2013-02-27 Rick Rule of Sprott Asset Mgmt Discusses Bitcoin

[sunnankar]

Who the hell are you? lol that's awesome!!!! Long discussion or a quickie, "I've got you for a moment" type deal?

Both discussions were 15+ minutes and very in-depth.

[odolvlobo]

I've been listening to Schiff for years and wholeheartedly agree about his ego and verbosity. I can get past his personality though because of his vast knowledge of the economy and his ability to explain its workings in a clear and simple way. He is brilliant. He has a broad knowledge base spanning macroeconomics, government policy, constitutional and American history, and technical analysis. He doesn't use notes or teleprompters and can debate anyone anytime. He got one of the Social Security trustee to admit it was a ponzi scheme for cryin' out loud (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITMEZImvNio). He also shows some humility and admits that he knows the endgame (a currency crisis) but finds it difficult to predict the endgame.

Honestly, I know "economic giant" seems a bit outlandish but who out there is any better?

Bernanke, of course! He's the guy that  saved  is saving  is going to save America from financial ruin.

[cypherdoc]

(I'm not exactly sure what are his issues with libertarians and anarcho-caplitalists... he seems to be talking in front of them and his nervousness indicates he feels a bit like as though he was in the lions den. Maybe someone can enlighten me)

He's 100% libertarian & anarcho-capitalist himself, very closely linked to Doug Casey and Paul Van Eeden and that crew.  But in his speeches & investment philosophy, particularly in the smallcap mining universe, he tries to be very contrarian, point out inconsistencies, debunk myths, and stir things up.  Kinda similar dynamic to a black comedian doing black jokes in front of a black audience.  That's why I like to follow him, he often presents a necessary opposing viewpoint in times of utter exuberance or utter pessimism in junior mining stocks.  Some of his "you're either a contrarian or a victim" philosophy I see as applicable to Bitcoin, given that some junior mining stocks have similar volatility & illiquidity as investing in Bitcoin, and the Canadian venture exchange is a den of hucksters somewhat similar to most lending ventures in the Bitcoin universe.

interesting you mention them:  http://talkdigitalnetwork.com/2013/02/future-of-canadian-venture-exchange-shaky/

i listen to Rule all the time in the car on KWN.  he's a stout gold/silver bull.  the shakeout in junior mining stocks must be gut wrenching for him.

[cypherdoc]

I thought you said you sorta scared Schiff in that he didn't want you to make him look like a fool. Schiff is pretty computer/tech illiterate but obviously an economic giant. Do you think he'll ever come around to understanding the value of BTC or is he too wedded to his PM busines?. Maybe you can get on his show (if you are who I think you are)  and discuss BTC now that it made a new all time high.

Now, you've gone too far. I'm a Peter Schiff fan, but I don't think he is anything close to an "economic giant". He knows his stuff and he is solidly grounded in the libertarian philosophy and Austrian economics, but his most important attribute is that he won't shut up . I think he is unfortunately somewhat blinded his ego, and he is going to miss something as a result of that blindness, and make a dumb mistake.

I've been listening to Schiff for years and wholeheartedly agree about his ego and verbosity. I can get past his personality though because of his vast knowledge of the economy and his ability to explain its workings in a clear and simple way. He is brilliant. He has a broad knowledge base spanning macroeconomics, government policy, constitutional and American history, and technical analysis. He doesn't use notes or teleprompters and can debate anyone anytime. He got one of the Social Security trustee to admit it was a ponzi scheme for cryin' out loud (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITMEZImvNio). He also shows some humility and admits that he knows the endgame (a currency crisis) but finds it difficult to predict the endgame.

Honestly, I know "economic giant" seems a bit outlandish but who out there is any better?

give me a break.  i used to like him too but he had a great opportunity with Bitcoin but totally missed it.  i think he's too invested in the gold/silver community to extract himself, much like all the others mentioned above:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTr_hTC90oQ

[cypherdoc]

In Taleb's Black Swan didn't he advocate for a lot of US Treasuries + lottery tickets? I can't recall for certain. If so, I think a gold + lottery ticket (ie. BTC) strategy might be a better strategy.

Exactly, he used US T-Bills as the example his "safe" component, but I suspect that by now he must've figured out they're immensely risky and, if anything, a black swan waiting to happen.  As you suggest, I use gold as my "safe" barbell component and BTC as one of my lottery tickets.

Using Taleb's terminology, Bitcoin is not just robust due to decentralized nature, but also antifragile, i.e. it gains from harm, since every single hack and scam and failed venture during the past few years, although the object of derision from simpletons, has made the whole ecosystem stronger and more robust.  Lack of bailouts and safety nets in Bitcoin guarantee that mistakes are learned from and overall ecosystem fitness increases over time.

Bitcoin is like a virus.  the blockchain is like its DNA.  we are the ribosomes that run up and down the blockchain and synthesize the proteins which make the system stronger.

[iCEBREAKER]

Bitcoin is like a virus.  the blockchain is like its DNA.  we are the ribosomes that run up and down the blockchain and synthesize the proteins which make the system stronger.

Bitcoin is a 4D printer, self-assembling a new monetary regime using excess energy left over from the inefficient burning trash heap of Fiat Ben Fun Bux.

[xcsler]

I thought you said you sorta scared Schiff in that he didn't want you to make him look like a fool. Schiff is pretty computer/tech illiterate but obviously an economic giant. Do you think he'll ever come around to understanding the value of BTC or is he too wedded to his PM busines?. Maybe you can get on his show (if you are who I think you are)  and discuss BTC now that it made a new all time high.

Now, you've gone too far. I'm a Peter Schiff fan, but I don't think he is anything close to an "economic giant". He knows his stuff and he is solidly grounded in the libertarian philosophy and Austrian economics, but his most important attribute is that he won't shut up . I think he is unfortunately somewhat blinded his ego, and he is going to miss something as a result of that blindness, and make a dumb mistake.

I've been listening to Schiff for years and wholeheartedly agree about his ego and verbosity. I can get past his personality though because of his vast knowledge of the economy and his ability to explain its workings in a clear and simple way. He is brilliant. He has a broad knowledge base spanning macroeconomics, government policy, constitutional and American history, and technical analysis. He doesn't use notes or teleprompters and can debate anyone anytime. He got one of the Social Security trustee to admit it was a ponzi scheme for cryin' out loud (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITMEZImvNio). He also shows some humility and admits that he knows the endgame (a currency crisis) but finds it difficult to predict the endgame.

Honestly, I know "economic giant" seems a bit outlandish but who out there is any better?

give me a break.  i used to like him too but he had a great opportunity with Bitcoin but totally missed it.  i think he's too invested in the gold/silver community to extract himself, much like all the others mentioned above:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTr_hTC90oQ

Schiff is tech illiterate and therefore I can't blame him for being skeptical and not on board yet. I called into his show a few weeks ago to try and sell him on BTC but to no avail. Just because he doesn't accept BTC yet doesn't negate everything else he has done in the economic realm. Which other economists out there do you think are better?

[420]

funny FMT just released an interview today with him and I think they didn't mention bitcoin at all. (they had a bitcoin report a month or two back for paid members)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taVcsxZeNqI

[cypherdoc]

funny FMT just released an interview today with him and I think they didn't mention bitcoin at all. (they had a bitcoin report a month or two back for paid members)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taVcsxZeNqI

you don't hear James Turk mentioning it all in any of the many interviews he's given since interviewing Felix de la Cova either.  they are fighting it.  and no wonder, they are all deeply entwined in the gold trade.

[420]

funny FMT just released an interview today with him and I think they didn't mention bitcoin at all. (they had a bitcoin report a month or two back for paid members)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taVcsxZeNqI

you don't hear James Turk mentioning it all in any of the many interviews he's given since interviewing Felix de la Cova either.  they are fighting it.  and no wonder, they are all deeply entwined in the gold trade.

and/or a 350million market cap and steady bull market doesn't have much appeal for rick rule

[cypherdoc]

I thought you said you sorta scared Schiff in that he didn't want you to make him look like a fool. Schiff is pretty computer/tech illiterate but obviously an economic giant. Do you think he'll ever come around to understanding the value of BTC or is he too wedded to his PM busines?. Maybe you can get on his show (if you are who I think you are)  and discuss BTC now that it made a new all time high.

Now, you've gone too far. I'm a Peter Schiff fan, but I don't think he is anything close to an "economic giant". He knows his stuff and he is solidly grounded in the libertarian philosophy and Austrian economics, but his most important attribute is that he won't shut up . I think he is unfortunately somewhat blinded his ego, and he is going to miss something as a result of that blindness, and make a dumb mistake.

I've been listening to Schiff for years and wholeheartedly agree about his ego and verbosity. I can get past his personality though because of his vast knowledge of the economy and his ability to explain its workings in a clear and simple way. He is brilliant. He has a broad knowledge base spanning macroeconomics, government policy, constitutional and American history, and technical analysis. He doesn't use notes or teleprompters and can debate anyone anytime. He got one of the Social Security trustee to admit it was a ponzi scheme for cryin' out loud (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITMEZImvNio). He also shows some humility and admits that he knows the endgame (a currency crisis) but finds it difficult to predict the endgame.

Honestly, I know "economic giant" seems a bit outlandish but who out there is any better?

give me a break.  i used to like him too but he had a great opportunity with Bitcoin but totally missed it.  i think he's too invested in the gold/silver community to extract himself, much like all the others mentioned above:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTr_hTC90oQ

Schiff is tech illiterate and therefore I can't blame him for being skeptical and not on board yet. I called into his show a few weeks ago to try and sell him on BTC but to no avail. Just because he doesn't accept BTC yet doesn't negate everything else he has done in the economic realm. Which other economists out there do you think are better?

Schiff is not an economist.  he's a money manager. 

who do i consider better?  any economist who takes Bitcoin seriously and i don't believe i really know of any except for George Selgin.

otherwise most economists who think like Austrians believe solely in gold.  this is an idea i have been fighting for a long while now.

[cypherdoc]

funny FMT just released an interview today with him and I think they didn't mention bitcoin at all. (they had a bitcoin report a month or two back for paid members)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taVcsxZeNqI

you don't hear James Turk mentioning it all in any of the many interviews he's given since interviewing Felix de la Cova either.  they are fighting it.  and no wonder, they are all deeply entwined in the gold trade.

and/or a 350million market cap and steady bull market doesn't have much appeal for rick rule

that's too bad for him; this is precisely the type of market he should be looking to frontrun.

[420]

Yeah if we were to get these guys on board, it would be massive, they are also great salesmen.  As the goldbug community gets converted, Sprott will also fall in line, I'm sure.  Rick Rule is one of the smartest/erudite/successful goldbugs on the planet, his position on Bitcoin has and will evolve just like it's starting to do with the Mises guys and James Turk.

Great video. I had a pretty in-depth discussion with Rick Rule, along with a separate discussion with Peter Schiff, and others, last Saturday at the investment conference in Palm Springs. Great to see this coming along.

I thought you said you sorta scared Schiff in that he didn't want you to make him look like a fool. Schiff is pretty computer/tech illiterate but obviously an economic giant. Do you think he'll ever come around to understanding the value of BTC or is he too wedded to his PM busines?. Maybe you can get on his show (if you are who I think you are)  and discuss BTC now that it made a new all time high.

we don't need schiff. he can miss the train

[cypherdoc]

Yeah if we were to get these guys on board, it would be massive, they are also great salesmen.  As the goldbug community gets converted, Sprott will also fall in line, I'm sure.  Rick Rule is one of the smartest/erudite/successful goldbugs on the planet, his position on Bitcoin has and will evolve just like it's starting to do with the Mises guys and James Turk.

Great video. I had a pretty in-depth discussion with Rick Rule, along with a separate discussion with Peter Schiff, and others, last Saturday at the investment conference in Palm Springs. Great to see this coming along.

I thought you said you sorta scared Schiff in that he didn't want you to make him look like a fool. Schiff is pretty computer/tech illiterate but obviously an economic giant. Do you think he'll ever come around to understanding the value of BTC or is he too wedded to his PM busines?. Maybe you can get on his show (if you are who I think you are)  and discuss BTC now that it made a new all time high.

we don't need schiff. he can miss the train

choo choo 

[xcsler]

Yeah if we were to get these guys on board, it would be massive, they are also great salesmen.  As the goldbug community gets converted, Sprott will also fall in line, I'm sure.  Rick Rule is one of the smartest/erudite/successful goldbugs on the planet, his position on Bitcoin has and will evolve just like it's starting to do with the Mises guys and James Turk.

Great video. I had a pretty in-depth discussion with Rick Rule, along with a separate discussion with Peter Schiff, and others, last Saturday at the investment conference in Palm Springs. Great to see this coming along.

I thought you said you sorta scared Schiff in that he didn't want you to make him look like a fool. Schiff is pretty computer/tech illiterate but obviously an economic giant. Do you think he'll ever come around to understanding the value of BTC or is he too wedded to his PM busines?. Maybe you can get on his show (if you are who I think you are)  and discuss BTC now that it made a new all time high.

we don't need schiff. he can miss the train

At this point the more we have the better.

[420]

Yeah if we were to get these guys on board, it would be massive, they are also great salesmen.  As the goldbug community gets converted, Sprott will also fall in line, I'm sure.  Rick Rule is one of the smartest/erudite/successful goldbugs on the planet, his position on Bitcoin has and will evolve just like it's starting to do with the Mises guys and James Turk.

Great video. I had a pretty in-depth discussion with Rick Rule, along with a separate discussion with Peter Schiff, and others, last Saturday at the investment conference in Palm Springs. Great to see this coming along.

I thought you said you sorta scared Schiff in that he didn't want you to make him look like a fool. Schiff is pretty computer/tech illiterate but obviously an economic giant. Do you think he'll ever come around to understanding the value of BTC or is he too wedded to his PM busines?. Maybe you can get on his show (if you are who I think you are)  and discuss BTC now that it made a new all time high.

we don't need schiff. he can miss the train

At this point the more we have the better.

the more people missing the train or the more people on the bitcoin train? This isn't 2010 or 2011; bitcoin is here to stay.

[molecular]

funny FMT just released an interview today with him and I think they didn't mention bitcoin at all. (they had a bitcoin report a month or two back for paid members)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taVcsxZeNqI

you don't hear James Turk mentioning it all in any of the many interviews he's given since interviewing Felix de la Cova either.  they are fighting it.  and no wonder, they are all deeply entwined in the gold trade.

Sometimes I wonder if they are acquiring. If they really thought bitcoin was a good idea... would they blurt it out to their sheeple right away? I'm not sure... these people seem to often make a point about being transparent and not front-running their customers and all that, but hell: with bitcoin, who would even be able to notice?

[molecular]

funny FMT just released an interview today with him and I think they didn't mention bitcoin at all. (they had a bitcoin report a month or two back for paid members)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taVcsxZeNqI

you don't hear James Turk mentioning it all in any of the many interviews he's given since interviewing Felix de la Cova either.  they are fighting it.  and no wonder, they are all deeply entwined in the gold trade.

and/or a 350million market cap and steady bull market doesn't have much appeal for rick rule

why not? He seems to love 100-baggers.

[molecular]

funny FMT just released an interview today with him and I think they didn't mention bitcoin at all. (they had a bitcoin report a month or two back for paid members)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taVcsxZeNqI

you don't hear James Turk mentioning it all in any of the many interviews he's given since interviewing Felix de la Cova either.  they are fighting it.  and no wonder, they are all deeply entwined in the gold trade.

and/or a 350million market cap and steady bull market doesn't have much appeal for rick rule

that's too bad for him; this is precisely the type of market he should be looking to frontrun.

exactly!

[molecular]

the more people missing the train or the more people on the bitcoin train? This isn't 2010 or 2011; bitcoin is here to stay.

If all works out as planned, noone will have missed the train in the end. The question is just how fast you need to run to hop on and wether or not you get a nice seat in the dining car.