Only talks but no action ? That's how we deal with issues .

[Joel_Jantsen]

So a lot of threads and concerns are being brought up recently with trading accounts on this forum,especially of higher ranks or green trust which are blatantly used for scamming.And we're still encouraging such account sales openly in self-moderated threads?
Take this cunt for example : Claims to have multiple hero and legendary accounts with the trust scale rating from light green to dark green.

How much for the dark green legendary?

And what's the price difference between the dark green and the light green? I hope it's not too big :-/

1BTC price difference in dark green legendary & light green legendary

2.5BTC for dark green legendary negotiable
1.5BTC for light green legendary negotiable

The respective threads : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1470963.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1472845.0;topicseen

How can its possible for one to own too many "Green Trusted" accounts anyway ? Either he is lying the account sales or maybe one of the trusted members is miss using powers.My point is,let the account sales be there but if Mods can delete such green trust account sales thread or DT tag the sellers rightfully ,it can avoid further scam.

[Avirunes]

How can its possible for one to own too many "Green Trusted" accounts anyway ? Either he is lying the account sales or maybe one of the trusted members is miss using powers.My point is,let the account sales be there but if Mods can delete such green trust account sales thread or DT tag the sellers rightfully ,it can avoid further scam.

I totally agree with you mate.Account sales for High trust account should not be encouraged in the forum as a scammer may get a chance to scam someone or someone may abust trust powers.Accounts starting up such kind of threads should be handed a perma ban.

[tmfp]

Reluctantly allowing the sale of accounts seems to be the policy here, but it's hard to justify transferring positive trust to a new user whose motives for buying could well be dishonest. Straightforward buying of trust isn't condoned, so why should this back door way of getting it be?

In practice though, how could admin stop it even if they wanted to, or strip sold accounts of positive trust which is no longer applicable?
They only have certain information about an account, the email, password, isp and maybe a signed message. They may have other magic forensic stuff, but I'd have thought that would be pretty labor intensive.
All that sellers would do would transfer everything to the new user as part of the deal, and isp's change all the time.

[Funny]

If I'm understanding the "trust system" correctly, it would only take a DT1 member to add an account to it's trust list and give it a positive rating of some kind correct for that account to be considered dark green and DT2? If that's the case I'm sure it's possible for any DT1 member to have multiple DT2 accounts, but I think the majority of the time these account sale threads started by newbies are just conversation starters for sig spammers. I myself have inquired on a couple different threads and never even received a response back from the OP, or the OP will post or pm something like "the account was sold by way of pm" after bids or inquiries have been placed with no proof of the sale. So it's hard to tell in the end. I consider almost any thread started by a "newbie" to be a bogus thread really, until it's proven legitimate otherwise ...lol I also think a lot of the blatantly obvious scam threads are started by members here on purpose as well, so they can pretend to "kick some scammer ass" and build their post counts in the process ...lol I agree with you JOEL though, there are some crazy "CUNTS" here in this forum ...lol and Only GOD knows what's really going on in this place half the time!



 

[ndnh]

I wouldn't trust a legendary I don't know.
I wouldn't trust someone with 100000 green trust I don't know.

so a dark green legendary should be worth around 0.05 or so to me.

[JessicaG]

It is indeed awkward, that trust can be purchased by such methods. The trust was initially given by a person or persons, because the one given this trust to, had earned it in such. Handing over such accounts to other persons, is like saying it's okay for a Charles Ponzi to be eligible to take on the mantle of the Pope and hence forth to be believed and/or trusted as such.

It should not be allowed to trade accounts with positive trust, or at least the trust should be nullified before trading such accounts is allowed.

[jacee]

It's pretty easy to identify an account specially if it's high ranked and has a trust feedbacks as a sold account.
I wouldn't trust a green trust who just recently changed their password. Also I would ask for a signed message his old address to prove if it's still the same person.

I actually don't think that the buyig and selling can be stopped because even if it will be prohibited in this forum, it still can be done outside. Whic IMO it's best if the buy and sell of accounts happens here so that we can have an idea rather not knowing anything about it because it happened somewhere else.

I don't know if my opinion makes sense I'm just lacking for some words to express my opinion about this issue.

[cpfreeplz]

I wouldn't trust a legendary I don't know.
I wouldn't trust someone with 100000 green trust I don't know.

so a dark green legendary should be worth around 0.05 or so to me.

Here here! If I've never heard of someone it doesn't really matter that they have +25 beside their name. Just because they didn't scam someone when they bought $100 worth of bitcoins doesn't mean they won't scam me when we try to do a deal for $250 worth of bitcoins! also, ask for a PGP signed message. I know they can be sold with an account but it's not good indicator as to whether or not you're dealing with the right person or a purchased account.

[Your Point Is Invalid]

If I'm understanding the "trust system" correctly, it would only take a DT1 member to add an account to it's trust list and give it a positive rating of some kind correct for that account to be considered dark green and DT2? If that's the case I'm sure it's possible for any DT1 member to have multiple DT2 accounts,
~snip~

Well you are correct when you say a person is added to DT2 when a person from DT1 adds them to their trust list but the rest of the system works differently, giving an account dark green requires at least 2 members from DT to give the account positive trust. Also, I dont think and DT1 user will risk their place by adding their alts to DT2

[Evildrum]

Two different issues the way I perceive the problem.
Account selling is not something you can control and its also part of loans,so you are also wanting to eliminate loans as well if this is the case.
Its actually a broken Default Trust system that needs to be addressed,the manipulation of the forum based on it has to change. It represents a oligarch that has past its time and holds to it with every dying breath.

Account selling is not the issue,its that accounts are being sold with Trust.

[Your Point Is Invalid]

Two different issues the way I perceive the problem.
Account selling is not something you can control and its also part of loans,so you are also wanting to eliminate loans as well if this is the case.
Its actually a broken Default Trust system that needs to be addressed,the manipulation of the forum based on it has to change. It represents a oligarch that has past its time and holds to it with every dying breath.

Account selling is not the issue,its that accounts are being sold with Trust.

Changing the trust system is not an option, the current system actually works well 95% of the time, it's just that people dont start threads and make noise every time the system works. The only thing we can do is ban account sales

[ndnh]

If I'm understanding the "trust system" correctly, it would only take a DT1 member to add an account to it's trust list and give it a positive rating of some kind correct for that account to be considered dark green and DT2? If that's the case I'm sure it's possible for any DT1 member to have multiple DT2 accounts,
~snip~

Well you are correct when you say a person is added to DT2 when a person from DT1 adds them to their trust list but the rest of the system works differently, giving an account dark green requires at least 2 members from DT to give the account positive trust. Also, I dont think and DT1 user will risk their place by adding their alts to DT2

@Funny If a Level 1 Default trust member adds someone to his trust list, he would be on Level 2 Default trust. (Giving a positive feedback is not required.)

Yeah adding a positive feedback does not make it dark green trust either. IIRC it is a function of number of trusted feedbacks and number of months after the very first feedback.

If someone is in Default trust level 1, he doesn't need another default trust level 2 anyway. Having your own trust list like most established members do will take care of all the problems.

[Evildrum]

Two different issues the way I perceive the problem.
Account selling is not something you can control and its also part of loans,so you are also wanting to eliminate loans as well if this is the case.
Its actually a broken Default Trust system that needs to be addressed,the manipulation of the forum based on it has to change. It represents a oligarch that has past its time and holds to it with every dying breath.

Account selling is not the issue,its that accounts are being sold with Trust.

Changing the trust system is not an option, the current system actually works well 95% of the time, it's just that people dont start threads and make noise every time the system works. The only thing we can do is ban account sales

People can sell accounts off the site,so its something you can crack down on but most likely just slow the trafficking of accounts.
The Trust is controlled on the site,therefore something you can change. Does not mean it would be easy and think there maybe some better options than full out stripping of it.

Would say people mostly trade based on seeing other successful transactions with the member they choose to do business with. Doubt there are many members that are Hero up that base their opinion on who to go deal with based solely on their trust. Its actually something newer accounts do and the reason it is more damaging to the new stream of users.

[Your Point Is Invalid]

Two different issues the way I perceive the problem.
Account selling is not something you can control and its also part of loans,so you are also wanting to eliminate loans as well if this is the case.
Its actually a broken Default Trust system that needs to be addressed,the manipulation of the forum based on it has to change. It represents a oligarch that has past its time and holds to it with every dying breath.

Account selling is not the issue,its that accounts are being sold with Trust.

Changing the trust system is not an option, the current system actually works well 95% of the time, it's just that people dont start threads and make noise every time the system works. The only thing we can do is ban account sales

People can sell accounts off the site,so its something you can crack down on but most likely just slow the trafficking of accounts.
The Trust is controlled on the site,therefore something you can change. Does not mean it would be easy and think there maybe some better options than full out stripping of it.

Would say people mostly trade based on seeing other successful transactions with the member they choose to do business with. Doubt there are many members that are Hero up that base their opinion on who to go deal with based solely on their trust. Its actually something newer accounts do and the reason it is more damaging to the new stream of users.

We have been having multiple discussions on how to improve the trust rating system, If there were a better option, it would be in place. I think we should move our focus from trust and focus more on account sales, If account sales are banned then it will be very hard to sell accounts with green trust. If the trust system is changed or kept the same, trades can always be faked and fake feedback can be made

[ahmedjadoon]

No one should trust trust system.

[freedoge.co]

No one should trust trust system.

100% agree, trust system on bitcointalk is abused in both ways. You can get the red trust for anything from anyone and also members are selling the green trusts between accounts.

[Evildrum]

Is this how you plan to achieve change by attacking people in this manner OP?

No wonder you're a typical account famer.Fuckin I can't even express my hate towards you.Unfortunately I was unable to find the account being sold but hey found your other alt accounts here.People like you are curse to this forum.Go fuck a cactus mate.

link:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1489425.msg15012032#msg15012032

The thing I do not like is the emotional aspect and the hijacking of a thread to make a point.
Just because people feel right about a issue should not allow them to address people in this manner.
As of today account sales are allowed and attacking some one in their own thread is over stepping in my opinion.

[Joel_Jantsen]

Is this how you plan to achieve change by attacking people in this manner OP?

I'm sorry if you find it rude but I seriously can't stand account farmers.What could I have had said possibly ? It won't make any difference to him,he'll continue his business anyway.

The thing I do not like is the emotional aspect and the hijacking of a thread to make a point.
Just because people feel right about a issue should not allow them to address people in this manner.
As of today account sales are allowed and attacking some one in their own thread is over stepping in my opinion.

Again,I'm not stepping out of my bounds by posting my opinions in his thread.This is a public driven privately owned forum.Selling accounts is bad.gets worse when you have like a signature army ranging from newbie to hero accounts enrolled in every other signature campaign.Furthermore,that guy is selling a Senior Account already enrolled in a signature campaign.Could it get worse ?The campaign manager would have hired the first owner depending on their post quality,changing the account owner simply can't guarantee that.In my humble opinion,I find it as a sheer act of breaking forum's rules ,which is the root problem of all the scams,I may add.

Hey see this is how a few good people support the cause.

Its not hard to find which account he is selling here,I will spend my free time to find out him
It should take no more then few minutes

I also tried to find out the Account he is selling but I couldn't find the list of enrolled users of bitmixer.
So, I left it. If you have them, I would like to help you in finding out

Hope you get my point,that is not derailing the thread ,its an attempt to stop account sales.

[jambola2]

Again,I'm not stepping out of my bounds by posting my opinions in his thread.This is a public driven privately owned forum.Selling accounts is bad.gets worse when you have like a signature army ranging from newbie to hero accounts enrolled in every other signature campaign.Furthermore,that guy is selling a Senior Account already enrolled in a signature campaign.Could it get worse ?The campaign manager would have hired the first owner depending on their post quality,changing the account owner simply can't guarantee that.In my humble opinion,I find it as a sheer act of breaking forum's rules ,which is the root problem of all the scams,I may add.

-snip-

Hope you get my point,that is not derailing the thread ,its an attempt to stop account sales.

Almost nobody argues that account sales are bad.
But if I recall correctly, the primary argument has been that banning account sales will not stop them.

The people selling accounts would just do so on another forum, or in private message or on Skype or whatever.

->Enforcing this would take more mod time
->Enforcing this wouldn't severely reduce accounts sold
->Enforcing this would drive traffic away from the forum to other forums where people can sell accounts

[Funny]

If I'm understanding the "trust system" correctly, it would only take a DT1 member to add an account to it's trust list and give it a positive rating of some kind correct for that account to be considered dark green and DT2? If that's the case I'm sure it's possible for any DT1 member to have multiple DT2 accounts,
~snip~

Well you are correct when you say a person is added to DT2 when a person from DT1 adds them to their trust list but the rest of the system works differently, giving an account dark green requires at least 2 members from DT to give the account positive trust. Also, I dont think and DT1 user will risk their place by adding their alts to DT2

@Funny If a Level 1 Default trust member adds someone to his trust list, he would be on Level 2 Default trust. (Giving a positive feedback is not required.)

Yeah adding a positive feedback does not make it dark green trust either. IIRC it is a function of number of trusted feedbacks and number of months after the very first feedback.

If someone is in Default trust level 1, he doesn't need another default trust level 2 anyway. Having your own trust list like most established members do will take care of all the problems.

Ok guys thanks for clearing that up for me on the trust thing, and I agree having your own trust list will eventually solve the problem long term. As far as DT1's not needing additional DT2 accounts? I would agree to a point, but greed does weird things to people. You can at least DOUBLE the value of a standard senior / hero member account by making it a DT2 it seems and with the price of Bitcoin soring at the moment? Probably not out of the realm of possibility :-) I truly hope it's not the case though, but you never know. I hope everyone has a good Memorial Day!