Bitfloor: Any intent to release held coins?

[Entropy-uc]

Bitfloor is remarkably invisible on these forums.

It has been many months since his pitifully small return of coins to his victims.  I say his victims because the loss of coins was 100% Roman's fault, but it is the customers with coins on account who actually took the loss.

I challenge Roman to come here and define a schedule of releases for held coins, and to create a market for exchange of those coins.

[1715558875]

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[1715558875]

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[SgtSpike]

Funny, I was just thinking about this today as well... I still have 12 BTC hung up there.  :\

[Entropy-uc]

Roman has been online and replied to another thread in service discussion this week.

Roman  this is your final chance before I open a scammer thread in your and Bitfloors name.  I promise to keep it on the front page of the scammer page until you either resolved your debts or are tagged as a scammer.

1.  Post your plans to repay the coins you lost to your users including a schedule.

2.  Where is the evidence there actually was a theft.  Please post all the police reports, a post mortem of how the theft occurred including transaction events on the blockchain, and any security consultants reports on the event and efforts to mitigate the weaknesses at Bitfloor. (redacted as necessary)

[MPOE-PR]

Roman has been online and replied to another thread in service discussion this week.

Roman  this is your final chance before I open a scammer thread in your and Bitfloors name.  I promise to keep it on the front page of the scammer page until you either resolved your debts or are tagged as a scammer.

1.  Post your plans to repay the coins you lost to your users including a schedule.

2.  Where is the evidence there actually was a theft.  Please post all the police reports, a post mortem of how the theft occurred including transaction events on the blockchain, and any security consultants reports on the event and efforts to mitigate the weaknesses at Bitfloor. (redacted as necessary)

Specifically, what'd you have him do? He lost the dough. He told you he lost the dough. He then came up with some proposal whereby you all support him so he can trade while insolvent. Everybody went for it, no clue why, but in classical Bitcoin Idiocy style that thread was replete with "confidence" and "support" and self pats on the back. The devs fucked up oh how great that they "fixed it", shtylman lost the coin oh how great that he "fixed it", same exact thing.

What was the plan exactly? Did someone actually imagine that if denial is kept up for a week or a month or however long some Bitcoins are going to magically materialize? Seriously?

That's not how it works.

[mufa23]

Was just talking to a family member the other day about this. I've been trying to get him into bitcoin for awhile now. He was asking about exchanges to use, and the issue of Bitfloor came up. I personally only had $20 USD held up until he unlocked the website. Was suggesting to him that no matter what exchange to use, it's better to be safe and to either buy/sell as soon as the funds hit the exchange so there is less of a chance that it gets stolen. Kind of a dumb from a market/business perspective since you can't snatch up the bulls and bears as it comes. But at least you aren't sitting around waiting for your tied up money that could be indefinitely. I sent $300 worth two days ago, and quickly converted it and withdrew it to my bank. Didn't trust it to leave it at the exchange and wait to it to go up another dollar or so. Kinda sucks that you have to play hot potato to be safe when it comes to exchanges.

I don't think shtylman will be replying to this thread. I thought I remember awhile back he said he'd stop using bitcointalk to communicate with people. He setup a G+ account, and I think a Twitter as well for Bitfloor. I'm not certain how often either are used, so reaching him by email may be your only safe bet.

[Entropy-uc]

I am largely in accordance with MPOE-PR on this.

He has used the promise of repayment to continue operating his business.  He has no intent or ability to actually repay.

That makes him a scammer, and if he does not make a valid response, I am going to make it a hobby to keep him and his company on the front page of the scammer thread.

I actually find the idea of keeping pooled 'deposits' of bitcoin anywhere ridiculous.  If the coins don't stay in your deposit address, so you can see them on the blockchain, how can you know they aren't using your coins as working capital?  If a company say, generated huge business losses, why wouldn't they report being 'hacked' and let their customers eat it.

I won't leave my coins under the control of anyone that doesn't have a verifiable means of proving to me they are not running on a fractional reserve basis for more than the time it takes to make a transaction ever again.

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
I actually find the idea of keeping pooled 'deposits' of bitcoin anywhere ridiculous.  If the coins don't stay in your deposit address, so you can see them on the blockchain, how can you know they aren't using your coins as working capital?  If a company say, generated huge business losses, why wouldn't they report being 'hacked' and let their customers eat it.

I won't leave my coins under the control of anyone that doesn't have a verifiable means of proving to me they are not running on a fractional reserve basis for more than the time it takes to make a transaction ever again.

Are there any bitcoin currency exchanges that don't keep pooled 'deposits' of bitcoin?  If so, which one?  I'd don't like 'pooled' deposits, but if I'm going to use an exchange, it seems I can't avoid it.

[crazy_rabbit]

Roman has been online and replied to another thread in service discussion this week.

Roman  this is your final chance before I open a scammer thread in your and Bitfloors name.  I promise to keep it on the front page of the scammer page until you either resolved your debts or are tagged as a scammer.

1.  Post your plans to repay the coins you lost to your users including a schedule.

2.  Where is the evidence there actually was a theft.  Please post all the police reports, a post mortem of how the theft occurred including transaction events on the blockchain, and any security consultants reports on the event and efforts to mitigate the weaknesses at Bitfloor. (redacted as necessary)

Specifically, what'd you have him do? He lost the dough. He told you he lost the dough. He then came up with some proposal whereby you all support him so he can trade while insolvent. Everybody went for it, no clue why, but in classical Bitcoin Idiocy style that thread was replete with "confidence" and "support" and self pats on the back. The devs fucked up oh how great that they "fixed it", shtylman lost the coin oh how great that he "fixed it", same exact thing.

What was the plan exactly? Did someone actually imagine that if denial is kept up for a week or a month or however long some Bitcoins are going to magically materialize? Seriously?

That's not how it works.

At least he did come up witha plan to repay the loss. And if I remember correctly he pointed out how much the exchange made at the time, which was a small amount, but what else could he do really? Disclaimer: I trade with them.

[Entropy-uc]

At least he did come up witha plan to repay the loss. And if I remember correctly he pointed out how much the exchange made at the time, which was a small amount, but what else could he do really? Disclaimer: I trade with them.

What is his plan?

Payout less than 2% whenever he feels like it?  I'm not too good at math, but I'm pretty sure I'll be dead before he repays at this rate.

So where is the police report?
Where is the schedule for payments?
Have any customers been given preferential treatment on repayments?
Why can't held coins at least trade on bitfloor?  Isn't he running an exchange?
Why can't he offer incentives for holders of his debt to trade on his site?

I'd love to trade at Bitfloor again.  It was a lovely site and very efficiently run.  But I woke up one morning to find out that Roman had decided to make everyone carrying BTC on his site give him an interest free $250000 $1.2M loan.

He was partying in London at the time, and didn't even bother to come back early

I don't do business with people who unilaterally seize my money.  You shouldn't either.

[MPOE-PR]

Payout less than 2% whenever he feels like it?  I'm not too good at math, but I'm pretty sure I'll be dead before he repays at this rate.

Seeing how the MPBOR has been dancing between 5 and 10% a month since about forever it's quite clear you're never getting repaid in any meaningful sense of that word. You're just getting diluted into insignificance, which is kinda the plan with these "will pay you when I get to it" schemes.

Kludge, Hashking, whoever else all do the exact same thing. It's the one way that forum scammers have discovered to both avoid any serious service for their debts and avoid getting the tag: an unbacked pledge of good will and nice intentions.

Inasmuch as it works to redistribute BTC from the people with good intentions to the people with functioning brains it'd seem a net positive for BTC in general anyway.

Have any customers been given preferential treatment on repayments?

Seeing how things are commonly handled (take amazingrando as a fine example) even to the point that it's expected (see the Bitcoinica early drama), probably. How'd you know for sure either way?

Why can't held coins at least trade on bitfloor?  Isn't he running an exchange?

Because that'd compound the problem (in effect creating a fractional reserve exchange, and a very very fractional one at that - they lost more than what they trade in months).

Why can't he offer incentives for holders of his debt to trade on his site?

Because he's bankrupt. And because he compounded his idiocy early on with the financial stupidity of not paying out right then and there, which has in effect turned his debt from ~300k usd to way over 1mn by now. People don't usually realize the importance of financial management, however here it is loud and clear: the loss from bad coding practices? 300k. The loss from poor financial management ? 700k+. More than twice. Same goes for Asicminer and in general there's tons of examples around.

He was partying in London at the time, and didn't even bother to come back early

I don't do business with people who unilaterally seize my money.  You shouldn't either.

There is this subset of idiots who go by feelers rather than facts. Blissfully they are decreasing in total BTC holdings even if increasing in numbers. They are the people who don't matter, basically. In due time their stubborn idiocy will have worked them into the exact corners they inhabit irl, and then we'll hear all about how the conspiracy of the rich is keeping them down. History repeats.

[Entropy-uc]

SAID: Too many wise things to quote.

Again I agree.

He is bankrupt.  He should have the decency to recognize that fact and dissolve his company.  Those of us bagholders will see nothing but he will be proof that failure isn't rewarded in Bitcoin.

The current situation is that people here are foolish enough to allow him to continue operations even though his company is insolvent to the tune of 50x revenues.

I do disagree about 1 thing.  Allowing held coins to trade would be a good thing.  It would allow me to sell my share of Roman's debt to someone who wants to be a bagholder.  Everyone would win.  Roman would see the last of me, the new bagholder would imagine he just got a great deal on some bitcoin, and I would make a further recovery.  

[darkmule]

I am largely in accordance with MPOE-PR on this.

He has used the promise of repayment to continue operating his business.  He has no intent or ability to actually repay.

That makes him a scammer, and if he does not make a valid response, I am going to make it a hobby to keep him and his company on the front page of the scammer thread.

That's as much as you'll be able to do, because the real scammers are the ones in charge of the bogus "scammer" tag, which is a sick joke.

[Entropy-uc]

I am largely in accordance with MPOE-PR on this.

He has used the promise of repayment to continue operating his business.  He has no intent or ability to actually repay.

That makes him a scammer, and if he does not make a valid response, I am going to make it a hobby to keep him and his company on the front page of the scammer thread.

That's as much as you'll be able to do, because the real scammers are the ones in charge of the bogus "scammer" tag, which is a sick joke.

A different problem entirely.

Somewhat before Trendon walked away from his Ponzi, Gavin commented that perhaps many parts of this board should be split off into another site so that there could be a 'good bitcointalk' that focused on developing and growing Bitcoin, and a 'bad bitcointalk' where the free market could reign.

A that time I thought it was a good idea, but wondered why Gavin didn't realize that this is, by choice, the bad bitcointalk already.

[MPOE-PR]

SAID: Too many wise things to quote.

Again I agree.

He is bankrupt.  He should have the decency to recognize that fact and dissolve his company.  Those of us bagholders will see nothing but he will be proof that failure isn't rewarded in Bitcoin.

The current situation is that people here are foolish enough to allow him to continue operations even though his company is insolvent to the tune of 50x revenues.

I do disagree about 1 thing.  Allowing held coins to trade would be a good thing.  It would allow me to sell my share of Roman's debt to someone who wants to be a bagholder.  Everyone would win.  Roman would see the last of me, the new bagholder would imagine he just got a great deal on some bitcoin, and I would make a further recovery.  

That was the solution we proposed right then. Never heard back. Ask the idiot why exactly.

[darkmule]

What I find rather comical about nonsense like this is the very people making excuses for this clown and enabling him to keep operating after basically stealing his customers' money are the very same people who scream bloody murder when someone does the same with fiat currency, like the government of Cyprus.

Basically, this guy screwed up and lost a bunch of other people's money, then stole it to stay afloat.  That's really the best spin on it.  That's assuming the story of the heist is even true, even though there's about zero evidence there was even a heist in the first place. And frankly, even that is about as believable as that O.J. Simpson was really looking for the "real killer" on the golf courses of Florida.