680 BTC Loan?

[burnside]

Posting here, for that much seems insane, right?

Probably.  But I thought it's worth a shot to see if there's any interest.

My original post about who I am, the project, and why I'm exploring bitcoin options is here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1485329.0

Looking at it from a loan perspective, the terms would likely be:

- 30,000 Loan Units, $10/ea, total $300,000 USD
- This would be a USD denominated loan with Bitcoins being used purely to facilitate easy transacting.  They would be converted and deposited into the company's Canadian bank account.
- I think two or three paths are possible:

• The loan could be conventional with an approximate 10% interest rate and payments starting January 2017.
• Or the loan could be a note convertible to cash with a 20% bonus at any future event where the company secures VC funding. (eg, in a triggering event the $300k loan becomes repayable at $360k + accrued interest.)
• If you are an accredited investor I believe a convertible note could also have an equity option.

- Lenders would get regular updates on game progress, access to the alphas & betas, and some kind of in-game benefit.
- Collateral isn't likely to happen.  I have already spent six digits bootstrapping the company and can't risk my home at this stage of my life.  However, I will mitigate risk as best I can by making sure we meet all of the criteria in the "Berkus Method" prior to accepting funding.  That is to say, I am funding the company myself through the extremely risky stages.

• Sound Idea
• Prototype
• Acquiring Quality Management
• Establishing Strategic Relationships
• Product Release

What do you guys think?  Thoughts?  Criticisms?

Cheers.

[Quickseller]

Posting here, for that much seems insane, right?

Probably. It is pretty rare that I see a successful large loan request that is even a fraction of what you are asking for. Even if you are legit (I have no idea if you are one way or another), I would be surprised to see a loan of this size filled. 

Based on your accounts recent posting activity, I think there is a chance that your account might be hacked (your account was inactive for a long time until after the forum's PW hashes were leaked, and then your account subsequently made a very small number of posts after the PW hashes were leaked). I would suggest that you provide some kind of cryptographic proof that you are the original owner of your account by signing a specific message from an address that you have either previously posted a very long time ago or from an address that is known to be associated with a service that you have previously run. 

[ps_jb]

• Sound Idea
• Prototype
• Acquiring Quality Management
• Establishing Strategic Relationships
• Product Release

What do you guys think?  Thoughts?  Criticisms?

Cheers.

VC will not give you a money. If you need a prototyping (means TRL ~4-5) your start-up will burn minimum $1M per year.

If your idea is really solid - and you can put it into the ears of potential investors - maximum they will give you 25k, which will be enough to make a Delaware LLC, optioned (non-exclusively) 1 IP (better if you are making a spin-off - will be cheaper) and pay taxes next April.

[burnside]

Posting here, for that much seems insane, right?

Probably. It is pretty rare that I see a successful large loan request that is even a fraction of what you are asking for. Even if you are legit (I have no idea if you are one way or another), I would be surprised to see a loan of this size filled. 

Based on your accounts recent posting activity, I think there is a chance that your account might be hacked (your account was inactive for a long time until after the forum's PW hashes were leaked, and then your account subsequently made a very small number of posts after the PW hashes were leaked). I would suggest that you provide some kind of cryptographic proof that you are the original owner of your account by signing a specific message from an address that you have either previously posted a very long time ago or from an address that is known to be associated with a service that you have previously run. 

Good idea.  How about some specific text injected into the source code on http://demo.btct.co?

What should I write?  Give me a sentence or something.

I could also sign someone's btct.co wallet address from back in the day, feel free to provide one.

VC will not give you a money. If you need a prototyping (means TRL ~4-5) your start-up will burn minimum $1M per year.

If your idea is really solid - and you can put it into the ears of potential investors - maximum they will give you 25k, which will be enough to make a Delaware LLC, optioned (non-exclusively) 1 IP (better if you are making a spin-off - will be cheaper) and pay taxes next April.

Not sure I completely understand this, but what I was trying to say is that I've already been funding development for six months and the prototype (the game) is nearing a beta stage and before accepting any cash I will have released it such that anyone can play and check it out. 

Cheers.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Yeah right.  People have an extremely difficult time getting a loan of $0.75 on this forum, and you're asking for 680 btc?  Not gonna happen without collateral and probably wouldn't happen even if you put up your house.

[burnside]

Yeah right.  People have an extremely difficult time getting a loan of $0.75 on this forum, and you're asking for 680 btc?  Not gonna happen without collateral and probably wouldn't happen even if you put up your house.

This is what I was thinking too, but all it takes is a few of the right people to see it.

Appreciate your input.

Cheers.

[ps_jb]

Not sure I completely understand this, but what I was trying to say is that I've already been funding development for six months and the prototype (the game) is nearing a beta stage and before accepting any cash I will have released it such that anyone can play and check it out. 

Cheers.

So in your case TRL is close to 7 then and obviously no IP involved

Looks like your chances to get a second phase of financing is easier - but not on this forum. Ebuchie nishebrody (nevermind, the definition of $0.75 members) do not have these money

Try IRL

[Batmanvsduecare]

This is not the place for such loan requests. First, better go for Long-term offers section https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=88.0.
Second, an even better section for you is Securities https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=78.0
Good luck with your project.

[burnside]

This is not the place for such loan requests. First, better go for Long-term offers section https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=88.0.
Second, an even better section for you is Securities https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=78.0
Good luck with your project.

Yup, I posted a more securities centric version on the securities side.  It's linked in the OP.

I wasn't sure when I crafted it what long term was, I don't see a cutoff in the description.  Any mods handy that can move this to long-term?

Thanks!

[xhomerx10]

Critcism.
You were barred from doing this for a period of two years from Dec 8th, 2014 by the SEC for not following the law. Two years have not passed.

Casinos are highly regulated ventures in Canada online or otherwise.  It seems you are heading down the same path as previously.  I find it hard to believed you are not being surveilled.  This smells of a sold account scam.

[xhomerx10]

Posting here, for that much seems insane, right?

Probably. It is pretty rare that I see a successful large loan request that is even a fraction of what you are asking for. Even if you are legit (I have no idea if you are one way or another), I would be surprised to see a loan of this size filled. 

Based on your accounts recent posting activity, I think there is a chance that your account might be hacked (your account was inactive for a long time until after the forum's PW hashes were leaked, and then your account subsequently made a very small number of posts after the PW hashes were leaked). I would suggest that you provide some kind of cryptographic proof that you are the original owner of your account by signing a specific message from an address that you have either previously posted a very long time ago or from an address that is known to be associated with a service that you have previously run. 

Good idea.  How about some specific text injected into the source code on http://demo.btct.co?

What should I write?  Give me a sentence or something.

I could also sign someone's btct.co wallet address from back in the day, feel free to provide one.

VC will not give you a money. If you need a prototyping (means TRL ~4-5) your start-up will burn minimum $1M per year.

If your idea is really solid - and you can put it into the ears of potential investors - maximum they will give you 25k, which will be enough to make a Delaware LLC, optioned (non-exclusively) 1 IP (better if you are making a spin-off - will be cheaper) and pay taxes next April.

Not sure I completely understand this, but what I was trying to say is that I've already been funding development for six months and the prototype (the game) is nearing a beta stage and before accepting any cash I will have released it such that anyone can play and check it out. 

Cheers.

 The whole site was for sale including Ethan's software.  We could never be sure it was Ethan injecting code or signing things.

[burnside]

Critcism.
You were barred from doing this for a period of two years from Dec 8th, 2014 by the SEC for not following the law. Two years have not passed.

Casinos are highly regulated ventures in Canada online or otherwise.  It seems you are heading down the same path as previously.  I find it hard to believed you are not being surveilled.  This smells of a sold account scam.

Thank you for the opportunity to clear up what seem to be some misconceptions.

I am barred until January 2017 from acting as a broker or dealer, from working with a broker or dealer, (ugh, which I think is why Coinbase closed my account.) from working in an investment company, from working as an investment advisor, and from being in any way involved in penny stocks.  I am not barred from seeking a loan or investment for my private company.  The dispute with the SEC resulted in a settlement, IE, I was not in trouble for not following the law, I was in trouble for not following their interpretation of the regulations.  The difference is subtle, and the nature of the settlement prevents me from going into detail, but the fact that they settled and didn't force it into court should speak volumes as to how much of a case they thought they had.  Nevermind the fact that after being under investigation for over a year, no charges of any kind were filed.  If I'd had the resources to defend myself in court against the SEC I would have, but I'd already spent what most would consider to be a fortune trying to defend myself.

With the game in development there are no casinos involved. The game is a free to play game in the social casino genre.  No real money... on facebook... that kind of thing.  Which is right up my alley given that my background over the last 5 years has been working on Bingo Blitz.  Check it out on facebook or mobile, it's pretty fun and it's made money hand over fist.

The whole site was for sale including Ethan's software.  We could never be sure it was Ethan injecting code or signing things.

I never sold it, but this is true.  Would another form of proof be acceptable?  Something on kattare.com perhaps?

Regardless, I won't be asking for cash until I have software to demonstrate on facebook, a full website up and running, etc.  I think the product will speak for itself when the time comes.

Cheers.

Edit/Add: I'll also note that I don't at all hold a grudge with the people at the SEC.  You have to keep in mind that at the same time they were investigating me, they had just discovered Bitcoin and the same team was working the Trendon Shavers (Bitcoin Savings & Trust) and Jon Montroll (BitFunder) cases.  We all know how those turned out.  It doesn't surprise me at all that they'd have the misconception that all of Bitcoin was a big scam.  I'd like to think that in some respects it was in working with me that helped them realize there was a lot more to it.  By the time the investigation was wrapping up and the settlement being worked out, their hands were tied and the $10,000 fine I think was the minimum they could issue.

Edit/Add: Dang, meant to link the settlement.  Actual settlement is here: https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2014/33-9685.pdf

Throughout the investigation, Burnside fully cooperated with the Commission staff, providing early and substantial assistance. He made himself available to Commission staff upon request, translated data into accessible formats while producing the raw data to permit independent verification, and he retained financial audit experts to assist in the generation and formatting of reports in order to enable the staff to quickly ascertain the scope and operation of his enterprises. Burnside’s efforts facilitated the staff’s investigation involving an emerging technology.

[BurtW]

I was thinking sold account due to the large posting gap but your  explanation above rings true, especially given my own dealings with Homeland Security and the "Justice" department.  I also wanted to go to trial and rub their noses in their extremely weak case but could not afford it after spending over $200,000 defending myself before we even talked about going to trial.  When they offered to drop all the criminal charges against me and all the separate civil charges against all the seized property for "only" $40,000 in cash and $40,000 in Bitcoins I had to begrudgingly pay them off because that was less that it would have cost me to take it to trial.

[burnside]

I was thinking sold account due to the large posting gap but you explanation above rings true, especially given my own dealings with Homeland Security and the "Justice" department.  I also wanted to go to trial and rub their noses in their extremely weak case but could not afford it after spending over $200,000 defending myself before we even talked about going to trial.  When they offered to drop all the criminal charges against me and all the separate civil charges against all the seized property for "only" $40,000 in cash and $40,000 in Bitcoins I had to begrudgingly pay them off because that was less that it would have cost me to take it to trial.

I don't blame anyone for being suspicious.  The forum's been hacked, people sell their accounts, accounts get compromised, any number of things happen.  I don't get why the forum still doesn't do 2FA... it's so simple to implement.

I've read your site and followed what happened.  Made me sick to my stomach.  I think I spent around double that.  That's the USD side without taking into account the 500 BTC I had to sell prematurely in the $90 - $100 range to fund the initial deposit, only to see it at $1000 just a few months later.  Then add insult to injury and I had to pay taxes on it all.  My life would be completely different today if they had just sent a takedown notice and left it at that.

There really needs to be some kind of protection against this sort of thing, where the US Gov has to reimburse you if they lose.

[xhomerx10]

Critcism.
You were barred from doing this for a period of two years from Dec 8th, 2014 by the SEC for not following the law. Two years have not passed.

Casinos are highly regulated ventures in Canada online or otherwise.  It seems you are heading down the same path as previously.  I find it hard to believed you are not being surveilled.  This smells of a sold account scam.

Thank you for the opportunity to clear up what seem to be some misconceptions.

I am barred until January 2017 from acting as a broker or dealer, from working with a broker or dealer, (ugh, which I think is why Coinbase closed my account.) from working in an investment company, from working as an investment advisor, and from being in any way involved in penny stocks.  I am not barred from seeking a loan or investment for my private company.  The dispute with the SEC resulted in a settlement, IE, I was not in trouble for not following the law, I was in trouble for not following their interpretation of the regulations.  The difference is subtle, and the nature of the settlement prevents me from going into detail, but the fact that they settled and didn't force it into court should speak volumes as to how much of a case they thought they had.  Nevermind the fact that after being under investigation for over a year, no charges of any kind were filed.  If I'd had the resources to defend myself in court against the SEC I would have, but I'd already spent what most would consider to be a fortune trying to defend myself.

With the game in development there are no casinos involved. The game is a free to play game in the social casino genre.  No real money... on facebook... that kind of thing.  Which is right up my alley given that my background over the last 5 years has been working on Bingo Blitz.  Check it out on facebook or mobile, it's pretty fun and it's made money hand over fist.

The whole site was for sale including Ethan's software.  We could never be sure it was Ethan injecting code or signing things.

I never sold it, but this is true.  Would another form of proof be acceptable?  Something on kattare.com perhaps?

Regardless, I won't be asking for cash until I have software to demonstrate on facebook, a full website up and running, etc.  I think the product will speak for itself when the time comes.

Cheers.

Edit/Add: I'll also note that I don't at all hold a grudge with the people at the SEC.  You have to keep in mind that at the same time they were investigating me, they had just discovered Bitcoin and the same team was working the Trendon Shavers (Bitcoin Savings & Trust) and Jon Montroll (BitFunder) cases.  We all know how those turned out.  It doesn't surprise me at all that they'd have the misconception that all of Bitcoin was a big scam.  I'd like to think that in some respects it was in working with me that helped them realize there was a lot more to it.  By the time the investigation was wrapping up and the settlement being worked out, their hands were tied and the $10,000 fine I think was the minimum they could issue.

Edit/Add: Dang, meant to link the settlement.  Actual settlement is here: https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2014/33-9685.pdf

Throughout the investigation, Burnside fully cooperated with the Commission staff, providing early and substantial assistance. He made himself available to Commission staff upon request, translated data into accessible formats while producing the raw data to permit independent verification, and he retained financial audit experts to assist in the generation and formatting of reports in order to enable the staff to quickly ascertain the scope and operation of his enterprises. Burnside’s efforts facilitated the staff’s investigation involving an emerging technology.

 Thanks very much for the explanations.
As a former investor at BTC-TC, I followed up on your ordeal (I would say our ordeal but you bore the brunt of it).  I don't understand how you were taken to task and yet those who listed shares of their companies for trading on your platform (and in some cases disappeared totally with investor funds) seemingly got off scot-free.  Okay, Asicminer is was based in China so SEC has no jurisdiction there but they were one of the few companies to find alternative platforms for investors to trade.... Anyway, that's all in the past now.

 I supposed you could prove who you are (if the need arises) with some gov't issued photoID and a photo of you holding it but that might not bode well for you (I mean in terms of identity theft).  Judging by the response to this thread, it doesn't seem like there are many members left on this forum who were around for BTC-TC though.  There are always people looking to make some return on an investment though and I have no doubt that you are the person who could make their dreams come true; you seem to have a sense for business and also a talent for programming.  As far as the loan goes, I think it would be best to seek the loan in US dollars (or bitcoin with the understanding that the repayment would be in USD), especially with the reward halving on the horizon.  Sadly, that rules out the Havelock option - unless they begin valuating in USD? Good luck with the venture; that's about all I can offer you at the moment because I don't have anywhere near 680BTC.

[truckerJoe]

bro, that's cool
but what collateral do you offer?
and also, how can you prove the account was not hacked/stolen/bought?
80 greens do not automatically make you eligible for such a huge loan
i mean people get called scammers here for requesting 0.01 without collateral
300grand us is a LOT of money
banks would require 1 million in assets in order to give you such

[burnside]

bro, that's cool
but what collateral do you offer?
and also, how can you prove the account was not hacked/stolen/bought?
80 greens do not automatically make you eligible for such a huge loan
i mean people get called scammers here for requesting 0.01 without collateral
300grand us is a LOT of money
banks would require 1 million in assets in order to give you such

This would be an investment into a startup, no collateral.  To mitigate that I am personally funding development for now and not accepting money until we have a product people can look at.

I can't prove the account was not hacked or sold.  Again though, I will not accept money until we have a product, and the process will be far more personal than just an agreement on the forums.

Correct, 80 greens, or whatever you see (it differs based on who you trust.) is not the grounds for this loan.  Far more compelling I think would by my past roles as CEO of Kattare, VP Technology at Playtika, etc.

$300k is definitely a lot of money and I agree, you can't be too careful. 

Cheers.

[Duomo]

Yes, people have that amount of bitcoin here on this forum. But what part of NO, do you not understand, no one wants to give an amount to buy a Lamborghini Huracan or a Ferrari 458 Speciale with that. What if you run away with the money. There is a difference between $3,000 and $300,000+, I am just starting to think you don't understand or don't comprehend or have the basic understand of the English Language. No one wants to give you that amount without collateral. Go find angel investors, no one here cares about funding your business with a irreverisble Crypto-Currency.

I have been here two years and approaching three and you by far are the individual who lacks the most intelligence I have come across.

It's just a no.

P.S
Wow, I never knew Hero Members could be so stupid but you have proved me wrong.

[BurtW]

Yes, people have that amount of bitcoin here on this forum. But what part of NO, do you not understand, no one wants to give an amount to buy a Lamborghini Huracan or a Ferrari 458 Speciale with that. What if you run away with the money. There is a difference between $3,000 and $300,000+, I am just starting to think you don't understand or don't comprehend or have the basic understand of the English Language. No one wants to give you that amount without collateral. Go find angel investors, no one here cares about funding your business with a irreverisble Crypto-Currency.

I have been here two years and approaching three and you by far are the individual who lacks the most intelligence I have come across.

It's just a no.

P.S
Wow, I never knew Hero Members could be so stupid but you have proved me wrong.

Calm down dude.  Those of us who have been around longer than you remember burnside.  No need to throw such a fit.  If you don't trust him or don't want to lend to him then don't.  Depending on how things go some of us might just invest.  You are too blinded by your rage or whatever that is to even consider it.  Fine.  We all have your opinion right there in my quote so there is no need for you to ever come back to this thread.

[burnside]

Yes, people have that amount of bitcoin here on this forum. But what part of NO, do you not understand, no one wants to give an amount to buy a Lamborghini Huracan or a Ferrari 458 Speciale with that. What if you run away with the money. There is a difference between $3,000 and $300,000+, I am just starting to think you don't understand or don't comprehend or have the basic understand of the English Language. No one wants to give you that amount without collateral. Go find angel investors, no one here cares about funding your business with a irreverisble Crypto-Currency.

I have been here two years and approaching three and you by far are the individual who lacks the most intelligence I have come across.

It's just a no.

P.S
Wow, I never knew Hero Members could be so stupid but you have proved me wrong.

It's good to get everyone's opinion.  It's what I'm here for.  Keeps me objective.

Thanks for your input.

I will add that I drive an '04 Expedition, despite many opportunities over the last couple years to "Tesla up" at other's expense.