and more profitable to trade.

[Febo]

@alyssa85

because trades started at same hour, on at least 5-10 moments. for like 5-10 coins. It was one guy or a group of guys work close together, to manipulate market. Yes, they used all tools possible so knew when they must do something for best result.

[tokeweed]

My main problem with it is they're supposed to be an altcoin exchange, but now they're framing one coin as superior to all others due to a backroom deal they made with someone to allow permanent wash trading of one single asset.  When you give someone non-public rates on trades that results in one coin being wash traded to 50-100x higher volume than every other coin, it makes Poloniex themselves in on the pump/manipulation.

The last thing on earth you want is to be trading assets where the exchange owner is in on the manipulation themselves.  Anyone remember when Vertcoin hit something like $10?  I talked to Big Vern and told him to add it to Craptsy.  What did Big Vern do?  He added the coin and then immediately disabled wallets so nobody could deposit shortly after, dumped at market peak, then re-enabled wallets again several hours later.  He probably just dumped coins that customers themselves deposited (shorting), then buys back after the market crashes.  If the exchange owner is in on any type of manipulation, traders are screwed and there is no reason to go anywhere near the coin.

Please show your proof.  These are serious allegations.

[Sark]

Its going to be alright folks, the kind of wash trading - OKCoin is soon adding ETH pairs so there is no way Polo will be able to compete in the wash trading game.

[tokeweed]

Roach, is this you? 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

[spartak_t]

Roach, is this you? 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

These are some serious accusations...

[r0ach]

Roach, is this you? 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

no

[bl234st]

Roach, is this you? 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

Roach has had a bug up his ass ever since he invested in BTS and the trolls on Polo dumped on him. He whined and complained that these markets don't have enough liquidity to support margin trading. He's right, but so is the fanatic standing on the corner yelling the Apocalypse is coming. I have lines plotted from 6 months ago on Bitstamp, and its a joke how obvious BTC trades. These markets trade like the guy who plays ABC poker. Yes Roach, Polo is a turd festival, but so is everything else in this rigged world. To me, you are nothing but another mushroom farmer.

[r0ach]

No Eth shills please.

Vitalik is a genius. Fact!

[bl234st]

No Eth shills please.

Vitalik is a genius. Fact!

Yes, I am a shill! And you are a guy who trashes anything but his own interests. I know I am a joke, but you have no idea the joke is on you.  

[alyssa85]

Roach, is this you? 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4jg1br/psa_poloniex_is_close_to_insolvency/

Haha.

These are some serious accusations...

Yeah. It is interesting. Poloniex was hacked back in 2014 and lost 12% of it's coins. See

http://www.coindesk.com/poloniex-loses-12-3-bitcoins-latest-bitcoin-exchange-hack/

But I haven't heard of any hacking since. After the original hack they raised their fees to make back the money. Fees have since gone down and they don't charge high exit fees either (which is a sign of trouble).

I can't find any information about whether they have raised any start-up capital (the reason exchanges like Coinbase and Kraken are safe is because they have a large amount of venture capital as a cushion, letting them ride out problems).

[spartak_t]

r0ach,

bl234st is right for one thing. Judging by your threads and posts, you are looking like a very negative person. I'm not blaming you, I'm just pointing to the facts...

http://www.coindesk.com/poloniex-loses-12-3-bitcoins-latest-bitcoin-exchange-hack/

I know about that one. This subject could be very controversial, because if some exchange make an announcement about a hack, it may scare a lot of people thus leading to its failure. I can say (in some way) that I see nothing wrong If they are indeed hacked and then quietly solved the problem, without going public. 

[alyssa85]

This subject could be very controversial, because if some exchange make an announcement about a hack, it may scare a lot of people thus leading to its failure. I can say (in some way) that I see nothing wrong If they are indeed hacked and then quietly solved the problem, without going public. 

Do they have any venture capital backing them? If they do, they are safe, because that money acts like a cushion if they are hacked. I googled but I couldn't find anything.

There are several ways to manage the risk of hacking if you are an exchange. Get insurance (lots of traditional banks get bespoke insurance against hacking from the Lloyds insurance market in the City of London - I'm surprised bitcoin exchanges haven't approached the underwriters there - they do all sorts of unusual insurance and would probably take on the risk for a fee). The second way is to raise a lot of venture capital, and use that money to compensate customers and keep trading in the event of a hack. The third is to set aside reserves - but I couldn't find out anything about Poloniex doing that either.

By contrast both Coinbase and Kraken have raised a lot of venture capital. According to the following article:

http://altcointrading.weebly.com/blog/signing-up-to-a-bitcoinaltcoin-exchange-read-this-first

Coinbase raised $106 million and Kraken $5 million.