why bitcoins will ultimately die

[relay1]

the number of bitcoins is virtually limited to 21 millions, we've got less than 1 million users for now but imagine one day the price of the bitcoins becomes so high that a transaction fee will cost several bucks.
the minimum transaction fee is 0.0005 btc thats currently 0,2 cents per transaction...
that's nothing alright but this is only the beginning, due to its strict monetary policy, the bitcoin will kill itself when the transaction cost will be very high this will refrain a lot of people from doing transactions.

So let me get this right, you're arguing that Bitcoin will become so popular that nobody will use it?

lol

[gogxmagog]

I like where your going with this bitcoindownfall, but the IRS is the least of my worries when it comes to the future of BTC. I am sure that BTC is being watched by the powers that be and I am sure they already have a plan of action in place in case BTC even begins to infringe on their monopoly over commerce and trade. I'm talking the credit companies and PayPal. They own commerce on the internet, end of story. BTC entire economy is paltry in comparison. However, should BTC manage to attain a foothold, move anywhere close to being on the same level of use and conveinience as PP or mastercard, the big corporations, the money lenders, the banks, they will easily put together the $ to buy out 51% and effectively wipe out BTC like brushing a fly off the back of their wrist. For now BTC is too puny for them to bother with, plus nobody actually uses it to buy anything so they aint threatened, but mark my words, as soon as it starts to see wider adoption and use...BOOM, goldman sachs and BoA or whoever will shut it down quick and for good. Every genius out there who has caught BTC fever and moved his granny into a "home" so he could sell her house and convert it into BTC will see a life savings fortune turn to pennies (and I'm from Canada where pennies are no longer worth the junk metal they are printed on) and there will be mass suicides ala 1929. Warren Buffet and Bloomberg will wring their hands and gloat over every ruined BTC highroller, congratulating themselves for teaching us all a harsh lesson, and to never again dare and pretend at their throne.

In a dogfight, only the winners eat.

[JoelKatz]

Even if this scenario was realistic, what would happen is that as this gradually started to become a problem, two things would happen:

1) Some people would be driven away from Bitcoin because of the high transaction fees. This would reduce the demand for Bitcoins, lowering the price. Thus the problem could, at worst, slow the increase in adoption.

2) Every stakeholder would have an incentive to alleviate the problem. As history has shown, it is likely that a systemic threat to Bitcoin will be dealt with by the stakeholders working together to their mutual benefit. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=822.0

The system is a feedback loop. It doesn't do one thing, then do another thing, then stop.

[bitcoindownfall]

Looking at OP's nick, I suspect someone just created this account to troll us.

Miners mine because they receive an incentive to do so.

Currently, the 25 BTC block reward is the primary incentive.  The transaction fee will only become an issue when the block subsidy approaches zero.  This won't happen for several decades.  However, when it does, transaction fees will need to provide enough incentive for miners to continue mining.  By this time, it is assumed that Bitcoin will have grown to the point that there will be millions of transactions with small fees attached to them, and the sum of these fees will provide an incentive for miners to continue mining (e.g. one billion 1-cent transaction fees total $10 million in incentives for miners).

And, even if BTC becomes so valuable that .0005 BTC is worth a lot relative to fiat, the transaction fee can be reduced.  All that matters is that a balance is achieved wherein miners are happy with the incentives they are given for their work, and users are happy with the low transaction costs.  

uh oh I thought bitcoin was decentralized, so now we can lower the transaction fee, who's behind all that? who controls that?
The majority of the users control that.
something doesn't seem to be THAT transparent about bitcoins, how come some people liek MTGOX can transform real currencies to bitcoins and I can't do that myself? something's not right here
...I'm suspecting you're a 10 year old trolling us here.
I herd this story of the guy who was caught by the feds cos he was using bitcoins, he went to the smaller for that
I herd this story of the guy who was caught by the feds cos he was trolling too much

Transaction fees are voluntary on the part of the person making the bitcoin transaction, as the person attempting to make a transaction can include any fee or none at all in the transaction.

Exactly.  You actually never have to pay a transaction fee, and you will probably never be required to do so.  However, including a small fee such as .0005 BTC provides extra incentive for miners to include the transaction within a block.

WAIT WHAT? so I was paying for phantom "mandatory" transaction fees? how the hell do I NOT pay these transactions.
seriously there are like alreayd 11 million bitcoins in circulation, I don't want to pay a single penny for mining.
Use your brains and eyes, please. READ. Who told you you're paying for mining except your own hardware costs and electricity?

Pretty sure your posting is causing permanent brain damage. We are all dumber for having read it. I award you no bitcoin. May God have mercy on your soul.

try to be more imaginative, this will help you the day your bitcoin wallet gets erased

I'm not going to feed the trolls further on this.

dude you are the troll, I came here saying the transaction fee will ruin the bitcoin and it seems I was fooled because there's no transaction fee, how is this TROLLING?
and how do I remove this transaction fee, I AM NOT PAYING IT!

It's been some time since I paid the transaction fee for my transactions.
I am suspecting you used a ton of those 'free bitcoin sites' and got a ton of micro-bitcoins. You then tried to send that out, and of course you're expected to pay the transaction fee. Try to send a ton of micropayments with PayPal and you'll get the point. Miners are opting to not process spammy transactions without a fee, as that will clog the network. Please read the following if you're not trolling.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

I found out the program was putting the fee by default without my consent! once I deactivated this it removed the fees, is that even LEGAL?

I like where your going with this bitcoindownfall, but the IRS is the least of my worries when it comes to the future of BTC. I am sure that BTC is being watched by the powers that be and I am sure they already have a plan of action in place in case BTC even begins to infringe on their monopoly over commerce and trade. I'm talking the credit companies and PayPal. They own commerce on the internet, end of story. BTC entire economy is paltry in comparison. However, should BTC manage to attain a foothold, move anywhere close to being on the same level of use and conveinience as PP or mastercard, the big corporations, the money lenders, the banks, they will easily put together the $ to buy out 51% and effectively wipe out BTC like brushing a fly off the back of their wrist. For now BTC is too puny for them to bother with, plus nobody actually uses it to buy anything so they aint threatened, but mark my words, as soon as it starts to see wider adoption and use...BOOM, goldman sachs and BoA or whoever will shut it down quick and for good. Every genius out there who has caught BTC fever and moved his granny into a "home" so he could sell her house and convert it into BTC will see a life savings fortune turn to pennies (and I'm from Canada where pennies are no longer worth the junk metal they are printed on) and there will be mass suicides ala 1929. Warren Buffet and Bloomberg will wring their hands and gloat over every ruined BTC highroller, congratulating themselves for teaching us all a harsh lesson, and to never again dare and pretend at their throne.

In a dogfight, only the winners eat.

you got it right, I don't think it will happen NOW but in a matter of years it will, who knows WHO is behind all these bitcoin robberies? could be them!
are they people putting all their life savings on bitcoins really? this is insanity, the bitcoin will sooner or later die, just profit as much as you can until they shut down the whole system.
I think people call me a troll because they don't want to hear the sheer truth, they just don't want to believe that there are enemies out there who will use all their power to take down the bitcoin when it gets on their way.

do you guys know the feds made a report about bitcoins? WE ARE ALL BEING BUGGED

[psybits]

This is quite possibly the worst thread I've ever read on a possible theory for Bitcoin's collapse.

If the price goes up it to extremely high amounts it is very, very , very good for Bitcoin. (really...)

Transaction fees can be changed easily.

[Riomhaire]

I don't know much about bitcoin but I don't see why transaction fees couldn't be changed

[Keldel]

the minimum transaction fee is 0.0005 btc thats currently 0,2 cents per transaction...
that's nothing alright but this is only the beginning, due to its strict monetary policy, the bitcoin will kill itself when the transaction cost will be very high this will refrain a lot of people from doing transactions.

As I understand it, as bitcoin gains value, the miners will lower the fees.

[JoelKatz]

If the price goes up it to extremely high amounts it is very, very , very good for Bitcoin. (really...)

Why do you say so? High prices suggest high demand. High demand can evaporate easily, as we've seen several times. This adds currency risk that discourages the use of Bitcoins as a means of exchange. I think it's generally accepted that Bitcoin's long-term success is based on it gaining widespread acceptance as a means of exchange.

High prices indicate greater demand for Bitcoins but that could be either as a store of value, a means of exchange, or for speculation. So greater adoption (which is certainly good for Bitcoin) will lead to higher prices. But higher prices could just indicate more speculation which means more of a risk of a bubble collapsing, people finding it harder to price things in Bitcoins, more risk when holding Bitcoins, and so on.

Stable prices are good for adoptions. Rising prices are an indication of increasing adoption (good) but can also indicate rising speculation (usually bad, depending on whether it's justified by increasing adoption).

[dooglus]

I don't know much about bitcoin but I don't see why transaction fees couldn't be changed

They already have been:

Initially there was no protection against spammy transactions, so it was added.
Then in the summer 2 years ago when the price shot up around $30 for a short while the smallest non-zero fee was reduced from (I think) 0.01 to 0.0005 BTC.
In the latest bitcoin-qt client, the default fee is back up to 0.01 BTC.

[LordCadaver]

just profit as much as you can until they shut down the whole system.

Shutting down bitcoin is like shutting down the internet.

[fwho]

just profit as much as you can until they shut down the whole system.

Shutting down bitcoin is like shutting down the internet.

SOPA / PIPA / CISPA - funny you should say that.

[RodeoX]

Oh great, newbie #68255 here to explain why bitcoin is about to fail. 

[goto]

these lasts months the price of the bitcoin has sharply rised, some users are hoarding but it also rises because more and more people are getting to know bitcoins.
the number of bitcoins is virtually limited to 21 millions, we've got less than 1 million users for now but imagine one day the price of the bitcoins becomes so high that a transaction fee will cost several bucks.
the minimum transaction fee is 0.0005 btc thats currently 0,2 cents per transaction...
that's nothing alright but this is only the beginning, due to its strict monetary policy, the bitcoin will kill itself when the transaction cost will be very high this will refrain a lot of people from doing transactions.
ppl don't realize how dangerous this is, just imagine bitcoin enemies (goldman sachs for example) putting billions into the bitcoin system, this will cause the bitcoin to be worth several thousands dollars, it will kill the whole system
they know it and when bitcoin becomes too popular they will slay it that way
the best way to avoid this catastrophic disaster is to remove any kind of transaction fee, bitcoin mining is a waste of time, who the hell is trying to mine a nanobitcoin? seriously WTF
stop mining, this will cause you permanent brain damage from heat stroke (true)

BTCBTCBTC

And for this kind of comment is that n00bs are not really welcome anywhere else.

Reading should always precede trolling.

[JohnCoins]

The real concern with bitcoin is people like the OP who enjoy spreading lies.

[thecanadian]

I have to agree with the OP that outside forces ie banks and governments may not like the concept of bitcoins, even if it is a great system

[bitcoinbetas]

The real concern with bitcoin is people like the OP who enjoy spreading lies.

+1

[btcstarz]

Just got into bitcoin. My question is what would happen if there is a sudden surge in btc adoption? I understand that there is a finite number of coins in existence, is there any opportunity for the btc economy to expand? Or if the price per coin got so high (I cant believe we are trading at $40+ today), would there ever be a split-type scenario?

Thanks in advance

[LordGobbletooth]

Doubtful. The current crash was expected...nothing to do about it, but I'm confident that bitcoin will settle out eventually and be a force in the years to come.

[btcstarz]

Doubtful. The current crash was expected...nothing to do about it, but I'm confident that bitcoin will settle out eventually and be a force in the years to come.

agreed, I think a lot of whats going on with the volatility is prob due to reddit, wordpress, ASIC amongst other things. I hope this is our way out, to get our power back from the Fed.

[Foxpup]

Or if the price per coin got so high (I cant believe we are trading at $40+ today), would there ever be a split-type scenario?

Bitcoins are already divisible to eight decimal places. Unless the price rises above a million dollars per bitcoin while pennies are still in circulation, there will be no need to split them further.