Portugal runs for four days straight on renewable energy alone

[leopard2]

I don´t give a fat rat´s ass.

Not sure about Portugal but Germany is just fucking ridiculous, highest electricity prices in Europe...

fucking expensive, around 33 us-cents per kwH, and then bragging about negative wholesale  electricity prices when the sun shines  alot? PEOPLE PAY 33 CENTS no matter what the wholesale electricity price is!!!!!!! 

People pay 33 cents for something that would cost 10 cents in a non bolshevist, free market economy. A small number of people benefit (those with large houses and ability to borrow big). Large, renowned companies like RWE and EON are close to being broke. Many towns depend on their dividends and are now broke, too. Welfare recipients need their electrical bill subsidized...not in Venezuela..in GERMANY.

Middle class has to pay and pay and pay for this bullshit. This whole renewable energy shit is just newspeak ecofascist propaganda

LEAVE ME ALONE WITH THAT GREEN SHIT UNTIL IT WORKS IN A FREE MARKET ECONOMY

[leopard2]

Please note that this is totally un-libertarian too. 10 years ago people could pick electtricitiy providers freely. You like nuclear power? Pick it. You like solar power? Pick it (and pay 10 times more)

Today people have no choice, the price consists of almost only taxes, fees and transfers, it is like buying french fries and having to pay for other people who grow broccoli. SICK. TWISTED. FUCKED-UP. And who is responsible?

Ayse Merkel

[magemist]

Oil reserves will last for 30 to 40 years. Solar energy is infinite.

Not when it starts raining. The skys get dark with the clouds rolling in....

[vokain]

And how much energy was used to produce these panels, transport and install them?  How much energy will be used to maintain them?  

I bet you you'll not get back the energy you already spent on building and installing these arrays, even after 25 years of useful life of these panels.

At 30% efficiency, the net energy equation is negative.

Not much more than the energy it costs to set up a coal or gas-fired generator plant. The cost of setting up each type of plant is broadly similar. But with the renewables, the inputs - sunshine and wind - are free. It is a massive burden on an economy to have to import coal and gas - costs money, contributes to your trade deficit and depresses GDP.

So good for Portugal, hopefully this can bring down their deficit - and if they produce enough they can even start exporting surplus electricity to Spain.

But I can understand the coal and gas producers screaming and hollering - they've lost a customer!

Knowing politicians will seek to maintain the balance on the one hand we have the polluters and the other we have to bring the solution to minimize pollution building sources of renewable energy, but the companies that produce nergy with Fossil fuel will not want to stay with losses. In my opinion it had taken a long time to have clean energy.

A single nuclear power plant would produce TEN TIMES the power of that expensive, finicky solar farm that Portugal would like you to believe is so wonderful.

And that nuclear solution would run day and night, instead of just when there was bright sunlight.

Have you checked out Portugal's climate? There is plenty of bright sunlight. Nuclear power stations are expensive to build - they are better suited to cold climates that don't have the benefit of sunshine (or strong wind as Portugal gets from the Atlantic).

Plenty?  Expensive?  Better suited?

I think you need to look in depth at these things before talking.  They are simple numerical cost versus production issues, right?  So which is "best" is simply which produces the most energy for the least money?

I'm getting conflicting information re: nuclear subsidies

Some sources say nuclear is not subsidized and so cheap that it sometimes has to be taxed to keep rates to be "fair" to other energy sources (World Nuclear Association), and others say nuclear isn't viable without subsidies (Union of Concerned Scientists)

Truth probably is in the middle

[countryfree]

It is a great development. Pretty much all these countries have to import coal or gas to generate electricty, so if they can generate via renewables, it should start to improve their trade deficits. Sucks for those countries who export coal or gas though.

It's a great development?

All it takes to achieve this goal is to crank electricity prices up to where nobody can afford them.

Also it's a lie.

Heating buildings and cooking for the country do not run on electric.  

The headline is this -

Portugal runs for four days straight on renewable energy alone

In the body you see a more accurate statement -

Portugal kept its lights on with renewable energy alone for four consecutive days last week in a clean energy milestone

No, it's real, check the Portuguese page:
http://zero.ong/consumo-de-eletricidade-em-portugal-foi-assegurado-durante-mais-de-4-dias-seguidos-por-fontes-renovaveis/

This is about all electricity consumption is the entire country. But I'm not really surprised. Portugal is very lucky regarding renewables with lots of wind from the ocean and good sun. But we shall consider we may at the time of the year when the consumption is at the lowest. There's no more need for heating, nor for air conditioners yet.

Bull.  There are all kinds of needs for energy other than electric.  Many, many things run on various fossil fuels and always will.  For example, a concrete manufacturing plant.  Cars and trucks.  

I pointed out the lie.  Headlines says the "country ran on renewables alone."  Then down below you see it was the electric grid.  That's a fraction of total energy consumption.

Well, yes it's about electricity, but it's much more than lightning, so it's quite an achievement, considering the low maintenance cost of renewable energies.

I don´t give a fat rat´s ass.

Not sure about Portugal but Germany is just fucking ridiculous, highest electricity prices in Europe...

fucking expensive, around 33 us-cents per kwH, and then bragging about negative wholesale  electricity prices when the sun shines  alot? PEOPLE PAY 33 CENTS no matter what the wholesale electricity price is!!!!!!! 

People pay 33 cents for something that would cost 10 cents in a non bolshevist, free market economy. A small number of people benefit (those with large houses and ability to borrow big). Large, renowned companies like RWE and EON are close to being broke. Many towns depend on their dividends and are now broke, too. Welfare recipients need their electrical bill subsidized...not in Venezuela..in GERMANY.

Middle class has to pay and pay and pay for this bullshit. This whole renewable energy shit is just newspeak ecofascist propaganda

LEAVE ME ALONE WITH THAT GREEN SHIT UNTIL IT WORKS IN A FREE MARKET ECONOMY

No, sir, there are at least 2 European countries where electricity is even more expensive.
I don't think there's a single country in the world where there is a free market for utilities. Nuclear energy was heavily subsidized when the first power stations were built. People have forgotten that fact which makes nuclear energy looks cheap but it isn't. Look at the new stations which are being built in France and Norway, I think they're already 3 times over budget.

[Spendulus]

It is a great development. Pretty much all these countries have to import coal or gas to generate electricty, so if they can generate via renewables, it should start to improve their trade deficits. Sucks for those countries who export coal or gas though.

It's a great development?

All it takes to achieve this goal is to crank electricity prices up to where nobody can afford them.

Also it's a lie.

Heating buildings and cooking for the country do not run on electric.  

The headline is this -

Portugal runs for four days straight on renewable energy alone

In the body you see a more accurate statement -

Portugal kept its lights on with renewable energy alone for four consecutive days last week in a clean energy milestone

No, it's real, check the Portuguese page:
http://zero.ong/consumo-de-eletricidade-em-portugal-foi-assegurado-durante-mais-de-4-dias-seguidos-por-fontes-renovaveis/

This is about all electricity consumption is the entire country. But I'm not really surprised. Portugal is very lucky regarding renewables with lots of wind from the ocean and good sun. But we shall consider we may at the time of the year when the consumption is at the lowest. There's no more need for heating, nor for air conditioners yet.

Bull.  There are all kinds of needs for energy other than electric.  Many, many things run on various fossil fuels and always will.  For example, a concrete manufacturing plant.  Cars and trucks.  

I pointed out the lie.  Headlines says the "country ran on renewables alone."  Then down below you see it was the electric grid.  That's a fraction of total energy consumption.

Well, yes it's about electricity, but it's much more than lightning, so it's quite an achievement, considering the low maintenance cost of renewable energies.

I don´t give a fat rat´s ass.

Not sure about Portugal but Germany is just fucking ridiculous, highest electricity prices in Europe...

fucking expensive, around 33 us-cents per kwH, and then bragging about negative wholesale  electricity prices when the sun shines  alot? PEOPLE PAY 33 CENTS no matter what the wholesale electricity price is!!!!!!! 

People pay 33 cents for something that would cost 10 cents in a non bolshevist, free market economy. A small number of people benefit (those with large houses and ability to borrow big). Large, renowned companies like RWE and EON are close to being broke. Many towns depend on their dividends and are now broke, too. Welfare recipients need their electrical bill subsidized...not in Venezuela..in GERMANY.

Middle class has to pay and pay and pay for this bullshit. This whole renewable energy shit is just newspeak ecofascist propaganda

LEAVE ME ALONE WITH THAT GREEN SHIT UNTIL IT WORKS IN A FREE MARKET ECONOMY

No, sir, there are at least 2 European countries where electricity is even more expensive.
I don't think there's a single country in the world where there is a free market for utilities. Nuclear energy was heavily subsidized when the first power stations were built. People have forgotten that fact which makes nuclear energy looks cheap but it isn't. Look at the new stations which are being built in France and Norway, I think they're already 3 times over budget.

I pay 10-12 cents per Kwhr.  The electric is a mix of natural gas, coal and nuclear, with a tiny bit of HIGHLY subsidized wind and solar. 

Without those subsidies there wouldn't be any wind or solar.  Zero.  Yes there would be nuclear without subsidies.

[criptix]

Nuclear fission is far from being the "cheapest".
People always forget the final disposal of nuclear waste and security risk of the majority of gen2 reactors that makes fission extremely expensive.

For example netherland and germany are trying to get the belgium gov to shutdown tihange and dael because of the enormous problems there.


Btw. The electricity in germany cost around 20 cents not sure where you get the 33 cents number o.O
And the reason for it is because we are subsidizing the industry... depending on which industry you pay only 30-50% ( say 5-10 Cent per khw ).

[alyssa85]

I don´t give a fat rat´s ass.

Not sure about Portugal but Germany is just fucking ridiculous, highest electricity prices in Europe...

fucking expensive, around 33 us-cents per kwH, and then bragging about negative wholesale  electricity prices when the sun shines  alot? PEOPLE PAY 33 CENTS no matter what the wholesale electricity price is!!!!!!! 

People pay 33 cents for something that would cost 10 cents in a non bolshevist, free market economy. A small number of people benefit (those with large houses and ability to borrow big). Large, renowned companies like RWE and EON are close to being broke. Many towns depend on their dividends and are now broke, too. Welfare recipients need their electrical bill subsidized...not in Venezuela..in GERMANY.

Middle class has to pay and pay and pay for this bullshit. This whole renewable energy shit is just newspeak ecofascist propaganda

LEAVE ME ALONE WITH THAT GREEN SHIT UNTIL IT WORKS IN A FREE MARKET ECONOMY

Germany's electricity is expensive because Merkel panicked after the Fukushima disaster and shut down all the nuclear power plants - even though Germany doesn't have much of a coast-line and isn't in an earthquake zone, so no danger of tsunamis etc.

If you already have nuclear power plants, you should continue to run them - the expensive part is setting them up, and those are sunk costs for existing plants. So run them right to the end of their lives to get the maximum value out of them. No sense in shutting them early.

[countryfree]

It is a great development. Pretty much all these countries have to import coal or gas to generate electricty, so if they can generate via renewables, it should start to improve their trade deficits. Sucks for those countries who export coal or gas though.

It's a great development?

All it takes to achieve this goal is to crank electricity prices up to where nobody can afford them.

Also it's a lie.

Heating buildings and cooking for the country do not run on electric.  

The headline is this -

Portugal runs for four days straight on renewable energy alone

In the body you see a more accurate statement -

Portugal kept its lights on with renewable energy alone for four consecutive days last week in a clean energy milestone

No, it's real, check the Portuguese page:
http://zero.ong/consumo-de-eletricidade-em-portugal-foi-assegurado-durante-mais-de-4-dias-seguidos-por-fontes-renovaveis/

This is about all electricity consumption is the entire country. But I'm not really surprised. Portugal is very lucky regarding renewables with lots of wind from the ocean and good sun. But we shall consider we may at the time of the year when the consumption is at the lowest. There's no more need for heating, nor for air conditioners yet.

Bull.  There are all kinds of needs for energy other than electric.  Many, many things run on various fossil fuels and always will.  For example, a concrete manufacturing plant.  Cars and trucks.  

I pointed out the lie.  Headlines says the "country ran on renewables alone."  Then down below you see it was the electric grid.  That's a fraction of total energy consumption.

Well, yes it's about electricity, but it's much more than lightning, so it's quite an achievement, considering the low maintenance cost of renewable energies.

I don´t give a fat rat´s ass.

Not sure about Portugal but Germany is just fucking ridiculous, highest electricity prices in Europe...

fucking expensive, around 33 us-cents per kwH, and then bragging about negative wholesale  electricity prices when the sun shines  alot? PEOPLE PAY 33 CENTS no matter what the wholesale electricity price is!!!!!!! 

People pay 33 cents for something that would cost 10 cents in a non bolshevist, free market economy. A small number of people benefit (those with large houses and ability to borrow big). Large, renowned companies like RWE and EON are close to being broke. Many towns depend on their dividends and are now broke, too. Welfare recipients need their electrical bill subsidized...not in Venezuela..in GERMANY.

Middle class has to pay and pay and pay for this bullshit. This whole renewable energy shit is just newspeak ecofascist propaganda

LEAVE ME ALONE WITH THAT GREEN SHIT UNTIL IT WORKS IN A FREE MARKET ECONOMY

No, sir, there are at least 2 European countries where electricity is even more expensive.
I don't think there's a single country in the world where there is a free market for utilities. Nuclear energy was heavily subsidized when the first power stations were built. People have forgotten that fact which makes nuclear energy looks cheap but it isn't. Look at the new stations which are being built in France and Norway, I think they're already 3 times over budget.

I pay 10-12 cents per Kwhr.  The electric is a mix of natural gas, coal and nuclear, with a tiny bit of HIGHLY subsidized wind and solar. 

Without those subsidies there wouldn't be any wind or solar.  Zero.  Yes there would be nuclear without subsidies.

You should have a look at what's going on in Africa. There isn't a single nuclear power station there. Several countries would want one, but they just can't afford to subsidize the building of a station. Renewable energy one the other hand is booming in many places.

[ObscureBean]

Oil reserves will last for 30 to 40 years. Solar energy is infinite.

Not when it starts raining. The skys get dark with the clouds rolling in....

That would've been a problem some years back but with current technology, you should still have at least a few days worth of power to work with. Provided of course, there was a long enough sunny period before the bad weather. And you can make it last even longer if you only use essential electric appliances. And it goes without saying that you're not going to rely on a solar setup in a location where you only have a few months of sun in a year.

[Spendulus]

You should have a look at what's going on in Africa. There isn't a single nuclear power station there. Several countries would want one, but they just can't afford to subsidize the building of a station. Renewable energy one the other hand is booming in many places.

Africa is a continent. 

Now it's something to brag about, that there is no nuclear power.

Wow...

[countryfree]

You should have a look at what's going on in Africa. There isn't a single nuclear power station there. Several countries would want one, but they just can't afford to subsidize the building of a station. Renewable energy one the other hand is booming in many places.

Africa is a continent. 

Now it's something to brag about, that there is no nuclear power.

Wow...

Yes, sir. Dozens of countries. More people than in the US, Europe and Japan combined all living without nukes, and without any plan to go atomic. This shows it can be done.