How the Ripple payment network and XRP are different from Bitcoin

[mmeijeri]

Do the benefits that the Ripple system bring to participants outweigh the enrichment of the authors through the self-issuance of the entire block of in-system currency units?

I don't think there's anything to outweigh there. People trying to make a buck is good old fashioned capitalism at work. They've created something valuable and deserve a shot at making money from it. I think the real question is whether it is is anyone else's interest to start using Ripple instead of forking it and starting with a new genesis ledger based on the Bitcoin UTXO set at some fixed point in time, modifying the code to allow some sort of proof-of-burn transition from Bitcoin, or implementing something similar on top of Bitcoin.

[mmeijeri]

It's theoretically possible that Ripple will take off without XRP taking off at all, in which case OpenCoin would get very little payoff. XRP might also take off in a big way. It's very hard to say.

I don't think that is likely, as XRP is the only currency in the Ripple system that has no counterparty risk. This makes it ideal as a bridge currency. Any time anyone does transparent currency conversion inside Ripple, perhaps to buy or sell cryptocurrency against fiat, perhaps to make foreign fiat payments, they will most likely be using XRP in the background. That should create enormous demand for XRP in case Ripple gets used widely. And widespread use of Ripple for fiat payments is not dependent on the value of XRP. I think it is one of several master strokes in the Ripple design.

[Ebrelus]

All about it was already said here:
http://ripplescam.org/

Ripple will fall when real crisis will start or even faster when people get to know what it really is. 
Because of mainstream/banksters help handicap this scamcoin got high valuation but people have no knowledge about how this system work, how closed and centralised it is and how easily can be controlled by government and how fast can bring losses for users while original owners have majority owneship being risk-free at least temporarily.

Bitcoin has ripple-headache right now what is a real massive attack on all freedom, humanitarian ideas and principles standing behind it. But soon ripple will have similar headache because of what it is and true bitcoin alternatives which are coming. Scam stays scam in the end and people start to open eyes.

[mmeijeri]

That is TradeFortress's anti-Ripple propaganda site. It's about as trustworthy as anything else he has ever said.

[Mitzplik]

All about it was already said here:
http://ripplescam.org/

Ripple will fall when real crisis will start or even faster when people get to know what it really is. 
Because of mainstream/banksters help handicap this scamcoin got high valuation but people have no knowledge about how this system work, how closed and centralised it is and how easily can be controlled by government and how fast can bring losses for users while original owners have majority owneship being risk-free at least temporarily.

Bitcoin has ripple-headache right now what is a real massive attack on all freedom, humanitarian ideas and principles standing behind it. But soon ripple will have similar headache because of what it is and true bitcoin alternatives which are coming. Scam stays scam in the end and people start to open eyes.

This is the kind of passionate speech that keeps humanity blind.
"How closed and centralised" without pointing how is no argument here.
Ripple is a distributed network where ledger validators majority are servers controled by Ripple Labs, just because there are no validators enough to balance the equation. When Satosh started to mine BTC how many validators were operating? How much of the hashing power was concentrated? Who is Satoshi? Do he run a mining pool? He owns at least 10% of all BTC. Ripple Labs will lose the network's control when new free validators begin to vote for other validators, its a matter of time. Otherwise, the protocol would fail and so would their company as well. So, harming network's diversity would harm Ripple Labs fatally.

Ripplescam is a biased grey propaganda, the data is not up to date.

[hypostatization]

I wish more people had exposure to this lower level discussion of the Ripple network and consensus:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6867324

At the exchange level, what Ripple can accomplish is amazing. I hope to see it, or at least the ideas behind it, gain traction.

If you trade alts on an exchange---you are already using IOUs. A lot of people do not realize this. You are embracing a closed centralized IOU system. Decentralization is sacrificed. Anyone who has found themselves unable to withdraw understands exactly why this is a problem that must be solved. Ripple opens the closed IOU networks---and empowers both investors and daily users in turn.

Payments massively benefit from Ripple, with users being able to pay for goods using any currency. Individual vendor support for the currencies you hold becomes a thing of the past. USD support can mean Bitcoin support---or LTC, QRK, WDC, XPM, PPC or even DOGE. If currencies were languages, Ripple becomes a real time universal translator as the network grows.

XRP being superior to Bitcoin is a dead argument; the same goes for the opposite perspective. Ripple---as a network and currency (XRP)---solves different problems of centralization than Bitcoin and most other alts. Each offers its own unique value. They are complementary systems. Winner-takes-all is the wrong mentality. Each has its own future.

[hypostatization]

All about it was already said here:
http://ripplescam.org/

At best, that site has become a dishonest joke. It is outdated and inaccurate.

Ripple source code:

https://github.com/ripple

Check out the ongoing work on Contracts: https://ripple.com/wiki/Contracts

If you are interested in the technical future, Ripple Labs recently hired a co-founder of nodejitsu: https://www.nodejitsu.com/

They are backed by Google Ventures (who also backs a Bitcoin exchange startup)---among other serious investors.

It has a more impressive dedicated team than most coins, from Dev through Business Development: https://www.ripplelabs.com/

Nothing about Ripple points to a scam.

[mmeijeri]

I wish more people had exposure to this lower level discussion of the Ripple network and consensus:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6867324

I was confused by this. I thought the consensus mechanism was only based on the nodes on your UNL, all of whom may have different UNLs themselves.

[JoelKatz]

I was confused by this. I thought the consensus mechanism was only based on the nodes on your UNL, all of whom may have different UNLs themselves.

From the point of view of one server, all that matters is what the nodes on its UNL say.

[Mitzplik]

This topic title should be changed, i agree that its not a matter of superiority, but to understand the differences and evaluate ripple protocol without passion

[misterbigg]

This topic title should be changed, i agree that its not a matter of superiority, but to understand the differences and evaluate ripple protocol without passion

I agree with this statement.

[tokeweed]

I think that the speculation in XRP might actually be the biggest *problem* for Ripple.

Right now the Open Coiners can "sell" their self-printed currency for 1 BTC per 10K (and they have billions of them).

Once Ripple actually is *working* then IF the XRP are used as what we were all told their purpose is (i.e. postage stamps) then they will be worth very little (i.e. expect a *huge crash*).

This will hurt many of the speculators (who for sure have been rather silly to gamble on it) but I wonder if the backlash will actually *kill* the project (i.e. is this gamble going to actually pay off?).

yes that's true.  but that remains to be seen. 

[tokeweed]

But you do intend XRP to become a real currency, not just as some sort of stamps, don't you?

I think it is mostly just a very clever experiment in social engineering - they stated that XRP are "postage stamps" yet people are now buying them for large amounts of BTC and when they finally open source and show they are "postage stamps" after all they will have made millions in selling them plus not being able to be shown as liars.

Although I can't respect it I can certainly take my hat off to the cleverness of it.

cynical.  but you have the right to your own opinion, and everyone can respect that. 

[tokeweed]

All about it was already said here:
http://ripplescam.org/

Ripple will fall when real crisis will start or even faster when people get to know what it really is. 
Because of mainstream/banksters help handicap this scamcoin got high valuation but people have no knowledge about how this system work, how closed and centralised it is and how easily can be controlled by government and how fast can bring losses for users while original owners have majority owneship being risk-free at least temporarily.

Bitcoin has ripple-headache right now what is a real massive attack on all freedom, humanitarian ideas and principles standing behind it. But soon ripple will have similar headache because of what it is and true bitcoin alternatives which are coming. Scam stays scam in the end and people start to open eyes.

that site doesn't give much info.  please try going to it and read for yourself.

[sublime5447]

I would use the fuck out of ripple for self issued credit, but ripples work on the scarcity model. If ripples where free and unlimited it work well for me.

Of course that destroys their business model. The ripple team thinks they will get paid by the valuation going up for ripple. How about getting paid by providing a valuable service?

[JoelKatz]

I would use the fuck out of ripple for self issued credit, but ripples work on the scarcity model. If ripples where free and unlimited it work well for me.

XRP is the only asset on Ripple that works this way, and it has to because it's used to pay transaction fees and there's no known way to support unlimited transactions.

Of course that destroys their business model. The ripple team thinks they will get paid by the valuation going up for ripple. How about getting paid by providing a valuable service?

If we followed that model, we'd either have a lot less money to spend on development and integration or we'd have to charge for lots of things we can do for free using the model we've chosen. We set things up the way we did because that was what we believed was best. The market will decide whether we made good decisions or not. If we chose wrong, we will lose to those who make better choices. Worst case, the world gets a payment system that's even better than Ripple. I can live with that.

[sublime5447]

I would use the fuck out of ripple for self issued credit, but ripples work on the scarcity model. If ripples where free and unlimited it work well for me.

XRP is the only asset on Ripple that works this way, and it has to because it's used to pay transaction fees and there's no known way to support unlimited transactions.

Of course that destroys their business model. The ripple team thinks they will get paid by the valuation going up for ripple. How about getting paid by providing a valuable service?

If we followed that model, we'd either have a lot less money to spend on development and integration or we'd have to charge for lots of things we can do for free using the model we've chosen. We set things up the way we did because that was what we believed was best. The market will decide whether we made good decisions or not. If we chose wrong, we will lose to those who make better choices. Worst case, the world gets a payment system that's even better than Ripple. I can live with that.

Well I will wait on that better system then.. good luck.

Define a ripple, take the hard limit off, allow people to create them when they issue and asset, require that they be redeemable, fixed.

 

[Mitzplik]

I would use the fuck out of ripple for self issued credit, but ripples work on the scarcity model. If ripples where free and unlimited it work well for me.

XRP is the only asset on Ripple that works this way, and it has to because it's used to pay transaction fees and there's no known way to support unlimited transactions.

Of course that destroys their business model. The ripple team thinks they will get paid by the valuation going up for ripple. How about getting paid by providing a valuable service?

If we followed that model, we'd either have a lot less money to spend on development and integration or we'd have to charge for lots of things we can do for free using the model we've chosen. We set things up the way we did because that was what we believed was best. The market will decide whether we made good decisions or not. If we chose wrong, we will lose to those who make better choices. Worst case, the world gets a payment system that's even better than Ripple. I can live with that.

Well I will wait on that better system then.. good luck.

Define a ripple, take the hard limit off, allow people to create them when they issue and asset, require that they be redeemable, fixed.

Actually, you can create such yourself in ripple as it is now.

[jubalix]

the problem with ripple is you have to make it onto the UNL list, to be part of the consensus.

You can't just join.

Who decides who get on the UNL list that is the question.

[RafOlP]

the problem with ripple is you have to make it onto the UNL list, to be part of the consensus.

You can't just join.

Who decides who get on the UNL list that is the question.

If you are talking about being a validator server, you are right. If you are talking about using ripple network, you are wrong.