I am about to do something massivley stupid

[Jutarul]

Taking out a loan with the intent to file bankruptcy is fraud. Not to mention that it is unethical even from a libertarian viewpoint.

this

we already got enough bloodsuckers in our economy. we don't need to breed even more.

taking risk and suffer the consequences is entrepreneurial, taking risk and dumping it on society is bankish.

[asdf]

All I can say is, great idea, try to get a fixed interest rate. The USD is going to tank some time in the next few years and your liability will evaporate.

[tvbcof]

Taking out a loan with the intent to file bankruptcy is fraud. Not to mention that it is unethical even from a libertarian viewpoint.

this

we already got enough bloodsuckers in our economy. we don't need to breed even more.

taking risk and suffer the consequences is entrepreneurial, taking risk and dumping it on society is bankish.

It's true.  A lot of funding for education comes from my tax dollars, and I don't really wish to see them used in highly speculative bets.  OTOH, I don't want to see them used to kill kids in Afghanistan either, but there is a limited amount I can do about it.

In the particular case under discussion here, the more money pumped into the Bitcoin economy, the higher will go the BTC values and thus the bigger the potential for me to become personally enriched.  It's one place where my tax dollars could work for me personally, even if it is by a somewhat circuitous route.

[XxionxX]

I would suggest taking out as much of a loan in all categories as you can get, selling all of your possessions, assets, etc. Then buying BTC and filing for bankruptcy. They can't take your Bitcoins, and they will have nothing else to take. Then restart your life with your billions in Bitcoins.

I could also raid all of my neighbours houses for money and just not take a loan.

No thanks, I like freedom and good credit scores.

[Grafzep]

However you justify this to yourself, gambling with the borrowed money is stupid and factoring in default immoral. You'll keep the upside while your creditors can eat the downside?

You need to grow up. Stop leeching off your parents - haven't they done enough? Stop whining about how little you earn and how tough it is. Do something about it like an adult would. Something that isn't just another someone-else-will-pick it-up fantasy. Earn the money and then gamble it if you must.

The entrepreneurs that have been mentioned borrowed money to invest in themselves and their new ideas and their hard work. And usually the money was as equity - the funders had a stake in the success. Yet you are looking to stiff the people that have invested in you.

[XxionxX]

If you have a credit card with a decent limit, a good way to get BTC for credit is to sell something in demand at cost on BitMit and have it shipped to the buyer while paying for it with your card. There are some wholesale companies out there that allow drop shipping, if you find a decent one you could even make a few bitcents.

Thank you for the suggestion, I might just do this. In fact, if this is successful then I might keep doing it. Despite the haters, debt has its place in the world. I want to take risks which I am prepared to handle, I might lose and I might win. I just don't want to sit around and wait anymore I would rather learn lessons and work at understanding money better.

If this fails I will probably do the same thing again next year. I might try and start a business or I might try and invest in something else. I can always pay off my debt, but I cannot get ahead without it. It leverages the buying power I have and if I make enough back I am that much further ahead. If I lose my money, I was going to save it or buy something lame with it anyway. I could do that or I could try and make my money make more money for me. This way forces me to use the amount in a focused manner and learn from my mistakes.

It takes money to make money.

[tvbcof]

No thanks, I like freedom and good credit scores.

Already planning for a life of debt peonage, eh?  I guess you've had enough formal schooling already.

[XxionxX]

However you justify this to yourself, gambling with the borrowed money is stupid and factoring in default immoral. You'll keep the upside while your creditors can eat the downside?

You need to grow up. Stop leeching off your parents - haven't they done enough? Stop whining about how little you earn and how tough it is. Do something about it like an adult would. Something that isn't just another someone-else-will-pick it-up fantasy. Earn the money and then gamble it if you must.

The entrepreneurs that have been mentioned borrowed money to invest in themselves and their new ideas and their hard work. And usually the money was as equity - the funders had a stake in the success. Yet you are looking to stiff the people that have invested in you.

Again with the people saying I am going to default. Why in the world would I default? It is bad for me in every way. Stop reading the last few random posters and read what I am saying. How annoying.

I AM NOT GOING TO DEFAULT ON MY LOAN, BIG OR SMALL. READ THE THREAD. I CONSIDER IT IMMORAL TO DEFAULT AND NOT PAY MY DUES.

Stop leeching off your parents

You don't know me, you don't know anything. You don't even know what you are saying. You are making up an image of me and you have no idea who I am or what my situation is. Why don't you read the thread and find out? And just like the last person who could not keep their tongue, I will just ignore you if you keep it up. I don't care what you have to say if you can't discuss it like a human. Even the most negative people were able to voice their opinions without name calling and I was able to learn from them.

Be civil or gtfo.

[XxionxX]

No thanks, I like freedom and good credit scores.

Already planning for a life of debt peonage, eh?  I guess you've had enough formal schooling already.

And what do you think I should do? I am always open to ideas.

I know what you are talking about but I am in disagreement with you. Just leave it at that.

[rpietila]

If the loan you are taking is entirely repayable from your excess income in about 2 years, then there is no reason not to do it. Except, people tend to be anxious over something they cannot afford. The quality of life may deteriorate if you are among such people.

I heard that in the US people get student loans of up to $100k, and their education does not necessarily give them any edge in the marketplace. That is reckless. I wouldn't do it. Instead I started my business at the age of 20 and have never graduated (32). I also loaned €20k for stock speculation when I was 19 and that was a stupid idea because I did not know what I was doing.

It seems that $6k you're suggesting is quite conservative. Make a business plan for the whole operation in writing, and stick to it. Go for it!

[Jaw3bmasters]

Dude, what is it you need? ............ a log/thread of all the people who thought this was a bad idea, just to rub it in with hot sauce later.

.....meh......

[molecular]

OP isn't that fraud?  Taking a personal loan or using a credit card is one thing but how exactly are you planning on getting a student loan for "not being a student".

He's probably going to learn more valuable lessons than those that most people learn by going to university. So I think at least morally it's fine.

[molecular]

Thailand's not so bad

I hear there are job opportunities all over the world for native speakers to teach English...

nah. After the american empire has fallen, noone wants to learn english anymore. Mandarin and spanish teachers are going to be in demand.

[XxionxX]

If the loan you are taking is entirely repayable from your excess income in about 2 years, then there is no reason not to do it. Except, people tend to be anxious over something they cannot afford. The quality of life may deteriorate if you are among such people.

I heard that in the US people get student loans of up to $100k, and their education does not necessarily give them any edge in the marketplace. That is reckless. I wouldn't do it. Instead I started my business at the age of 20 and have never graduated (32). I also loaned €20k for stock speculation when I was 19 and that was a stupid idea because I did not know what I was doing.

It seems that $6k you're suggesting is quite conservative. Make a business plan for the whole operation in writing, and stick to it. Go for it!

You read my mind.

I really don't expect my loan to cause me undue stress, the original one yes, but not this little one. I just don't care if I lose it. That is my choice to make.

Dude, what is it you need? ............ a log/thread of all the people who thought this was a bad idea, just to rub it in with hot sauce later.

.....meh......

What do you need? I am learning loads and I have totally revamped my plan. And as for rubbing it in, have you considered that I would also be able to do a victory dance if I win? Go big or go home. You can only stand to win big if you stand to lose big. I could go bet it all on red, but I feel that this is a smarter plan.

[molecular]

I don't think buying right now is a good idea. I just can't see this high price being sustainable.

I sense wishful thinking! The painful outlook of having bought a car with twice as many coins as it would cost now. I don't remember your numbers and I know it's not your kind of car, but couldn't you get that Porsche Cayman for the same amount of coins as your Prius has cost you a couple of weeks ago?

I know I'm being kind of mean here, but I'm sure you can take it the right way and I can't resist the bull talk today

[rpietila]

Thailand's not so bad

I hear there are job opportunities all over the world for native speakers to teach English...

nah. After the american empire has fallen, noone wants to learn english anymore. Mandarin and spanish teachers are going to be in demand.

No need to be even native. My sister was offered 30 kTHB/mo, which, IIRC, buys you a cool lifestyle.

[XxionxX]

OP isn't that fraud?  Taking a personal loan or using a credit card is one thing but how exactly are you planning on getting a student loan for "not being a student".

He's probably going to learn more valuable lessons than those that most people learn by going to university. So I think at least morally it's fine.

Why thank you, but I will be taking a smaller non-student loan ($6k) It will be easier for me to handle if I fail.

I also feel that I will learn more this way, my peers are doing terribly compared to me and they all have degrees! They can't pay their massive debts and they can't get a job to do so. I feel that my idea is much less risky than what they did, getting a degree with that much debt scares the crap out of me. Worst case scenario I learn that I suck at predicting markets or I get better at it when I try again You can't buy that experience with a degree.

[rpietila]

OP isn't that fraud?  Taking a personal loan or using a credit card is one thing but how exactly are you planning on getting a student loan for "not being a student".

He's probably going to learn more valuable lessons than those that most people learn by going to university. So I think at least morally it's fine.

Why thank you, but I will be taking a smaller non-student loan ($6k) It will be easier for me to handle if I fail.

I also feel that I will learn more this way, my peers are doing terribly compared to me and they all have degrees! They can't pay their massive debts and they can't get a job to do so. I feel that my idea is much less risky than what they did, getting a degree with that much debt scares the crap out of me. Worst case scenario I learn that I suck at predicting markets or I get better at it when I try again You can't buy that experience with a degree.

Yeah, I also became a millionaire AFTER losing that 20k (and needed to work instead of studying partly because of the debt).

[Jutarul]

Why thank you, but I will be taking a smaller non-student loan ($6k) It will be easier for me to handle if I fail.

I also feel that I will learn more this way, my peers are doing terribly compared to me and they all have degrees! They can't pay their massive debts and they can't get a job to do so. I feel that my idea is much less risky than what they did, getting a degree with that much debt scares the crap out of me. Worst case scenario I learn that I suck at predicting markets or I get better at it when I try again You can't buy that experience with a degree.

You already made the decision to do it. You're just scared. Happens to a lot of people.
Rule of thumb: Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

[Le Happy Merchant]

Thailand's not so bad

I hear there are job opportunities all over the world for native speakers to teach English...

JET program.