S9? LOL

[VirosaGITS]

I understand that and I was not speaking on any random GPU coin. I was talking about ETH because it is the flavor of the month and people are seeing $$$. I was just pointing out that ETH mining is unsustainable. You can always go back to X11 mining and make money but with much smaller margins.

Well sure, but ASIC is also unsustainable, you need to keep upgrading and or have extremely low electric costs. The difference is if shit happens, the GPUs are still worth something. Meanwhile S7's are now cheaper than the S5's were months ago.

The only thing is ROI% at the end of the year to me, everything else seem moot to me.

Having both ASIC and GPU, its pretty easy for me to compare.

Overall it seem GPU is always more $/W. But often more $/Hash. Also the GPUs i bought 250$ in 2014 still sell for 200$~

[Amph]

Why do you stop yourself at one frame of an entire movie ?

My trust is in Bitcoin, not the altcoin.

We shall see in future what ETH will do but those kind of comparisons based on speculation and this title is pretty much a joke.

If you don't want to mine Bitcoin anymore why don't you move your irony in the Alt coins section ?

For now ETH mining is great, will it last long or do better in the long term then BTC ?

That's the real question you have to ask yourself.

i also trust bitcoin more, and this is the reaosn why i dump etheruem for bitcoin

here we are talking about the fact that asic are useless now that you can make more bitcoin with gpu buy mining something else

You all realize that ETH is shifting from PoW to PoS when Serenity drops right? Its not like you will be able to mine ETH for years so comparing it to mining BTC in the long run seems kind of silly.

Its not silly, when you get to ROI 500% before then vs not break even for ASIC. Also GPU != Eth. There is other very profitable options out there.

no there aren't currently, unless you talk about those random alt that pop out from time to time and are more profitable for 1 day

[usenet]

I am interested in Eth. For now, I'm focused mainly on the BTC. But after the last increase on Eth I see here a lot of opportunities.
It might be worthwhile to ask whether Eth convert on BTC on whether Fiat money? What are you doing?

[Goms]

Why do you stop yourself at one frame of an entire movie ?

My trust is in Bitcoin, not the altcoin.

We shall see in future what ETH will do but those kind of comparisons based on speculation and this title is pretty much a joke.

If you don't want to mine Bitcoin anymore why don't you move your irony in the Alt coins section ?

For now ETH mining is great, will it last long or do better in the long term then BTC ?

That's the real question you have to ask yourself.

You never know, etherum might just be the competitor that btc needs.

Look at it this way, btc mining becomes more difficult as times progresses, miners are going to need an alternative source of income so they mine both btc and eth!

[QuintLeo]

You all realize that ETH is shifting from PoW to PoS when Serenity drops right? Its not like you will be able to mine ETH for years so comparing it to mining BTC in the long run seems kind of silly.

Its not silly, when you get to ROI 500% before then vs not break even for ASIC. Also GPU != Eth. There is other very profitable options out there.

 Very profitable, no - but there are a few profitable non-ETH GPU mining options out there if your electric is cheap enough.

 I wouldn't count on X11, there IS an existing ASIC for it (might be 2 but I still haven't seen a REPUTABLE confirmation of existance on the second one) and they'll start selling more of them eventually (dualminer is still "out of stock" for now though).
 X11 at least scales well on the "bigger" cards - it's sad that Ethereum doesn't scale for beans on stuff like the Nano and the >GTX960 cards.



 ASIC for Bitcoin is probably going to become longer-term sustainable as it will be the LAST "node upgrade generation" for a while - but it's still going to be dependent on your electric price, just like ANY cryptocoin mining is very dependent on electric price cost.

[adaseb]

Bitmain will really need to competitively price their S9 to get people to actually buy them?

I really don't understand why people right now would buy BTC Miners when they can get a GPU.

[fanatic26]

You never know, etherum might just be the competitor that btc needs.

Look at it this way, btc mining becomes more difficult as times progresses, miners are going to need an alternative source of income so they mine both btc and eth!

Maybe do some research on ethereum. ETH mining is done before the year is over. It is switching from PoW to PoS meaning there is no more mining. How exactly can it compete with bitcoin?

[fanatic26]

Bitmain will really need to competitively price their S9 to get people to actually buy them?

I really don't understand why people right now would buy BTC Miners when they can get a GPU.

It also really depends on the chips in the S9. The 14/16 nanometer chips represent the best thats possible with current tech and chances are any miners with that tech will be all thats available for the next 2-3 years. ASIC manufacturers have been playing catch up since the beginning but right now Intel is just putting out 14nm chips. ASIC manufacturers are not magically gonna pass Intel in the chip building game and pull some 8nm tech out their ass in 18 months. So if you buy a 14nm S9 you are buying a miner you wont replace for years, which hasnt been the case in this industry until now.

[philipma1957]

You never know, etherum might just be the competitor that btc needs.

Look at it this way, btc mining becomes more difficult as times progresses, miners are going to need an alternative source of income so they mine both btc and eth!

Maybe do some research on ethereum. ETH mining is done before the year is over. It is switching from PoW to PoS meaning there is no more mining. How exactly can it compete with bitcoin?

It does for the next 6 to 9 months as no asics will be mining them.

If it is disposable plan for it.

BTC the highway ,bridge and tunnel

ETH the taxi I drive to make my money.

  My taxi won't last I plan for that.   How?

 I mine it and hold ⅓ sell ⅓ for fiat sell ⅓ for btc.

The closer I get to  PoS I change my ratio of holdings.

[Amph]

Bitmain will really need to competitively price their S9 to get people to actually buy them?

I really don't understand why people right now would buy BTC Miners when they can get a GPU.

well buying now new gpu it's truly a bad time, because new one are coming, and you must understand that those big chinese farm don't buy asic, they directly produce them, and i can assume that they will cost less in this way

[QuintLeo]

ETH last words I saw is good to somewhere in 2017 (date uncertain) when it goes POS.
They were ORIGINALLY talking POS in 2016, but appear to have delayed the planned date due to developmental delays/issues of some sort and decided they needed more time to get the issues sorted out.


 Intel is actually doing 10nm in their lab - they've had 14nm in production for a while (Skylake).

 Nvidia is releasing their first 14/16nm gear this month
 (I forget for sure but I think they said somewhere that they had qualified or were working to qualify the GTX 1080 and 1070 on both Global Foundries AND on TSMC processes).

 AMD is talking very late this year or early 2017 for their initial 14/16nm releases.

 IIRC Samsung was the first "big" manufacturer to release products at that node - portable gear like Smartphones NEED the power efficiency of the smaller node more than anything else.

[QuintLeo]

Decided to update from my last S7? LOL thread in light of todays huge ETH price gain.

This is assuming revenues after the halving, since that is the most accurate  Antminer S9 delivery date. Price and Specs are what some people predicted in the other thread.

I know the revenue for the GPU isn't accurate in 2 months but the price can also appreciate making the same daily revenue constant

 Perhaps quote the R9 280 (Newegg has them on sale right now) - claiming 30 MH at 300 watts for almost identical up-front cost.


 *HOWEVER*

 It's not a fair comparison to just quote the cost of the CARD vs the cost of a complete ASIC - a FAIR comparison would be "cost of a multi-card system" vs that "ASIC system".

[BitMaxz]

Looks like its more efficient to use gpu to mine ethereum even they release antminer s9
Also gpu mining is less power consumption than antminer s9. But i think ethereum difficulty increases these days because more people are choosing to mined ethereum...

[philipma1957]

Looks like its more efficient to use gpu to mine ethereum even they release antminer s9
Also gpu mining is less power consumption than antminer s9. But i think ethereum difficulty increases these days because more people are choosing to mined ethereum...

I mine 210mh with 1800 watts.  I will round up to 50 kwatts a day at 17 cent summer power cost   that is 8.50 usd a day x 30 = 255 usd a month I will round up to 260 usd a month in power cost. I earn eth  27 usd a day or 810 usd a month.

net for 1800 watts is  550 usd


I have 28 th in s-7 + avalon 6  my deal is ½ the coins for free power.  so I have 14th with 0 power cost   that  is about  950 a month for the 28th

of which I get 475 a month.

so  550 a month  with 17 cent power  vs 475 a month with free power

the eth gear was about  4000 usd. resale right now is around 3200

the asic gear was about 8000 usd. resale right now is around 3000

In a month who knows but right now eth coin looks better.

[ps_jb]

Looks like its more efficient to use gpu to mine ethereum even they release antminer s9
Also gpu mining is less power consumption than antminer s9. But i think ethereum difficulty increases these days because more people are choosing to mined ethereum...

I mine 210mh with 1800 watts.  I will round up to 50 kwatts a day at 17 cent summer power cost   that is 8.50 usd a day x 30 = 255 usd a month I will round up to 260 usd a month in power cost. I earn eth  27 usd a day or 810 usd a month.

net for 1800 watts is  550 usd


I have 28 th in s-7 + avalon 6  my deal is ½ the coins for free power.  so I have 14th with 0 power cost   that  is about  950 a month for the 28th

of which I get 475 a month.

so  550 a month  with 17 cent power  vs 475 a month with free power

the eth gear was about  4000 usd. resale right now is around 3200

the asic gear was about 8000 usd. resale right now is around 3000

In a month who knows but right now eth coin looks better.

Nice math - thank you!

[Amph]

Looks like its more efficient to use gpu to mine ethereum even they release antminer s9
Also gpu mining is less power consumption than antminer s9. But i think ethereum difficulty increases these days because more people are choosing to mined ethereum...

I mine 210mh with 1800 watts.  I will round up to 50 kwatts a day at 17 cent summer power cost   that is 8.50 usd a day x 30 = 255 usd a month I will round up to 260 usd a month in power cost. I earn eth  27 usd a day or 810 usd a month.

net for 1800 watts is  550 usd


I have 28 th in s-7 + avalon 6  my deal is ½ the coins for free power.  so I have 14th with 0 power cost   that  is about  950 a month for the 28th

of which I get 475 a month.

so  550 a month  with 17 cent power  vs 475 a month with free power

the eth gear was about  4000 usd. resale right now is around 3200

the asic gear was about 8000 usd. resale right now is around 3000

In a month who knows but right now eth coin looks better.

you can try to undervolt a bit, because i'm doing 66MH for 500w, so 210 would be around 1500w only instead of 1800w

you can save 16% in electricity, pretty big

[QuintLeo]

I'm not quite as big as Phil.

 My numbers are (right now) electric rate at almost exactly 7 cents/kwh 'till middle of June (by which point I hope to be in process of moving, to a land of VERY VERY CHEAP electric). Base rate goes way down after the first couple thousand KWH, but "transportation fee" and "energy cost surchage" actually cost me MORE than the bloody base rate.


 Appx. $3700 invested into my A2 LTC farm, a fair bit of that is paid off already. Been earning 4+ LTC a day reliably, the last couple weeks closer to 4.5 - most of that time with LTC in the 3.25 ballpark but the recent runup pushed it close to $4.
 Power usage total (at the wall, measured) right at 5200 watts, so appx. $8.50 in electric usage per day for that farm - consistant 9 months of the year (I've not owned the A2s quite that long).

 Long-time numbers look like $13ish a day earned for a net of about $4.50, last couple week numbers $16-$18 a day earned for a net of $7.50-$9.50 a day.


 Eth farm - I have $80 invested, the rest of the hardware I already had or was in process of buying for other intended usage when I started working on Ethereum.

 Ballpark 80Mh total - most of the time that worked out to about .8 ETH/day or ballpark $8/day earned - recent has been more like $10/day earned with the price runup.
 Ballpark 1400 watts used (and this is nothing CLOSE to an optimised setup), so under $2.5/day.

 Net $5.5 a day most of the month, up to $7.5 a day - and if I count what I paid for this gear NEW, then subtract out how much I net earned on some of it mining Litecoin and DarkCoin/Dash, I estimate the TOTAL cost of the gear to be a little over $2000.


 I priced out a 2-card rig on Newegg this past week - fairly conservative estimate 48MH/s (I don't trust most of the posted MH figures, they seem to be fairly old and bigger DAG files slow cards down) at a little over $1000, would earn ballpark .48ETH/day or $6ish right now on an electric cost of ballpark $1.20/day
 I had the ROI figured on more exact "current" figures at 255 days.

 I did the same on a 1-card and on a 4-card rig (3 cards takes an EXPEN$IVE motherboard to get proper spacing, or you end up crowding one card on any 3-slot-only board).
 The 4-card rig was deliberatly designed using blower-type cards for heat management.
 ROI worked out to higher on the 1-card rig despite being able to go VERY cheap on MB/RAM and such (mini-ITC AMD A1 slot stuff, but gold power supplies don't EXIST below about 450 watts so couldn't get REAL cheap there).
 4-card rig ROI worked out to be 254 days, but most likely the cards wouldn't be able to be pushed as hard as in the 2-card rig so I suspect the ACTUAL ROI would be a bit longer.

 VERY VERY iffy on being able to achieve ROI, as the current price bump isn't looking real stable, hashrate is GUARENTTEED to drop over time as the DAG file keeps growing, I just couldn't justify building a complete rig out of NEW parts for ETH mining.

 I can *mabye* justify it on the basis of "mine ETH to recoup some of the cost, the do my other stuff afterwards" if I set it up with NVidia cards instead of the AMD ones I specified - but then it earns less ETH and probably becomes unprofitable sooner, or fails to achieve ROI before ETH goes POS, so I'd have to justify such a rig on the basis of "going to buy it ANYWAY" not on "I can pay for this with reasonable confidence before ETH goes POS/unprofitable".



 Still, for the short term for those of us with hardware that CAN mine ETH already on hand (or MOST of the parts already on hand), ETH is certainly a good option over a mythical miner that might not show up for several months IF ever.


 I've not looked into undervolting my GPUs yet - PrecisionX won't let me undervolt my NVidia cards (and research indicates I'd need to mod the BIOS on them voiding the warrenttee), and I've not looked hard at undervolting the AMD cards yet (I know the tools exist, just haven't had time to dig up the right ones yet).

[Biodom]

I'm not quite as big as Phil.

 I priced out a 2-card rig on Newegg this past week - fairly conservative estimate 48MH/s (I don't trust most of the posted MH figures, they seem to be fairly old and bigger DAG files slow cards down) at a little over $1000, would earn ballpark .48ETH/day or $6ish right now on an electric cost of ballpark $1.20/day
 I had the ROI figured on more exact "current" figures at 255 days.

 I did the same on a 1-card and on a 4-card rig (3 cards takes an EXPEN$IVE motherboard to get proper spacing, or you end up crowding one card on any 3-slot-only board).
 The 4-card rig was deliberatly designed using blower-type cards for heat management.
 ROI worked out to higher on the 1-card rig despite being able to go VERY cheap on MB/RAM and such (mini-ITC AMD A1 slot stuff, but gold power supplies don't EXIST below about 450 watts so couldn't get REAL cheap there).
 4-card rig ROI worked out to be 254 days, but most likely the cards wouldn't be able to be pushed as hard as in the 2-card rig so I suspect the ACTUAL ROI would be a bit longer.

 VERY VERY iffy on being able to achieve ROI, as the current price bump isn't looking real stable, hashrate is GUARENTTEED to drop over time as the DAG file keeps growing, I just couldn't justify building a complete rig out of NEW parts for ETH mining.

 I can *mabye* justify it on the basis of "mine ETH to recoup some of the cost, the do my other stuff afterwards" if I set it up with NVidia cards instead of the AMD ones I specified - but then it earns less ETH and probably becomes unprofitable sooner, or fails to achieve ROI before ETH goes POS, so I'd have to justify such a rig on the basis of "going to buy it ANYWAY" not on "I can pay for this with reasonable confidence before ETH goes POS/unprofitable".



 Still, for the short term for those of us with hardware that CAN mine ETH already on hand (or MOST of the parts already on hand), ETH is certainly a good option over a mythical miner that might not show up for several months IF ever.


 I've not looked into undervolting my GPUs yet - PrecisionX won't let me undervolt my NVidia cards (and research indicates I'd need to mod the BIOS on them voiding the warrenttee), and I've not looked hard at undervolting the AMD cards yet (I know the tools exist, just haven't had time to dig up the right ones yet).

Several points:

1. GPUs have good resell value, which may or may not change due to Polaris, etc. You should get at least 50%, maybe more. the rest is reusable anyway.
2. Who says that Polaris will be delayed? AFAIK, it will be introduced on June 1 and go on sale few weeks later, maybe as early as late June.
3. Spacing is not that important since most people use powered USB risers, then hang the cards on wired stands with low cost like zip-ties.
My wife calls them "drying fishes".
Example-I run 6 GPUs on one rig using ASrock 97 anniversary (6 slots one)-just $60 on newegg.

4. True, starting mining eth in January-Feb would have been better than right now.

[QuintLeo]

I have seen ZERO about Polaris being available for sale in June. At MOST, it might get a demo/announcement sort of thing per everything I've read SOMETIME in June or early July.
 Show sources on your claims, they're NOT matching up to ANYTHING I've seen to date.

 Do NOT bother with that "spoof" article the one site did "comparing Polaris to Pascal" on cards that hadn't even paper launched yet - and got some of it's estimated specs wrong anyway.


 The earthquake in Taiwan put some serious hurt into TSMC and delayed a lot of stuff a couple months or so - they're back online with that fab now but still playing "catch-up" on scheduals, and there isn't any "space capasity" available yet at that node since it's too new.



 Spacing matters to those of us that don't have the OPTION to build open rigs (have you ever seen a cat get into an open rig?).

 I might have the option to go open after I move, but where I'm at right now I don't.

 It DOES save somewhat when you can go open - no need for high-price high-volume pricey fans, no need for cases, and easy to fit more cards onto one machine with good cooling - though the price of risers mitigates the savings a LITTLE, I'm sure overall it's cheaper.
 On the other hand, you definitely get a lot more money spent per watt into bigger power supplies to RUN that many cards at one time - past around 600-700 watts, PS start climbing a LOT on a $/watt basis.
 You also have a higher risk of losing a BIG chunk of hash of one part goes down - but that can be mitigated with good design using good parts.



 S9 is gonna have to be a wonder machine to compete with ETH mining for at least the next couple months and possibly the rest of this year.

[s1gs3gv]

 S9 is gonna have to be a wonder machine to compete with ETH mining for at least the next couple months and possibly the rest of this year.

The obvious corollary to this is that bitcoin needs to get its act together this year to compete with the ethereum juggernaut.