US and Canadian users no longer allowed to use MtGox directly?

[repentance]

One thing this might do is bring larger players to the Bitcoin market - people and groups who can drop tens of millions into the Bitcoin market just because.  Eventually that has to happen for Bitcoin to mature, even if it's going to make the average Bitcoiner feel like they're eventually going to be locked out of the market unless they use managed funds or other types of pass-through.

There still is an increase in the delay before money ends on the exchange i would think?

I would think that the money only need to reach CoinLab, which should be much quicker as it's a domestic transaction.

[1714609547]

1714609547

[evolve]

It's also possible that institutional investors/large players would just increase the already ridiculous amount of volatility.  It could mature the market, or it could drive it into the ground quicker.

[repentance]

It's also possible that institutional investors/large players would just increase the already ridiculous amount of volatility.  It could mature the market, or it could drive it into the ground quicker.

Either way, it's something which has to happen sooner or later.  Any bored trust fund kid could play with the market just for shit and giggles right now.  It's something would please some users and horrify others - and spawn endless "the point of Bitcoin is..." debates.

This is just another thing which Bitcoin is going to have to weather if it's going to survive in the long term.

[Luno]

I was talking about the openness of the market for the not connected trader. but ofcourse, we can't have it both ways. Market manipulation and insider trading is still not legal if Gox is allowed to keep it's role as the leading exchange.

Immature was better than this, at the same time I'm quite also estatic about this. Strange feeling.

So now we know what's been going on since $5-7 ?

[evolve]

Either way, it's something which has to happen sooner or later. 

True.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Remember when Bitcoinica was transferred to Intersango? 

Yes ... this is around the time the Mt. Gox (US/Canadian accounts only strangely) gets a massive hack and Coinlab is non the wiser wtf just happened ....

... got the stench of regulatory and FACTA bots crawling around in the background I'm afraid ... seem to vaguely recall Coinlab has some hook-up with the "Foundation" doesn't it?

[repentance]

People are probably unaware of the requirements the US is placing on foreign banks.

FATCA has three main parts:

-It requires foreign banks and financial entities to find any American account holders and disclose their balances, receipts, and withdrawals to the US Internal Revenue Service (IRS), or be subject to a 30% withholding tax on income from US financial assets held by the banks or financial entities.[1][2]

- Owners of these foreign-held assets must report them on a new Form 8938 along with US tax returns if they are worth more than US$50,000; a higher reporting threshold applies to overseas residents.[3] Account holders would be subject to a 40% penalty on understatements of income in an undisclosed foreign financial asset.[1]

- It closes a tax loophole that investors had used to avoid paying any taxes on dividends by converting them into dividend equivalents.[4]
The reporting requirements are in addition to reporting of foreign financial assets to the US Treasury Department,[5] particularly the "Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts" (FBAR) for foreign financial accounts exceeding US$10,000 required under Bank Secrecy Act regulations issued by the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN).[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance_Act

France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and the United Kingdom have consented to cooperate with the U.S. on FATCA implementation,[26][27] as have Switzerland and Japan.[28]

It's just too much of a hassle for foreign banks to fuck around with this shit and some of them have decided not to play.

As a result of FATCA, European banks such as Deutsche Bank, Commerzbank, HSBC, ING Group and Credit Suisse have been closing brokerage accounts for all US customers since early 2011, citing "onerous" US regulations, which FATCA will make more complex when it goes into effect in 2013.[12][13]

[evolve]

I actually had this happen to my online stock brokerage. I use Sharebuilder, which up until fairly recently, was owned by ING (now it's owned by Capital One).

I was wondering why it got sold off.

[repentance]

I wonder if they'll eventually do the same with their Euro customers.  They've had problem after problem servicing the European market, so giving someone else the headache for a percentage of the turnover has to look attractive.

[Anth0n]

Is this the reason for the change in ownership?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance_Act

[MPOE-PR]

http://coinlab.com/new-transition

What, exactly is happening?
Right now Mt. Gox keeps US and Canadian customer funds in Japan and Europe, mostly. CoinLab is going to take over servicing those accounts, and move them to Silicon Valley Bank in the US.

When that happens, if your'e a Mt. Gox customer, you will be transitioned to CoinLab as your primary exchange relationship. We'll provide the liquidity for your US or Canadian-based business.

What if I don't want to be a CoinLab customer? Can I stay with Mt. Gox if I'm in the US or Canada?
We'll miss you, but you can always leave us. If you are in the US/Canada, you can't stick with Mt. Gox, though. Part of our agreement with Mt. Gox is super-strict about locale: Mt. Gox really wants to be 100% out of the US/Canada market.

What if I'm in Europe and want to be a CoinLab customer?
Awww, how sweet! While we can offer storage, consulting and super-compute services to you, we can't offer exchange or liquidity services -- but you can always sign up with Mt. Gox and get access to the same liquidity pool.

How secure is your setup?
It's pretty secure; it beats, by a significant margin, all other known US bitcoin security practices. Mt. Gox has also reviewed the procedures and indicated they are comfortable with them. Before we launch, we'll detail what we're doing on the security side so you can check in, but you can read a bit about at storage right now.

This is bullshit.

It's all bullshit, and pretty cheeky bullshit at that, considering the source. Basically the equivalent would be some failed venture publishing on its website a piece about how if you are in the US or Canada you shouldn't send SatoshiDice your coins, you should send it to them instead. Riiight....

Basically coincrap needs a scammer tag already. They won't likely get it, but using them past this point is setting yourself up for some pain down the road.

[ArticMine]

Some questions from the perspective of a Canadian MtGox customer.

1 ) What is the location of the assets held BTC and fiat held by MtGox on behalf of the customer Japan or the United States?
2 ) What is the location for tax purposes where the trades take place Japan or the United States. Furthermore which tax treaty will apply to the business relationship that between Canada and Japan or that between Canada and the United States?
3 ) Which country's privacy laws apply to personal information of the customer Japan or the United States?
4 ) Will the customer be required to change banking information for withdrawals already on file with MtGox?
5 ) Will a Canadian customer be able to continue to receive funds in US dollars into a US Dollar account with a Canadian bank?
6 ) Will the customer be required to provide an IRS form W-8?
7 ) Will withdrawal limits change as a result of this for Trusted and Verified customers?
8 ) Will there be any restrictions as a result of this for logging into MtGox by Trusted or Verified customers from outside of Canada and the United States for example while travelling?
9 ) Will USD on deposit benefit from FDIC pass through insurance?

[ArticMine]

People are probably unaware of the requirements the US is placing on foreign banks.

FATCA has three main parts:

-It requires foreign banks and financial entities to find any American account holders and disclose their balances, receipts, and withdrawals to the US Internal Revenue Service (IRS), or be subject to a 30% withholding tax on income from US financial assets held by the banks or financial entities.[1][2]

- Owners of these foreign-held assets must report them on a new Form 8938 along with US tax returns if they are worth more than US$50,000; a higher reporting threshold applies to overseas residents.[3] Account holders would be subject to a 40% penalty on understatements of income in an undisclosed foreign financial asset.[1]

- It closes a tax loophole that investors had used to avoid paying any taxes on dividends by converting them into dividend equivalents.[4]
The reporting requirements are in addition to reporting of foreign financial assets to the US Treasury Department,[5] particularly the "Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts" (FBAR) for foreign financial accounts exceeding US$10,000 required under Bank Secrecy Act regulations issued by the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN).[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance_Act

France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and the United Kingdom have consented to cooperate with the U.S. on FATCA implementation,[26][27] as have Switzerland and Japan.[28]

It's just too much of a hassle for foreign banks to fuck around with this shit and some of them have decided not to play.

As a result of FATCA, European banks such as Deutsche Bank, Commerzbank, HSBC, ING Group and Credit Suisse have been closing brokerage accounts for all US customers since early 2011, citing "onerous" US regulations, which FATCA will make more complex when it goes into effect in 2013.[12][13]

FATCA is likely one of the reasons behind this move. But why bring Canadians into this because of a US law that does not apply to them?

[repentance]

FATCA is likely one of the reasons behind this move. But why bring Canadians into this because of a US law that does not apply to them?

There may be some other trade agreement which sweeps Canada under similar provisions or they may be on the brink of entering this agreement.

From a practical point of view, if you're already establishing a US base of operations it's probably easier to service Canadian customers from there even if there's no compelling legal reason to do so.

[ArticMine]

FATCA is likely one of the reasons behind this move. But why bring Canadians into this because of a US law that does not apply to them?

There may be some other trade agreement which sweeps Canada under similar provisions or they may be on the brink of entering this agreement.

From a practical point of view, if you're already establishing a US base of operations it's probably easier to service Canadian customers from there even if there's no compelling legal reason to do so.

The tax reporting requirements and thresholds for Canadians (CRA) and Americans (IRS) for foreign assets are very different. For starters the Canadian requirement is for more then 100000 CDN based of cost, while the US requirement is for more than 10000 USD. A factor of 10 or more in difference. http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/cmmn/frgn/1135-eng.html.  As for creating a US nexus in a business relationship between a company in Japan and their customer in Canada this can actually complicate things a lot. This is why I asked a series of questions in my previous post.

One should not be applying US tax laws to Canadians doing business with a company in Japan.

[imanikin]

I can't decide if this is extremely good or extremely bad.
Either way, I'm going to continue staying the hell away.

My guess is "extremely bad", and suggests *.gov.us

It will be much easier for .gov to track us money flow to/from MtG if it were funneling through one central point, rather than Anybankwire, USA.

Karpeles knows who is who in the B world, and could get someone to help him if he were overloaded the same way he found his first employee, that guy we used to see in the videos after the 611 crash. He could probably graduate to midlevel mgmt by now, if still there.

I hope ripple builds up their xchange infrastructure asap, so that most of these centralized xchanges become second tier, or go away with the banks.

[sublime5447]

This is sketch, but exchanges are sketch. It completely negates the purpose of BTC. All that is happening is new financial institutions are being built.
You guys lap it up. The centralization, the fee's, the BTC banks, whole thing sucks. So much for P2P. I guess people would rather trust institutions than one another. 

[imanikin]

This is sketch, but exchanges are sketch. It completely negates the purpose of BTC. All that is happening is new financial institutions are being built.
You guys lap it up. The centralization, the fee's, the BTC banks, whole thing sucks. So much for P2P. I guess people would rather trust institutions than one another. 

+1 However, we still have localbitcoins, Ripple is ramping up, OpenTransaction Server is in the works. I am sure there will be other options.

The people who just can't let go of the banks and the wall street ways of doing money can stick with it, if they want to continue putting up with the new version of the same BS that you mentioned.

Let's support the Ripple group and localbitcoins! That seems to be our best course for now.

[justusranvier]

A venture capitalist backed Bitcoin company wants to make it safe for U.S. and Canadian investors to do large block trades of Bitcoins and keep them ultra-secure from loss. Coinlab has worked for a year to sign an exclusive long term deal with Bitcoin exchange Mt.Gox. The Silicon Valley-based company will take over exchange transactions for all U.S. and Canada clients meaning your money will get moved to a U.S. bank and Coinlab will now be the clearing pool for all peer-to-peer transaction on the Mt.Gox exchange. The safeguards they have set up is a move to drive more U.S. volume in Bitcoins along with paving a way for institutional investors and high net-worth individuals to buy and hold large amounts of the digital currency.

CALPERS?

[Herodes]

It's pretty secure; it beats, by a significant margin, all other known US bitcoin security practices.

What's the point of bragging like this ? I get Bitcoin Consultancy vibes all over again. I think Coinlab should tone down their advertising a little bit. It's like a 7-year old boy hopping up and down waiting for ice cream.