The DAO

[bones261]

Price still stable 0.00022

stable I don't like this word

stable is better than down  , im bought DAO when @22k sat, hope the price of DAO will up because i see so many people got attracts with DAO.

Sure, better than down

  But it is down. It is consistently worth less than the ETH that backs it up. Some would say the discount comes because of the illiquidity, since it would take a minimum of 48 days to get your ETH back, if you successfully went through the split process. There is a flaw in this process that would allow someone to stalk you, so you could not get your ETH back.
  I personally think this is all by design. I think the ETH notables, many who are now listed as curators for the DAO, wanted to find a way to pump up ETH and then tie up a good portion of the ETH indefinitely. That way they have less ETH available to flood the markets, and it can make their pump and dump a little easier.
  I think it is interesting that it has been almost two weeks and we have yet to see an official proposal from slock-it. They were supposed to be one of the first true proposals.
  What we see instead is soon after the DAO launched, out comes a paper pointing out all of the security flaws. Now we have a proposal that wants to put a moratorium on any proposals until they can fix these flaws. Although this proposal is not backed up with a smart contract to enforce it, I'm sure the currators will be more than happy to comply with the "suggestion." Why? Because the DAO was designed to tie up the ETH as long as possible, so it won't hit the market.
  I think it will be a mighty long time, if ever, that we will see a proposal that actually distributes ETH to a potential contractor. Happy bag holding until that happens. Don't hold your breath though.

[Zer0Sum]

Price still stable 0.00022

stable I don't like this word

stable is better than down  , im bought DAO when @22k sat, hope the price of DAO will up because i see so many people got attracts with DAO.

Sure, better than down

  But it is down. It is consistently worth less than the ETH that backs it up. Some would say the discount comes because of the illiquidity, since it would take a minimum of 48 days to get your ETH back, if you successfully went through the split process. There is a flaw in this process that would allow someone to stalk you, so you could not get your ETH back.
  I personally think this is all by design. I think the ETH notables, many who are now listed as curators for the DAO, wanted to find a way to pump up ETH and then tie up a good portion of the ETH indefinitely. That way they have less ETH available to flood the markets, and it can make their pump and dump a little easier.
  I think it is interesting that it has been almost two weeks and we have yet to see an official proposal from slock-it. They were supposed to be one of the first true proposals.
  What we see instead is soon after the DAO launched, out comes a paper pointing out all of the security flaws. Now we have a proposal that wants to put a moratorium on any proposals until they can fix these flaws. Although this proposal is not backed up with a smart contract to enforce it, I'm sure the currators will be more than happy to comply with the "suggestion." Why? Because the DAO was designed to tie up the ETH as long as possible, so it won't hit the market.
  I think it will be a mighty long time, if ever, that we will see a proposal that actually distributes ETH to a potential contractor. Happy bag holding until that happens. Don't hold your breath though.

The DAO is possibly the shittiest piece of code ever written...
With the only way to change ANYTHING = 20% quorum...
And nothing is even close to getting a quorum = indefinite paralysis.

Mention "wisdom of crowds" to any Wall Street or Las Vegas executive...
And you would get laughed you out of their office...
Because these 2 large industries exist solely due to the "stupidity of crowds".

So the DAO premise is bogus and the implementation is scammy...
What does this say about the Ethereum leaders?

Is a major ETH selloff inevitable as this clusterfuck plays out?

[mhbays]

Quick question, when can we actually vote with the DAOs?

[bones261]

Quick question, when can we actually vote with the DAOs?

You can vote right now with your DAO. Just know that when you vote, your DAO tokens are frozen until the voting commences. Yet, another way to lure bag holders into this additional form of paralysis. Maybe they should rename the DAO, Medusa tokens.

[Ethertrader1]

Everyone expects instant returns. This is an amazing project, but will take years to really come about. Relax people, or move on for now.

[bones261]

Everyone expects instant returns. This is an amazing project, but will take years to really come about. Relax people, or move on for now.

Thanks for your inspirational advise. I guess that you just had to create a whole new account so that you could bestow your awesome wisdom and be venerated by the masses. I am sure those that bought DAO for 1.5 ETH for 100 will be thrilled to wait years for them to start generating a few wei. Also, if those same investors want to "move on", I'm sure they will be absolutely ecstatic to suffer a 33%+ loss. Thanks for spreading your inspiration and hope.  

[iamnotback]

Thanks for sharing that epistle from CIYAM (community can be decentralized with DVCS open source):

Are "virtual corporations" really a great idea?

Could creating such autonomous entities actually make the world an even worse place?

It doesn't matter, because as I explained in the OP, a decentralized management structure by mass voting is a dysfunctional structure. It will simply blow up and fail to produce anything but redistribution of the money pool. I enumerated two reasons:

1. Organization is the antithesis of decentralization.

2. Money pools + voting = power vacuum

The DAO is nonsense except as a game around money pool power structure and politics. I am not even interested in discussing it further as it is a waste of time. Investors are doing that because they are deluded into thinking they can get rich want to lose their money. I think n00bs feel more comfortable with politics, than technology. They understand are familiar with politics. The DAO is taking technology that n00bs don't understand and packaging it in something the n00bs think is fair— democracy. Yet democracy is a power vacuum that always leads to totalitarianism. Since n00bs have never figured this out in 6000 years, then this can be reused to enslave them over and over again.

Vitalik, Tual, Larimars, etc.. seem to have wild fantasies that have no grounding in reality. I don't understand those dudes. Don't they know what they are building is crap. Or are they really deluded by their naive fantasies. Or maybe subconsciously the money is enough to motivate them, i.e. they are clever marketers, since it is obviously much easier to sell the fantasies to n00bs than to build mass adoption. Any way, I don't have time to worry or wonder about the way their thinking operates. And I don't want to go back into criticizing people. I will stand aside and observe them crash and burn. Unfortunately, those guys probably walk away with $millions and the n00bs lose. Boohoo that has been life for 6000 years.

I am just trying to ascertain if there are any valid use cases that I need to be aware of.


Edit: others are pointing out that investors better get the fuck out of the DAO and accept the -33% loss else they are going to end up losing everything:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1494333.msg15157775#msg15157775

Who ever invested in the DAO deserves the -33% instant loss to teach them a lesson. Those who hold on, will lose more.

I do expect the SEC will be coming after Tual et al, or who ever ends up capturing the power vacuum and keeping all the ETH wealth as it is extracted from the system by n00bs selling out as they realize it is fucked and by forcing "Yes" votes that pay to themselves. See the game theory I explained in my OP.

[CryR]

HODL DAO, someday all that hold will be happy

[stoat]

Thanks for sharing that epistle from CIYAM (community can be decentralized with DVCS open source):

Are "virtual corporations" really a great idea?

Could creating such autonomous entities actually make the world an even worse place?

It doesn't matter, because as I explained in the OP, a decentralized management structure by mass voting is a dysfunctional structure. It will simply blow up and fail to produce anything but redistribution of the money pool. I enumerated two reasons:

1. Organization is the antithesis of decentralization.

2. Money pools + voting = power vacuum

The DAO is nonsense except as a game around money pool power structure and politics. I am not even interested in discussing it further as it is a waste of time. Investors are doing that because they are deluded into thinking they can get rich want to lose their money. I think n00bs feel more comfortable with politics, than technology. They understand are familiar with politics. The DAO is taking technology that n00bs don't understand and packaging it in something the n00bs think is fair— democracy. Yet democracy is a power vacuum that always leads to totalitarianism. Since n00bs have never figured this out in 6000 years, then this can be reused to enslave them over and over again.

Vitalik, Tual, Larimars, etc.. seem to have wild fantasies that have no grounding in reality. I don't understand those dudes. Don't they know what they are building is crap. Or are they really deluded by their naive fantasies. Or maybe subconsciously the money is enough to motivate them, i.e. they are clever marketers, since it is obviously much easier to sell the fantasies to n00bs than to build mass adoption. Any way, I don't have time to worry or wonder about the way their thinking operates. And I don't want to go back into criticizing people. I will stand aside and observe them crash and burn. Unfortunately, those guys probably walk away with $millions and the n00bs lose. Boohoo that has been life for 6000 years.

I am just trying to ascertain if there are any valid use cases that I need to be aware of.


Edit: others are pointing out that investors better get the fuck out of the DAO and accept the -33% loss else they are going to end up losing everything:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1494333.msg15157775#msg15157775

Who ever invested in the DAO deserves the -33% instant loss to teach them a lesson. Those who hold on, will lose more.

I do expect the SEC will be coming after Tual et al, or who ever ends up capturing the power vacuum and keeping all the ETH wealth as it is extracted from the system by n00bs selling out as they realize it is fucked and by forcing "Yes" votes that pay to themselves. See the game theory I explained in my OP.

Quite viscious aren't you.

[axxo]

HODL DAO, someday all that hold will be happy

I sold 90% of my DAO recently, hope the remaining 10% will make me very fortunate someday.

[CryR]

HODL DAO, someday all that hold will be happy

I sold 90% of my DAO recently, hope the remaining 10% will make me very fortunate someday.

That's the idea

[andreafs]

The DAO is still an experiment. My guess is that it is still too risky to invest a large amount on it. I want ot invest but not sure if its a good idea a this moment... I think that we will still see lower values for its price.

What do you guys think?

I wish The DAO framework will be used in applications not merely economic, like transparent national elections or referendum.
This world needs more honest procedures.

Is there any company developing the poll/election system based on the Ethereum? That could be a good application.

I'm waiting some framework for DAO to help me build something that I can use in a small "test area".
Like for decisional process in small companies and so much more..
(Someone is trying here https://wings.ai)

[andreafs]

The DAO is still an experiment. My guess is that it is still too risky to invest a large amount on it. I want ot invest but not sure if its a good idea a this moment... I think that we will still see lower values for its price.

What do you guys think?

I wish The DAO framework will be used in applications not merely economic, like transparent national elections or referendum.
This world needs more honest procedures.

Not a chance.

I invested my money in thedao to make money not for some social agenda.

That's why I'm waiting for your splitting.
It's one of the problem of this project, people is not voting proposals.
Just buy, sell and repeat.

[Next BillG]

HODL DAO, someday all that hold will be happy

I sold 90% of my DAO recently, hope the remaining 10% will make me very fortunate someday.

May not be in the near future. The Ethereum and DAO price has dropped a lot recently. It might drop further.

[Bit_Happy]

You can usually tell the people who don't get ethereum by how utterly retarded and gay they sound

Ummm, You might want to reconsider your position?
Are we now all expected to "get ethereum", or were you actually intending to compliment "retarded and gay" people?
ps. My niece has "special needs", but will never be as 'retarded' as your hostile attitude.

[USB-S]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Rnz7TDQ2I

You guys think it's a good investment?

[Ab-Soul]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Rnz7TDQ2I

You guys think it's a good investment?

I lost almost 10 BTC. You decide if it's a good investment or not. Vitalik and slock.it robbed us.

[CryR]

"D.A.O. Technology, it's a Revolution." HAahhahahah ROFL

[Tacalt]

"D.A.O. Technology, it's a Revolution." HAahhahahah ROFL

It is a revolution. Before it, there was no such organisation. but it failed the experiment for the time being. It might come back.

[Next BillG]

"D.A.O. Technology, it's a Revolution." HAahhahahah ROFL

It is a revolution. Before it, there was no such organisation. but it failed the experiment for the time being. It might come back.

I wish the Ethereum developers can do the work more robustly. It is a multibillion project, too much money is at stake.