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Author Topic: The DAO FAIL  (Read 20436 times)
spartak_t (OP)
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June 09, 2016, 10:11:04 AM
 #1

This one is a $174Mn FAIL!



"One of the greater experiments of the decade finds itself in limbo as the DAO token holders weigh solutions to a number of attack vectors exposed by Emin Gün Sirer, Vlad Zamfir and others.

Attacks against the DAO

“There are so many attacks against the DAO that some of them cancel each other out,” said Sirer in a recent interview. Such as the stalker attack which may allow an attacker to steal your money when you try to withdraw DAO tokens through a split function.”

“It’s a race condition,” says Sirer, comparing it to Microsoft’s blue screen of death, “it’s just not good system design.”

“Building a solution to this is very, very easy,” says Zamfir. “Having a withdraw function would be a very elegant fix.” Other attack vectors may take months, but “unlikely to take more than a year” according to Sirer.

Moratorium to freeze the DAO’s activities

The DAO functions through token holders voting for proposals with a minimum quorum of 20%, but there is a bias towards voting yes, say researchers, as a ‘no’ vote may aid in reaching the quorum.

Out of 59 proposals the most popular is a moratorium to freeze the DAO’s activities until solutions are implemented. With only three days to go it has 7.24% of the quorum, despite receiving wide publicity. Most have voted in favour by a wide margin, but there are proposals where the ‘no’ vote has far more support, such as almost 85% voting against a proposal for curators to hire contractors to fix the DAO for 5,000 Ether. Few seem to suggest that a ‘yes’ bias does not exist with other more direct flaws such as the inability to withdraw funds after voting even if you are against the proposal.

“There are techniques from game theory for how to solve [the attack vectors], but evolving from where we are now to all of those is not a two-week patch – there is some thought to be given,” says Sirer in an Epicenter Bitcoin interview.

Key solutions and Slock.it

One method may be to upgrade the code, but that would require a 53% quorum which may not be reached. Another solution suggested by Alex van de Sande, one of the DAO curators, is creating a set of guidelines and a smart contract template for business proposals to address the attack vectors as a temporary solution until the DAO is upgraded.   

The proposals guideline suggestion is supported by Slock.it, the creator of the DAO, and therefore may find wide agreement, but ironing out the details may prove a tricky task and may take some time. Token holders are, however, growing impatient. On the DAO slack channel there are numerous complaints about what some perceive as a limbo, with Griff Green, a spokesman for Slock.it, stating that they were waiting for the curators.

The future of DAO depends on the community’s response

The uncertainty is reflected on DAO’s price which stands below parity at around 0.9 ether per 100 tokens even though some bought at 1.5 ether during the ‘creation’ period. However, a shaky start is to be expected as the DAO’s wild success in raising 12 million ether took everyone by surprise, bringing in far more scrutiny and careful analysis of its many aspects.

The current difficulties, therefore, may just be the start, but the real test lies in the community’s response. Specifically, whether they will stand up to the challenges, or turn against each other as they vie for the money."

Source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/fixing-dao-will-take-months-communitys-response-is-crucial

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June 09, 2016, 10:22:47 AM
 #2

This is a good opportunity for other devs to create their own DAO. Maybe Lisk devs should start creating one. This is a massive opportunity to get a better one out in the market. 

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June 09, 2016, 11:16:33 AM
 #3

This is a good opportunity for other devs to create their own DAO. Maybe Lisk devs should start creating one. This is a massive opportunity to get a better one out in the market. 
The LISK goons can't even run a website or create a functioning wallet. But yeah why don't these clowns copy others great ideas.

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June 09, 2016, 12:10:36 PM
 #4

This is a good opportunity for other devs to create their own DAO. Maybe Lisk devs should start creating one. This is a massive opportunity to get a better one out in the market.  
The LISK goons can't even run a website or create a functioning wallet. But yeah why don't these clowns copy others great ideas.

You mean copy a web site and fork the code from a wallet ?
Yeah those are some real impressive ETHEREUM accomplishments.
Is there a DAPP for that ?

So when does ETH take over for Bitcoin (like you been saying all along with 20 accounts)
I am still waiting..

I would expect the price of ETH to surpass Bitcoins compared to the US dollar.
How are those grandiose predictions of your coming along kid ?

Oh and if you want to sound smart you should not mix up the concepts of web design and coding.
Contrary to MCXnow they are are separate issues entirely.

Still not sure why you think anyone should listen to a loud mouth anonymous NOOB account
who has done nothing in this very short time since the pump & dump you showed up for.
Can i ask why you showed up with a bunch of other dummy fake accounts you control during
the recent big hype spam Bitcointalk Ethereum campaign ?
How much did they pay you minecache (or should i use one of your other names?)

Stay in your Big top clown.. this ain't a circus & no one wants your ICO scam coin !
And please DO STFU with the moronic predictions for your grand ICO pyramid scam block chain token thingy.
Everyone already bought and dumped for their uber elite profits and don't give two shits about it anymore.
Hell.. even V. Butterin himself admitted he dump on you all  Cheesy

Someone open a window it reeks like desperate bag hold NOOB ACCOUNT scam "token" pusher in here !

EDIT:
@OP
Good info ..thanks for posting it Wink

FUD first & ask questions later™
BillyBobZorton
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June 09, 2016, 02:47:23 PM
 #5

The problem with investing in something like DAO is the risk reward may be big in short them, but stuff like this is prone to flash crash. They still have to fix some fundamental issues with ETH before considering this DAO thing imo.
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June 09, 2016, 02:59:39 PM
 #6

UHUH , DAO and ETH still every faecescoin's wetdream while rising slowly , HF
spartak_t (OP)
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June 09, 2016, 03:01:04 PM
Last edit: June 10, 2016, 01:28:26 PM by spartak_t
 #7

.. but stuff like this is prone to flash crash...

Of course. Technology is becoming more and more sophisticated. I'm kinda against that, because majority of the people are not "geeks". This could be a big problem for Bitcoin (and others), since it is cryptocurrencies against fiat money "thing" (i.e. people vs. banks). Making things more hard to understand will eventually interfere the adoption of the cryptocurrencies (at least in the way we see it now, because in the future, the banks can use the technology for themselves and the ordinary guy will be screwed... again). Maybe current technologies may find its use in 5-10-20 years (who knows...), but not now...  

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June 09, 2016, 03:04:59 PM
 #8

1 fail, 2 fail, much fail  Cheesy
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June 09, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
 #9

this whole ethocreampie ecosystem included the daos are useless and worthless craps, without the whales to manipulates the fake volume it's already dead long ago. whales are now moving to legitimate platform like LISK

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June 09, 2016, 04:19:50 PM
 #10

this whole ethocreampie ecosystem included the daos are useless and worthless craps, without the whales to manipulates the fake volume it's already dead long ago. whales are now moving to legitimate platform like LISK

And how exactly LISK proved to be legitimate?

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June 09, 2016, 04:22:04 PM
 #11

I just read a good article on coindesk regarding this. Personally I did not invest any eth into dao.
I may later on if it proves to be legit.

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spartak_t (OP)
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June 09, 2016, 04:26:38 PM
 #12

I just read a good article on coindesk regarding this. Personally I did not invest any eth into dao.
I may later on if it proves to be legit.

The question is not if its legit or not. The question is that they raised $174Mn, yet allowed this to happen. Its like inventing a tank for $174Mn, but then it turns out that you can stop it with knife...

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June 09, 2016, 05:05:29 PM
 #13

I mean it is too early to say. But from the economical site the ICO was not a hit yet. And I doubt it will get better in the next weeks.
The main problem is that there are less projects DAO could invest in. Sock.it is the only one that is mentionable but besides this there isn't nothing yet.

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June 09, 2016, 05:45:29 PM
 #14

So the new normal is write 2080 lines of code (less code than I write in a week) and raise $168 million or don't write any code and use someone else's code and raise $15 million:

Just stay away if you're not invested or slowly sell them without upsetting the price if you're holding them. You are missing the opportunity to invest in other more profitable prospects. Looking at github they have been working on these projects but without any solid results yet. So it might better to wait until they have something to show for and check of their assets are worth to invest in.

Such as Waves which apparently raised $15 million for vaporware and selling a crowdsale pitching IOHK's open source code (and which jl777 was said to be advisor):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1504381.msg15138357#msg15138357

And Lisk which raised $10 million apparently still has problems in the functioning of the wallet:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1504381.msg15139560#msg15139560

Or The DAO which raised $168 million with only 2080 lines of sol code:

https://github.com/slockit/DAO

Seems these days it is better to be good at marketing and selling ideas than actual code that is stable and ready for the launch.
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June 09, 2016, 05:46:20 PM
 #15

What kind of project are they allowed to invest in. Is there some sort of criteria?
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June 09, 2016, 11:08:48 PM
 #16

This is a good opportunity for other devs to create their own DAO. Maybe Lisk devs should start creating one. This is a massive opportunity to get a better one out in the market.  
The LISK goons can't even run a website or create a functioning wallet. But yeah why don't these clowns copy others great ideas.

You mean copy a web site and fork the code from a wallet ?
Yeah those are some real impressive ETHEREUM accomplishments.
Is there a DAPP for that ?

So when does ETH take over for Bitcoin (like you been saying all along with 20 accounts)
I am still waiting..

I would expect the price of ETH to surpass Bitcoins compared to the US dollar.
How are those grandiose predictions of your coming along kid ?

Oh and if you want to sound smart you should not mix up the concepts of web design and coding.
Contrary to MCXnow they are are separate issues entirely.

Still not sure why you think anyone should listen to a loud mouth anonymous NOOB account
who has done nothing in this very short time since the pump & dump you showed up for.
Can i ask why you showed up with a bunch of other dummy fake accounts you control during
the recent big hype spam Bitcointalk Ethereum campaign ?
How much did they pay you minecache (or should i use one of your other names?)

Stay in your Big top clown.. this ain't a circus & no one wants your ICO scam coin !
And please DO STFU with the moronic predictions for your grand ICO pyramid scam block chain token thingy.
Everyone already bought and dumped for their uber elite profits and don't give two shits about it anymore.
Hell.. even V. Butterin himself admitted he dump on you all  Cheesy

Someone open a window it reeks like desperate bag hold NOOB ACCOUNT scam "token" pusher in here !

EDIT:
@OP
Good info ..thanks for posting it Wink
Now others and I know 100% that you are full of nothing but FUD because I only have, and need, 1 account here as any admin can verify through IP address. You really are a prize goon. What's wrong, can't afford any new clown shoes?

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June 10, 2016, 02:43:55 AM
 #17

Better sell your shitcoins to buy ETH.

ETH made all your shitcoins obsolete, thats why the scammers and shit devs on this forum MAD AS HELL about ethereum

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Spoetnik
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June 10, 2016, 03:34:23 AM
 #18

Better sell your shitcoins to buy ETH.

ETH made all your shitcoins obsolete, thats why the scammers and shit devs on this forum MAD AS HELL about ethereum

Did you post on the wrong topic smart guy ?

And your statement is obviously bloody stupid..

minecache, you are a liar.

kind of like when you lied and said IBM & Microsoft are using ETH.

FUD first & ask questions later™
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June 10, 2016, 06:32:47 AM
 #19

Better sell your shitcoins to buy ETH.

ETH made all your shitcoins obsolete, thats why the scammers and shit devs on this forum MAD AS HELL about ethereum

Maybe I should have launched a moderated topic. Are you 12? We currently have a $174Mn problem, which can cause huge negative impact on the future of cryptocurrencies and such statements are unnecessary!

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June 10, 2016, 09:37:24 AM
 #20

I get what you posted and why to some extent tech wise anyway LOL
You can see many of these assholes around here are not interested in talking Crypto.
They really do just come here to spam and play cheerleader and cry FUD for bucks.

@OP
Your comment you told that guy.. it doesn't matter if it's scam or not was correct.
But good luck trying to have an intelligent UNBIASED conversation around here about it.

The plague that has persisted around here since day one is NEVER admit fault.
The name of the game is deny deny deny ..then Cry Troll & FUD.
Meanwhile the security is compromised and the bad guys are exploiting
and the nubs are left in the dark about the issue having to go deaf listening to FUD babies crying.

FUD first & ask questions later™
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