Wal-Mart stops accepting Visa cards in Canada

[countryfree]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/wal-mart-says-it-will-stop-accepting-visa-cards-in-canadian-stores-1465592845

This is the most surprising news I've read in a long time. I had always thought that with so many people hooked on cards in America, retailers had no choice but to accept them whatever the conditions, but I'm pleased to be wrong.

OK, this isn't BTC related, but it shows that if a payment system isn't satisfactory, companies are open to the idea of dumping it. So they may as well be open to new payment systems. Let's see, could there be another payment system, cheaper than Visa, and that people could use at Wal-Mart?

[Carlton Banks]

What's the specific problem with VISA in Canada? WalMart operates all over the world, and so Canada must be singled out for a reason. Does the article mention this ? (prefer not to drive any traffic to Wall Street Journal if I can help it)

[aso118]

What's the specific problem with VISA in Canada? WalMart operates all over the world, and so Canada must be singled out for a reason. Does the article mention this ? (prefer not to drive any traffic to Wall Street Journal if I can help it)

It is likely to be extended to all sites.
While the fees charged by Mastercard and Visa to most customers are similar, Mastercard offers discounts to large retailers.

[var53]

What's the specific problem with VISA in Canada? WalMart operates all over the world, and so Canada must be singled out for a reason. Does the article mention this ? (prefer not to drive any traffic to Wall Street Journal if I can help it)

It is likely to be extended to all sites.
While the fees charged by Mastercard and Visa to most customers are similar, Mastercard offers discounts to large retailers.

It's the fees that  Walmart Canada said are too high, but it also said it remained "optimistic that we will reach an agreement with Visa". There's only one store that will stop accepting Visa on 18 July, then a slow roll out of that policy to other stores across Canada.

[franky1]

Visa was charging unacceptably high fee's before, so much so that it nearby became a point that the canadian government needed to intervene.
visa agreed to lower its rates to 1.5% average across canada, obviously high fees for smaller retailers
(this is old news. related but separate from the more recent walmart decision)


but large companies have the power to negotiate extra discounts on fee's. sometimes as low as 0.5%.
but it seems walmart is not happy with the offer it is getting with Visa

which kind of goes to show. if a monolith of a business such as walmart can stop using visa for an unacceptable deal of (somewhere between 0.5%-1.5%) then bitcoin payment services such as bitpay and coinbase need to cut their fee's below 1% to atleast have any chance of these monolith companies accepting bitcoin.

for instance walmart love fiat. but even so they are willing to stop accepting a method of accepting fiat due to the fee's, even when those fee's are lower then most other retailers anyway...

so even if they started to love bitcoin. the merchant fees(using payment processors) or the exchange rate fees(independently swapping) need to be low or nothing

[Carlton Banks]

oh lol at corporate fascistas in hair pulling girl-fight. Peak civilization has left the big fish with no lunch money left to extort, so now they're turning on each other

[mindrust]

I always liked MasterCard over VISA anyways. I never heard any problems about MasterCard but always hearing full of shit with VISA and some of them i experienced myself.

VISA is not accepted worldwide, that's a lie. They have many problems.

[franky1]

Wal-Mart Canada is estimated to generate about $23-billion in annual sales.

with Visa cards equating to 40% of those sales($9.2B) then the easy maths is that visa gets:
$138M @ 1.5%
$92M @ 1%
$46M @ 0.5%

so canada have alot of power to say "we dont want to give you $138M, we want to give you $46M, if you dont like it, youll get nothing, zero, ziltch"
and then put a deadline of a month for visa to change their mind before walmart starts reducing visa's income, one store at a time.

i think Visa will give in. after all who can say no to atleast $46M.
and this is what coinbase and bitpay should be doing too.. not having a fixed 1% fee, but realise that anything is better then nothing, especially when low percentages with large retailers can amount to ALOT of income.. compared to higher percentages for small retailers

[Carlton Banks]

bitcoin payment services such as bitpay and coinbase need to cut their fee's below 1%

and this is what coinbase and bitpay should be doing too..

I thought you were strongly against centralised Bitcoin payment services, and yet you insist on repeating-repeating-repeating the BrandName^TM centralised services you approve of? Or is it only the ones you can understand? Once again, Franky is full of shit (and dry/boring beyond belief)

[FLoving]

I am wonder that why they stopped it for the citizens of Canada, as it is allowed for all over the world and visa is working the same for all over the world, and if they have some doubt about the Canadians m, then everyone know that Canadians are more legit in their businesses.

[franky1]

bitcoin payment services such as bitpay and coinbase need to cut their fee's below 1%

and this is what coinbase and bitpay should be doing too..

I thought you were strongly against centralised Bitcoin payment services, and yet you insist on repeating-repeating-repeating the BrandName^TM centralised services you approve of? Or is it only the ones you can understand? Once again, Franky is full of shit (and dry/boring beyond belief)

lemming you do realise that corporations have to do things legit, and have payment records. so ofcourse monolith retailers are going to use other corporate payment processors. even overstock which the CEO is highly involved personally with bitcoin. is not doing exchanges to fiat privately. but instead using coinbase.
not due to any belief that coinbase or bitpay are actually value for money or any good.. but because of the legality of the payment records. i would have atleast thought you would have done some research into the "legality"/"illegality" of doing private trades vs trades with registered businesses, especially with your rant on BurtWs scenario.
imagine the headache a corporation would put on anyone trying to do localbitcoin trades with overstock.. or the headache overstock would get for explaining where who how and why all of these payments were done with individuals
think outside the box.. please

[Carlton Banks]

The same rule-abiding corporations who structure their tax affairs to avoid any tax burden at all? Shut up Franky, do everyone a favour, yourself especially

[franky1]

The same rule-twisting corporations who structure their tax affairs to avoid any tax burden at all? Shut up Franky, do everyone a favour, yourself especially

exactly, doing trades on localbitcoins or OTC could leave a corporation having to declare each transaction as private contracts with individuals, which is were it can be wrongly declared as income to the recipient(without complex explanations) and then corporations need to pay the state and federal income tax on every localbitcoin trade.

so yes corporations will avoid headaches/explaining payments. and instead use another corporation that is registered so its not considered as income/profits to avoid taxes.. aswell as avoiding headaches

my personal belief is that bitcoin should be open to anyone. if people want to do X they can if people want to do Y they can. but when you want to have FIAT retailers in the bitcoin ecosystem then there are fiat rules that need to be considered when traversing the borders between bitcoin and fiat.

im not saying everyone needs to use coinbase. personally i think people should avoid coinbase, but due to the fiat world corporations need things like coinbase/bitpay, etc.

if you really think that overstock, walmart, starbucks will do OTC trades or localbitcoin trades to stay "decentralized" then you have no clue, maybe its best you go play with your monero with you best friends icebreaker and maxwell

[rizzlarolla]

Shut up Franky, do everyone a favour, yourself especially

Don't include me in your assumption.
For me, Franky's frank writing beats your rhetoric hands down.

[Carlton Banks]

Franky is part of a campaign to distort the facts about Bitcoin so that companies backed by major banking corporations (like his beloved Coinbase and Bitpay) can transform Bitcoin into something they can take complete control of. Believe his bullshit at your peril

[rizzlarolla]

Franky tends to state what he believe's and why, backed with some figures/evidence.
He is not always correct. Who is?
Sometimes my opinion may differ from Franky.

But I can make my own mind on what is presented.
(as franky says, do your own dd)
What do you ever bring?

[franky1]

Franky is part of a campaign to distort the facts about Bitcoin so that companies backed by major banking corporations (like his beloved Coinbase and Bitpay) can transform Bitcoin into something they can take complete control of. Believe his bullshit at your peril

carlton is part of the monero/sidechain campaign to distort facts about bitcoin so that campanies backed by major banking corporations (like his beloved blockstream) can transform bitcoin into something they can take complete control of.

by the way although i personally hate coinbase, corporations like coinbase are just a fringe industry at the borders of bitcoin.. however blockstream are at the heart of bitcoin and can do more damage.
eg blockstream:"we are removing malleability".... blockstream:"but we are adding RBF"
eg blockstream:"we dont want big blocks"... blockstream:"so come over to our sidechains or LN where you are not personally transacting on blocks directly"
eg blockstream:"we dont want corporate control from banks"... blockstream:"we have just signed a $55mill deal with PwC who are affiliated and paid by banks"

i know you want monero to be one of the sidechains as thats the only reason i can think of that you are defending blockstream. hoping your pennies turn into dollars when your altcoin becomes useful to corporations

.. hypocrit

[thejaytiesto]

I can't believe this frank guy is a Legendary user of the forum and has thousands of posts and has been here for years, and he still fails to understand how the Lightning protocol works (a protocol that's open source and several private companies are working on it which is always good news) and has no notions in how scaling a system like Bitcoin works. Is this guy for real or just trolling at this point?

[Carlton Banks]

Franky is part of a campaign to distort the facts about Bitcoin so that companies backed by major banking corporations (like his beloved Coinbase and Bitpay) can transform Bitcoin into something they can take complete control of. Believe his bullshit at your peril

carlton is part of the monero/sidechain campaign to distort facts about bitcoin so that campanies backed by major banking corporations (like his beloved blockstream) can transform bitcoin into something they can take complete control of.

One problem: the people you have such a big issue with (Greg Maxwell, Pieter Wuille, Peter Todd etc) HAVE BEEN AS MUCH IN CONTROL AS ONE CAN BE OF BITCOIN FOR MANY YEARS ALREADY. Your argument is idiotic.


Franky, you're a poorly disguised member of the XT/Classic takeover attempt, as evidenced by your attempts at "subtle" undermining of the proven Core team and carefully chosen bolstering of anything that supports the takeover. And the contradictions are sssssssssso obvious, name-dropping Coinbase multiple times while claiming to "hate Coinbase". Your propaganda is so blatant, I expect your wages are frequently docked for being so unconvincing.

[alyssa85]

Visa was charging unacceptably high fee's before, so much so that it nearby became a point that the canadian government needed to intervene.
visa agreed to lower its rates to 1.5% average across canada, obviously high fees for smaller retailers
(this is old news. related but separate from the more recent walmart decision)


but large companies have the power to negotiate extra discounts on fee's. sometimes as low as 0.5%.
but it seems walmart is not happy with the offer it is getting with Visa

which kind of goes to show. if a monolith of a business such as walmart can stop using visa for an unacceptable deal of (somewhere between 0.5%-1.5%) then bitcoin payment services such as bitpay and coinbase need to cut their fee's below 1% to atleast have any chance of these monolith companies accepting bitcoin.

for instance walmart love fiat. but even so they are willing to stop accepting a method of accepting fiat due to the fee's, even when those fee's are lower then most other retailers anyway...

so even if they started to love bitcoin. the merchant fees(using payment processors) or the exchange rate fees(independently swapping) need to be low or nothing

This, this, this.

You can only charge high fees if you monopolize payment systems and the merchant has no alternative. If alternatives exist, business simply migrates to whoever charges lower fees.