BFL - Update 3/4

[Bogart]

Actually I meant expensive in the sense of recouping the NRE with shipped product and not the actual cost of the wafer.

They'll just make more wafers.  They're not gonna lose any orders for having sacrificed that one wafer (IMO).

It still told them that the chips operate at a basic level.  The test could have gone the other way where the chips didn't operate at all, and they would have needed to start looking for a cause right away.

I think that the manually-wirebound test had value.

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[Puppet]

This whole testing fiasco is really a wonderment.  To lose that many precious (and expensive) chips to only gain a marginal amount of useful information is insane.  At any company I have worked for that kind of decision would have landed someone a pink slip.

To be fair, the cost of a processed 65nm wafer is likely somewhere between $1500-$2000. Not exactly a fortune.

Avalon pays (it is estimated) about 4k per wafer at 110nm.

How is BFL paying half that at 65nm? Somehow your estimates sounds kinda off.

Actually my estimate is if anything, rather high for a 200mm wafer. Have a look here:
http://www.gsaglobal.org/email/2010/general/0222w.htm

If they are using 300mm wafers it might be over $2000, but it still wont cost a fortune, particularly not on such old processes. Note that this doesnt include testing, dicing and packaging, which may cost more than the wafer, but BFL didnt do that on their "burnt" wafer anyway.

[cedivad]

http://bitbet.us/bet/265/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-april-1st/

^ there is a lot of free money for your here, Josh!

[mtminer]

This whole testing fiasco is really a wonderment.  To lose that many precious (and expensive) chips to only gain a marginal amount of useful information is insane.  At any company I have worked for that kind of decision would have landed someone a pink slip.

To be fair, the cost of a processed 65nm wafer is likely somewhere between $1500-$2000. Not exactly a fortune.

Avalon pays (it is estimated) about 4k per wafer at 110nm.

How is BFL paying half that at 65nm? Somehow your estimates sounds kinda off.

How many chips per wafer does Avalon get?

[Cablez]

Actually I meant expensive in the sense of recouping the NRE with shipped product and not the actual cost of the wafer.

They'll just make more wafers.  They're not gonna lose any orders for having sacrificed that one wafer (IMO).

It still told them that the chips operate at a basic level.  The test could have gone the other way where the chips didn't operate at all, and they would have needed to start looking for a cause right away.

I think that the manually-wirebound test had value.

I guess time will tell.

[Aseras]

Sounds like they buffered the clocks too much

[PuertoLibre]

This whole testing fiasco is really a wonderment.  To lose that many precious (and expensive) chips to only gain a marginal amount of useful information is insane.  At any company I have worked for that kind of decision would have landed someone a pink slip.

To be fair, the cost of a processed 65nm wafer is likely somewhere between $1500-$2000. Not exactly a fortune.

Avalon pays (it is estimated) about 4k per wafer at 110nm.

How is BFL paying half that at 65nm? Somehow your estimates sounds kinda off.

How many chips per wafer does Avalon get?

I don't recall. I think it may have been 4,000 chips per wafer. I only recall that the die size is 7x7mm while BFL's is 15x15.

[MrTeal]

This whole testing fiasco is really a wonderment.  To lose that many precious (and expensive) chips to only gain a marginal amount of useful information is insane.  At any company I have worked for that kind of decision would have landed someone a pink slip.

To be fair, the cost of a processed 65nm wafer is likely somewhere between $1500-$2000. Not exactly a fortune.

Avalon pays (it is estimated) about 4k per wafer at 110nm.

How is BFL paying half that at 65nm? Somehow your estimates sounds kinda off.

How many chips per wafer does Avalon get?

I don't recall. I think it may have been 4,000 chips per wafer. I only recall that the die size is 7x7mm while BFL's is 15x15.

I believe Avalon's die size is 4x4 and the packaged QFN size is 7x7, but I don't feel like looking it up. I might have ASICMiner's die size instead, but either way the actual die size will be less than 7x7.

[PuertoLibre]

That is one damn tiny chip!

(If it is ASICMiners specs...wow, they must have a hell of alot of chips worth to bring online.)

[Puppet]

I also suspect the BFL package is 15x15, not the die. 15x15 would be quite large and the die seems rectangular. 15mm is a standard package size though.

[MrTeal]

I also suspect the BFL package is 15x15, not the die. 15x15 would be quite large and the die seems rectangular. 15mm is a standard package size though.

BFL's die is 7.5mmx7.5mm.

[MrTeal]

This whole testing fiasco is really a wonderment.  To lose that many precious (and expensive) chips to only gain a marginal amount of useful information is insane.  At any company I have worked for that kind of decision would have landed someone a pink slip.

To be fair, the cost of a processed 65nm wafer is likely somewhere between $1500-$2000. Not exactly a fortune.

Avalon pays (it is estimated) about 4k per wafer at 110nm.

How is BFL paying half that at 65nm? Somehow your estimates sounds kinda off.

Actually my estimate is if anything, rather high for a 200mm wafer. Have a look here:
http://www.gsaglobal.org/email/2010/general/0222w.htm

If they are using 300mm wafers it might be over $2000, but it still wont cost a fortune, particularly not on such old processes. Note that this doesnt include testing, dicing and packaging, which may cost more than the wafer, but BFL didnt do that on their "burnt" wafer anyway.

BFL is using a 300mm wafer.

[silvalley]

This whole testing fiasco is really a wonderment.  To lose that many precious (and expensive) chips to only gain a marginal amount of useful information is insane.  At any company I have worked for that kind of decision would have landed someone a pink slip.

To be fair, the cost of a processed 65nm wafer is likely somewhere between $1500-$2000. Not exactly a fortune.

Avalon pays (it is estimated) about 4k per wafer at 110nm.

How is BFL paying half that at 65nm? Somehow your estimates sounds kinda off.

110nm is an old  technology. You cant expect GH from that. If it was possible the miners with Cyclone and Spartan FPGA already can be made. They aren't so dont be fool to be involved in this ASIC hoax. Also 67117 in btcguild is proxy pool.
regards.

[creativex]

This whole testing fiasco is really a wonderment.  To lose that many precious (and expensive) chips to only gain a marginal amount of useful information is insane.  At any company I have worked for that kind of decision would have landed someone a pink slip.

To be fair, the cost of a processed 65nm wafer is likely somewhere between $1500-$2000. Not exactly a fortune.

Avalon pays (it is estimated) about 4k per wafer at 110nm.

How is BFL paying half that at 65nm? Somehow your estimates sounds kinda off.

110nm is an old  technology. You cant expect GH from that. If it was possible the miners with Cyclone and Spartan FPGA already can be made. They aren't so dont be fool to be involved in this ASIC hoax. Also 67117 in btcguild is proxy pool.

Umm...since you essentially called friedcat and eleuthria liars and they have just a wee bit more street cred around here than a newb using an account created last week...I'm gonna have to go ahead and ask you for some kind of evidence on this. Nothing personal you understand.

This:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148162.0

...btw sir sockpuppet does NOT count as evidence.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

This whole testing fiasco is really a wonderment.  To lose that many precious (and expensive) chips to only gain a marginal amount of useful information is insane.  At any company I have worked for that kind of decision would have landed someone a pink slip.

To be fair, the cost of a processed 65nm wafer is likely somewhere between $1500-$2000. Not exactly a fortune.

Avalon pays (it is estimated) about 4k per wafer at 110nm.

How is BFL paying half that at 65nm? Somehow your estimates sounds kinda off.

110nm is an old  technology. You cant expect GH from that. If it was possible the miners with Cyclone and Spartan FPGA already can be made. They aren't so dont be fool to be involved in this ASIC hoax. Also 67117 in btcguild is proxy pool.

Umm...since you essentially called friedcat and eleuthria liars and they have just a wee bit more street cred around here than a newb using an account created last week...I'm gonna have to go ahead and ask you for some kind of evidence on this. Nothing personal you understand.

This:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148162.0

...btw sir sockpuppet does NOT count as evidence.

Hello, nice forum and nice topics!

[creativex]

Hello, for those who think GPU is out of business is wrong. Regular FPGA boards just output hash power like RADEON 5770 - 200Mh/s for a hardware cost  5 times 5770, and you still need PC to operate with FPGA board.The long waiting ASIC's never released and probaby not soon, until theese days ASIC's are  considered as scam. But may i have your attention. I have small tech company based in Sofia , Bulgaria (european unit). I made some research on custom hardware for bitcoin mining. The problem is that the good FPGA chips that can output reasonable hash power costs several thausands dolllars each. I found good alternative with one chinese chip manufactorer but still the working prototype will be an expensive investment, at least for me. What i want to build is device that is capable of 2GH/s with own web server and internet connection for pool mining management (because you dont want dedicated PC with the miner) all for retail cost under 500$. The invention will cost around 10,000$ only for materials, my dedicated working hours are not counted and doesnt matter. To reach the 500$ barier two things must be availble- 1st own Pick&place machines (which i dont have), 2nd a good amount of chip order(the more chips, the less the price) for chinese  fabric. A good start is around 130,000$, for prototype, pnp machines, and the chip order. What i have is  a testing equipment.
       So if there are persons who want to invest, or donate for my miner all will be welcome. The first 10,000$ will show if it is possible and is considered as risk investment, which i can not return. If the prototype working with the required parametters the money above first 10,000$ will be considered as donation, investment or preorder(every participant can choose what it is). I can't put  my company info and email here because i dont want spam, but i can give all details in personal. Only serios mind please, my english isnt good for that i can't argue with everybody.
 
Thank you for the time!
regards
Georgi Krachmarov
g_krachmarov@yahoo.com

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148175.msg1572769#msg1572769

TAKE MY MONEY NOW!

[silvalley]

Hello, for those who think GPU is out of business is wrong. Regular FPGA boards just output hash power like RADEON 5770 - 200Mh/s for a hardware cost  5 times 5770, and you still need PC to operate with FPGA board.The long waiting ASIC's never released and probaby not soon, until theese days ASIC's are  considered as scam. But may i have your attention. I have small tech company based in Sofia , Bulgaria (european unit). I made some research on custom hardware for bitcoin mining. The problem is that the good FPGA chips that can output reasonable hash power costs several thausands dolllars each. I found good alternative with one chinese chip manufactorer but still the working prototype will be an expensive investment, at least for me. What i want to build is device that is capable of 2GH/s with own web server and internet connection for pool mining management (because you dont want dedicated PC with the miner) all for retail cost under 500$. The invention will cost around 10,000$ only for materials, my dedicated working hours are not counted and doesnt matter. To reach the 500$ barier two things must be availble- 1st own Pick&place machines (which i dont have), 2nd a good amount of chip order(the more chips, the less the price) for chinese  fabric. A good start is around 130,000$, for prototype, pnp machines, and the chip order. What i have is  a testing equipment.
       So if there are persons who want to invest, or donate for my miner all will be welcome. The first 10,000$ will show if it is possible and is considered as risk investment, which i can not return. If the prototype working with the required parametters the money above first 10,000$ will be considered as donation, investment or preorder(every participant can choose what it is). I can't put  my company info and email here because i dont want spam, but i can give all details in personal. Only serios mind please, my english isnt good for that i can't argue with everybody.
 
Thank you for the time!
regards
Georgi Krachmarov
g_krachmarov@yahoo.com

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148175.msg1572769#msg1572769

TAKE MY MONEY NOW!

It's funny . That i am newbie in this forum does nothing to what i am and what i can . It is not right for me as a company onwer to say that but as far as i know BFL sales  mining equipment since 2011 and they even dont have any prototype yet, and they will ship thausends of them in any moment, very funny. There are some pictures of ASIC miners  like  PCB's and boxes, but no VIDEO that shows  it actualy working! If i have build working one l would make many  videos that shows how it work realtime with statistics, yeah, definetily would  do that like all the good guys in you tube that build bitcoin farms with many GPU's.
for me 67117 is proxy pool with big rejection rate.
It is fine to call me newbie. 

[creativex]

It's funny . That i am newbie in this forum does nothing to what i am and what i can . It is not right for me as a company onwer to say that but as far as i know BFL sales  mining equipment since 2011 and they even dont have any prototype yet, and they will ship thausends of them in any moment, very funny. There are some pictures of ASIC miners  like  PCB's and boxes, but no VIDEO that shows  it actualy working! If i have build working one l would make many  videos that shows how it work realtime with statistics, yeah, definetily would  do that like all the good guys in you tube that build bitcoin farms with many GPU's.
for me 67117 is proxy pool with big rejection rate.
It is fine to call me newbie.

I'll not be put in the position of defending BFL. Let em have it, they're completely full of sh1t.

You lose credibility immediately however when you lump jgarzik, friedcat, eleuthria, and bitcoin foundation in with the butterfly cowboys.

[LazyOtto]

...

You lose credibility immediately

Yep.

I think it is the first time I've hit the ignore button on someone with such a low post count. 

[juggalodarkclow]

new pics
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/dbtgallery.php?do=browse_user&userid=1&gal=gallery&id=7&type=albums