Paypal chargeback concerns for Bitcoin related transaction is a myth

[sbtctalk]

We have heard many times not to sell bitcoins through paypal due to chargeback concerns. Some new comers to bitcoins may have paid a high premium for bitcoins when they purchased through paypal.

The high premium is due to chargeback concern.

However, from Paypal perspective, they will drop chargeback reviews when it comes to bitcoin related transactions.

I filed a chargeback against MiningSweden for failing to reach his end of the deal and I wasn't successful.

Status

After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favour at this time.

The item violates the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy. It's ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection.

Does this justify the high premium for buyers who buy through Paypal?

[mobnepal]

Yes its well known fact paypal don't like to deal with bitcoin transactions but if you have filled chargebacks with detail as the purchased digital good is not as described by seller you may have got that refund. But depends on different factor, like miningsweden operated as cloud mining service and i don't think paypal didn't know that it is related to bitcoin. So if they allow merchant to accept paypal to buy bitcoin related service than why they says it is against their TOS. I actually hate paypal.

[ObscureBean]

Well people have been buying/selling Bitcoin on eBay for years. PayPal would've put an end to this by now if it was really against it. BTW you should take a look at the prices on eBay, sometimes it's like twice the actual rate and people buy it anyway 

[NorrisK]

Well people have been buying/selling Bitcoin on eBay for years. PayPal would've put an end to this by now if it was really against it. BTW you should take a look at the prices on eBay, sometimes it's like twice the actual rate and people buy it anyway 

I don't understand why anyone would use any of these services when many alternatives are now coming up.

Not only do they make it easier to buy bitcoin, they also make it much easier to do so..

It would be good news if paypal stopped considering chargebacks on bitcoin. They only reason they should do it is if the seller can't provide a transaction ID to the address that the buyer specified.

[NUFCrichard]

The problem is that generally Paypal don't really go through the details of a transaction.
Someone buys something, they say it didn't arrive, you can't prove that you sent it, they get their money back.

It would be a farce for Paypay to have a blockchain team to check if transactions were actually made.  They should just add an unreversible transaction mode, then it would be easy.

[Herbert2020]

i don't know what MiningSweden is but i am assuming that it is not a person but more of a company or service that does this kind of thing.

so i have to say this is normal the problem with charge-back is mostly affecting individuals meaning if you buy from another person and pay with paypal you can easily get a charge back and paypal wouldn't mind at all.

[merelcoin]

I have no experience with buying bitcoins using paypal, but the sheer ammount of newbies opening threads willing to buy BTC with PP speaks louder than a thousand words
Maybe you cannot charge back in the classical way, but i'm pretty sure that if somebody uses a hacked account to buy BTC, and the original owner files a complaint, a chargeback will be executed, no matter what the hacker bought (be it bitcoins, a penthouse subscription or new furniture).
I'm pretty sure there are several other ways of forcing a PP chargeback.

@OP: i do think you did the right thing, you were honest to PP. I don't like it when people start to make false claims or twist reality to make claims (even if it's to paypal). That being said, you probably had a better chance of getting your money back if you lied to them, but you would have risked other problems with law enforcement (i suppose).

[mkc]

My feeling is Paypal don't want to hear about Bitcoin, so if it is a Bitcoin related transaction, the first one mentioned Bitcoin will lose. And then Paypal will protect buyer, if buyer claim he receive something not the same as description, then Paypal will refund him...

[LiteCoinGuy]

[Wendigo]

I think PayPal tends to side with the buyers usually because of their buyers protection policy but for digital goods and services it's a little bit tricky as PayPal doesn't want to review disputes where there are intangible goods involved. This is not uncommon for fiat purchases of digital products as well because PayPal simply don't want to mess with dubious cases where the outcome is uncertain and they will need to drag these investigations for months. If you are the one scammed for paying PayPal in exchange for Bitcoins and the payee didn't deliver the coins I think PayPal won't consider your dispute and your only option would be to inform your bank directly about this bad transaction and see if they could do anything to reverse it otherwise you are simply out of luck.

[GetClams.com]

i've read someone says that paypal forbid any kind of transaction which involve any cryptocurrency just like exchanging your dollars to bitcoin,so if it's right,any chargeback request would be always failing because it's break their rule,so,no buyer protection in this case,in other side,seller will take an advantage of this

You can fund ecoin with paypal in some countries.

edit: ecoin now wirex debit cards

[franky1]

charge back scams via paypal do happen.

the thing is that chargeback scammers know the exact wording to use to ensure they get their cash back when they scam someone.

hoever when u flip the scenario around
and your an innocent person trying to buy bitcoin for the first time, and its the bitcoin holder that is scamming you.. then unless you are experienced with how paypal claims work, you wont get your funds back..


scammers make it their lifes ambition to find the weak loopholes that can be abused in their favour both from buying bitcoin and chargeback scamming.. or selling bitcoin in a way that they never have to hand the coin over and ensure the victim cant chargeback.

the safe bet is to just not use bitcoin.
why pay double the price and be left with nothing. its far better to transfer paypal funds back into a regular bank account and buy bitcoin the proper legit way via trusted services.

here is the biggest rule ever..
DO NOT BUY FROM PEOPLE ADVERTISING ONLY ON THIS FORUM.

if they were legit they would not be using this forum as their sole advertising platform.
next time ask for escrow. many people use localbitcoins as the escrow because its a built in service controlled by code, rather then having to trust a person.

but the best way is to use the legit exchanges

[ab8989]

I read the OP:s main message to be

"Hooray, we can all start using paypal safely for buying and selling bitcoins because doing that is a violation against their rules which they are trying to clamp down and because I suffered a loss when paypal ruled against me in one such case and that is a proof that dealing with paypal is absolutely safe."

Anyone see any problem with that kind of thought?

[DeathAngel]

I would never transact with bitcoin's on paypal unless I had a highly respected/trusted escrow helping me. I've seen way too many horror stories.

[BTCLovingDude]

i have seen a lot of people getting scammed because of the paypal charge-back.

when you see that users don't like using paypal for buying bitcoin it has a reason it is not a coincidence.

[pedrog]

Well, you didn't bought bitcoin, you invested in a ponzi scheme, or an advance-fee scam and that violates Paypal's Acceptable Use Policy, probably MiningSweden lost their account and all funds still in the account.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full

3. relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other "get rich quick" schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, (e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f) are associated with the sale of traveler's checks or money orders, (h) involve currency exchanges or check cashing businesses, (i) involve certain credit repair, debt settlement services, credit transactions or insurance activities, or (k) involve offering or receiving payments for the purpose of bribery or corruption.

4. involve the sales of products or services identified by government agencies to have a high likelihood of being fraudulent.

[Rubberduckie]

The problem is that generally Paypal don't really go through the details of a transaction.
Someone buys something, they say it didn't arrive, you can't prove that you sent it, they get their money back.

It would be a farce for Paypay to have a blockchain team to check if transactions were actually made.  They should just add an unreversible transaction mode, then it would be easy.

love the un reversable idea! this would solve alot and save them time.

[sbtctalk]

I read the OP:s main message to be

"Hooray, we can all start using paypal safely for buying and selling bitcoins because doing that is a violation against their rules which they are trying to clamp down and because I suffered a loss when paypal ruled against me in one such case and that is a proof that dealing with paypal is absolutely safe."

Anyone see any problem with that kind of thought?

This is a first hand encounter of Paypal and bitcoins. Before this incident, all I've got was hearsay. What happened to me is totally different from the hearsay I've heard.

[European Central Bank]

I thought Paypal protection was only available for actual stuff? Digital goods are never covered. I might be wrong about it. Either way I'd never buy any via Ebay. The prices are incredible. I guess the people selling on there are preying on the dumb.

[sbtctalk]

I thought Paypal protection was only available for actual stuff? Digital goods are never covered. I might be wrong about it. Either way I'd never buy any via Ebay. The prices are incredible. I guess the people selling on there are preying on the dumb.

But many of my generation and the slightly older gen grew up in the era of Paypal and eBay... and Yahoo! It is difficult to shake off the relatively positive image these sites have.