lets make some rational comments about real life
Ok. Let's.
1. imagine you went to walmart to buy any product, whether its baked beans or a large TV. on monday they say there is a 4cent fee, tuesday its a 7 cent fee, wednesday is a 9cent fee.. ignoring the actual price.. just the variation of the fee alone is not helpful to average people. EG X:"whats the fee tomorrow" y:"dont know".. is a conversation that is not positive in anyway, shape or form... unless you ride unicorns
Imagine you went to a gasoline station to buy some gasoline for your car. On Monday the pumps at business A indicate that the cost of the fuel is $2.55 per gallon, and across the street at business B it is $2.59. Tuesday it's $2.75 at business A and $2.73 at B. Wednesday it's $2.60 at A and $2.63 at B. This constant changing of the price is not helpful to average people.
Example...
Customer: How much will the gasoline cost tomorrow?
Business: Don't know.
That's a conversation that is not positive in any way, shape, or form. And yet that's exactly how the real world works (without unicorns).
2. lets go deeper into that path. knowing the fee varies, having to check what the current fee "might be" to then make a transaction. is not something people do when out shopping. if the fee worked out as 0.00035840 for your transaction.. average real world people wouldnt know if its best to make it 0.00035841, 0.00035850, 0.00036000 without having to do some maths in their head to work out high much extra premium they are actually adding
Certainly, it would be helpful if there were software that could recommend a fee that is likely to confirm in the next block. Perhaps with a little statistical analysis the software might even be able to suggest a range of fees that are likely to confirm in the next block, in a few blocks, or within the next 24 hours.
It would also be helpful if mining pools could offer a service that allows the recipient to pay the pool directly for guaranteed confirmation of transactions in the next block they solve (or within a few of their blocks, or within their next 100 blocks).
In the meantime, we are left with a protocol in its infancy without a lot of the layers and services that would provide ease of use for the average user.
3. by automating it to solve 1&2 would no longer make it a "free market", but structured inflation because now its automatically going to increase. not only that you cannot have a limitation on utility which you know would effect the fees.. no longer makes it a free market of choice but an auction house of limited stock for the rich and greedy to dominate
That's what a "free market" is. It's an auction house where the balance between the demand and the supply determines the value. If the supply isn't increased, then there isn't any way to prevent those that are willing to pay the most from purchasing the limited space for them selves. Of course that wouldn't prevent those that purchased on-chain space from providing off-chain solutions (or linked-to-chain solutions) for a fee.
4. even with a fee there are NO guarantee's it will be in the next block. there is only a "presumed high chance" due to outbidding your other X thousand competitors every 10 minutes.
Correct. You offer a fee, and if the space in the block isn't already taken up by those willing to pay more per unit of space, then you most likely get in (assuming the miner or pool isn't blacklisting you for some reason).
5. pretending everything is perfect fluffy unicorns to people already using bitcoin is futile propaganda. your trying to use a sales pitch for people already using it. your preaching to the converted and they have already seen the light. they do not need sales pitches. they have personal experience. which just so happens to contradicts the fluffy unicorn theory.
Not sure what the point was there or how to respond to it. It seems like you're trying to say that Bitcoin is a complex system and that those that are using are already aware of that? While I agree that it's a complex system, I'm not convinced that the majority (or even a large minority) are really aware of the complexities.
6. again saying if you pay the fee you will get in the next block.. is not guaranteed advice. if there are 5000 people making a transaction each.. even if they paid $20,000,000 as a fee each. not everyone is getting in the next block. no matter what you say its just not possible. there are no guarantees
Nope. No guarantees in bitcoin. It is a voluntary system. You aren't forced to use it. Your peers aren't forced to relay your transaction. The miners and pools aren't forced to confirm your transaction. It's all based on financial incentive and the assumption that most will operate in a fashion that is in their financial favor. However, if you pay a higher fee per byte than everyone else, it is VERY likely that you'll get into one of the next few blocks.
in short NEVER EVER EVER tell people bitcoin is a virtually free, instant payment system.
I don't think I ever have. But I agree that a lot of people have been misled with that idea and those people have in turn misled others, and they have misled others, and so on.
never tell anyone that "your merchant should accept zero confirms, blame them"
That one is debatable. I'd argue that as long as the merchant has software that can analyze the transaction and verify that the transaction meets certain conditions there can be an acceptable level of risk. Especially if the merchant has a trust relationship with you or other methods of recourse if your transaction fails.
never tell anyone that "its your fault for not paying a premium above everyone else"
That's not a very nice way to phrase it, but it's essentially true. If you are going to use a system, it is your responsibility to understand how to use it properly or suffer consequences when you don't. If someone drives too fast and looses control of their car, killing nearby pedestrians, it is the driver's fault for failing to operate their vehicle properly.
if you can only shout out blame but cannot come up with a solution to make things easier, without harming the system or the user experience. then you obviously lack many skills. one of which is PR. it is better to be honest and tell the world that bitcoin is not instant nor free. and let people come into bitcoin prepared. rather then lie lie lie and even insult those already using it,
You might want to work on your PR there. Your presentation is quite confrontational and isn't likely to bring around very many people to your way of thinking.
because they havnt found the unicorn you promise them
There's that unicorn again. I think we can probably send him home. He isn't really needed for this conversation.
do not over promise. basically.. be rational, be realistic. be honest. and whatever you do. do not promise them a better future if you have only read some words on paper about the future but not personally experienced the future first hand
Good advice. I think we are in agreement there.
lets word it a different way..
if every bitcoin service were to integrate automatically dynamic fee's checked/adjusted every time... the fee's would skyrocket every 10 minutes
And eventually the fees are high enough that some people don't feel like paying them, so they don't use bitcoin. This reduces the number of transactions a bit. Eventually this reduction in demand reaches an equilibrium with the available space where the number of transactions willing to pay the fee is roughly equivalent to the available space in the block.
Of course I think you and I are in agreement that this will severely limit the usage of on-chain bitcoin transactions. We'll probably reach a point where there are a few VERY LARGE bitcoin "banks" (such as Coinbase) that offer "accounts" to their customers. They'll handle transactions between their customers completely off-chain, and they'll settle up with other large services with hundreds of thousands of bitcoins moving in a single transaction that pays a fee of less than 1% (in other words a single fee of thousands of bitcoins). The average user will not be able to compete with such large transactions and will be financially forced off-chain.
