How the Ripple payment network and XRP are different from Bitcoin

[misterbigg]

We need a free monetary market, not a world "reserve" currency.

There will always be a reserve currency, either one that is enforced by fiat or one that arises naturally from the free market, because having a common denomination is very convenient for settling a current account balance.

Time will tell ... but this outcome cannot be ruled out a priory for XRPs, but it CAN be ruled out for Bitcoin.  Bitcoin's p2p network limitations and slow confirmations inhibit the velocity of its secure flows, therefore in the long run it should not be able to replace USD as the "the intermediary" currency the way XRPs can.

I disagree completely. Current account balances are not marked to market and settled every second, usually its on the order of every quarter or every month.

[psybits]

Thanks for posting this. Illuminating 

I'm still not sure how the info you provided proves that Ripple is superior to Bitcoin, but I liked the info, so cheers.

[jtimon]

We need a free monetary market, not a world "reserve" currency.

There will always be a reserve currency, either one that is enforced by fiat or one that arises naturally from the free market, because having a common denomination is very convenient for settling a current account balance.

If you need a common denomination then why not just have a common denomination without a common currency?
I'm talking about indexes units similar to Lietaer's Terrra, Riegel's Valun, 1970usd, GBP99...

Here we're discussing this (again): https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rippleusers/flndti011ys/discussion

You account in Valuns, you settle in whatever currency you agreed (you always know how to translate from valun to that currency).

[misterbigg]

You account in Valuns, you settle in whatever currency you agreed (you always know how to translate from valun to that currency).

LOL...do you realize what you're saying? "whatever currency you agreed" is the reserve currency!

When two countries agree to settle their current account balances in gold, then gold is the reserve currency. Today, the US dollar is the reserve currency for most countries (thanks to our aircraft carriers and military). Bitcoin would make a great reserve currency, superior to gold in many ways since it can be transmitted effortlessly.

There is a strong argument that XRPs would be superior even to Bitcoins as a reserve currency.

[misterbigg]

Bringing this back up since there is renewed interest / criticism in Ripple.

[TimJBenham]

There is a strong argument that XRPs would be superior even to Bitcoins as a reserve currency.

What argument is that? with its reserves controlled by four guys it would be worse than the USD. What restraints would there be on OC engaging in predatory behavior?

[digicoin]

Until Ripple open sources it 

[JoelKatz]

What argument is that? with its reserves controlled by four guys it would be worse than the USD. What restraints would there be on OC engaging in predatory behavior?

Can you clarify what you mean by "predatory behavior", perhaps with an example or two?

[bitcoinik]

What do you think about Litecoin? Will Ripple support Litecoin at some point?

[JoelKatz]

Ripple supports Litecoin as it supports any currency. Gateways can issue and redeem Litecoin balances (Dividend Rippler and The Rock Trading already do this) and exchanges work between Litecoin and any other currency. Payments can be made with Litecoin balances or in amounts denominated in Litecoins.

As for what I think about Litecoin, I think it has two tiny advantages over Bitcoin (less time to first confirmation and higher possible transaction volume) and numerous significant disadvantages over Bitcoin (much less secure mining, much lower confirmation value, low chance for significant adoption). So I think its only chance is as an inferior alternative to Bitcoin, possibly valuable in case Bitcoin fails somehow. For example, during the Bitcoin blockchain split, Litecoins were still usable.

[TimJBenham]

What argument is that? with its reserves controlled by four guys it would be worse than the USD. What restraints would there be on OC engaging in predatory behavior?

Can you clarify what you mean by "predatory behavior", perhaps with an example or two?

In this case creating a market expectation that XRP would be managed to retain a certain value then dumping them on the market would be seen as predatory. In the context of free banking it corresponds to the deliberate debasement of the bank's currency, or the issue of redeemable notes that it lacks the capacity to redeem.

[mmeijeri]

In this case creating a market expectation that XRP would be managed to retain a certain value then dumping them on the market would be seen as predatory.

But everybody knows how much XRP is hanging over the market.

In the context of free banking it corresponds to the deliberate debasement of the bank's currency, or the issue of redeemable notes that it lacks the capacity to redeem.

That will not be possible once the source is released and the system becomes truly distributed as opposed to merely potentially distributed.

[JoelKatz]

In this case creating a market expectation that XRP would be managed to retain a certain value then dumping them on the market would be seen as predatory. In the context of free banking it corresponds to the deliberate debasement of the bank's currency, or the issue of redeemable notes that it lacks the capacity to redeem.

I think we've been pretty clear that we are not making any promises to manage XRP as a currency with any particular target value. The XRP that OpenCoin holds will be given away as OpenCoin thinks is appropriate to drive adoption or sold as OpenCoin thinks is appropriate for its financial needs and interests. We absolutely make no promises or representations about the value of XRP to the world in general.

[CIYAM]

I think that the speculation in XRP might actually be the biggest *problem* for Ripple.

Right now the Open Coiners can "sell" their self-printed currency for 1 BTC per 10K (and they have billions of them).

Once Ripple actually is *working* then IF the XRP are used as what we were all told their purpose is (i.e. postage stamps) then they will be worth very little (i.e. expect a *huge crash*).

This will hurt many of the speculators (who for sure have been rather silly to gamble on it) but I wonder if the backlash will actually *kill* the project (i.e. is this gamble going to actually pay off?).

[Andrew Vorobyov]

Even worse are the fanbois and apologists who swore up and down that "XRPs are just like stamps and they are only used to pay for transactions." Anyone who keeps tooting this horn deserves a forum ignore.

Hush down...  

"XRPs are just like stamps and they are only used to pay for transactions."

If some company can think it can monetize it - let it be... But they can fail, there can be other companies who would like to do it for free or smaller amounts of money...

+ don't forget - original ripple idea did not have any XRPs at all

PS. XRP will gain value by being reserve currency until enough people will say "we need alt-Ripple with cheap XRPs"

[mmeijeri]

I think we've been pretty clear that we are not making any promises to manage XRP as a currency with any particular target value.

How about merely reducing volatility?

The XRP that OpenCoin holds will be given away as OpenCoin thinks is appropriate to drive adoption or sold as OpenCoin thinks is appropriate for its financial needs and interests. We absolutely make no promises or representations about the value of XRP to the world in general.

But you do intend XRP to become a real currency, not just some sort of stamp, don't you?

[CIYAM]

But you do intend XRP to become a real currency, not just as some sort of stamps, don't you?

I think it is mostly just a very clever experiment in social engineering - they stated that XRP are "postage stamps" yet people are now buying them for large amounts of BTC and when they finally open source and show they are "postage stamps" after all they will have made millions in selling them plus not being able to be shown as liars.

Although I can't respect it I can certainly take my hat off to the cleverness of it.

[JoelKatz]

But you do intend XRP to become a real currency, not just some sort of stamp, don't you?

As a corporation, we are legally obligated to maximize shareholder value. With our current business model, that means acting to increase the value and liquidity of XRP. We believe this will happen if the Ripple network is widely adopted as a payment system. We are pursuing multiple avenues at once. One would expect increased demand to increase price.

[TimJBenham]

But everybody knows how much XRP is hanging over the market.

Everyone knows that the Fed could mint a quintillion dollars tomorrow if it wanted to, yet the USD roughly maintains its value.

[Mitzplik]

But everybody knows how much XRP is hanging over the market.

Everyone knows that the Fed could mint a quintillion dollars tomorrow if it wanted to, yet the USD roughly maintains its value.

The numeric value, but not the purchasing power.