Please dont let bitcoinstore fail, your action is needed just about now.

[Isokivi]

It's not up to us to support someone else's ridiculously ambitious project. There is a word for that and it's not looked upon favorably on these forums...

Am I missing an elaborate point or are you calling me a sockpuppet ?
If not, would you please care to dumb it down.

Additionally, I personally don't support rampant consumerism, so no I will not be buying anything I don't absolutely need.

This I can appreciate, Im in no way saying you should go out and buy something you dont need, I personally find the consumer-culture we are forced to live in disgusting. For example a hundred years ago we had lightbulbs that lasted decades, havent seen one of those around in my lifetime.

[Isokivi]

I have kind of mixed feelings about this. On the one hand I would be very happy if Bitcoinstore managed to reach their goal. On the other hand, I feel they should be able to do this "on their own" without extra community efforts.
Anyway, for me, being an international customer, the problem is after including shipping, VAT and import tax, my domestic alternatives are usually more competitive.

But I really hope that they succeed in their $850k goal, as that would be a significant milestone for Bitcoin!

The $850k in a month is only a temporary thing. If they survive, from here on it will only be 850k every 3 months.

Im pretty sure it would need to be filled every qurter (3 months), but as Roger stated he started this buisness to fail. Fail because it should open the larger buisnesses like amazon's eyes to accepting bitcoin and pushing bitcoinstore out of the market trough healthy competition.

[Puppet]

I visited the site a few weeks ago and was willing to buy, despite my doubts about its customer support; however all the items I was interested in (nothing spectacular, a sata drive,  a spare android phone or tablet, and something I dont remember) where either very, VERY difficult to find, not available or seriously overpriced.

Bitcoinstore is a bold attempt, but its probably too bold at this point, especially when its not executed better than this.  Just accepting bitcoin isnt enough.

[lebing]

It's not up to us to support someone else's ridiculously ambitious project. There is a word for that and it's not looked upon favorably on these forums...

Am I missing an elaborate point or are you calling me a sockpuppet ?
If not, would you please care to dumb it down.

Socialism.

[HappMacDonald]

My action is needed now? Like I have $800kusd to donate to Roger, or to exchange for electronic goods I could never get $800kusd of use out of?

I bought a bunch of usb keyboards I didn't really need, just because I tend to go through those (so I might need them in the future) and that is one item cheaper through here than other places. So there's my $15-20usd onto the pile.

If people are hoarding because *they* believe the unit value will go up, then the solution is to slash the prices to reflect that same commitment at the merchant. Don't be 1% cheaper than bigbox on 30% of your stock, go 30% cheaper on 99% of the stock and go long on Bitcoin to make up the difference in capital gains if you expect to reach these levels of volume. Because then you'll actually attract non-coiners to get off their ass, and coiners to get great deals and possibly even reflog your product.

I don't think there is any other method to meet both the ambition of $800kusd in the next 3 weeks, or making Newegg or Amazon even realize that you're there.

[desired_username]

Why would anyone help them?  

As I have seen, their prices are way off. I wouldn't care if they lived or died. Bitcoin needs DECENT webshops around!

Helping a company like this, will not help bitcoin at all.

You do realize the bitcoin exchange rate gets checked at checkout, the prices in btc you see before that are outdated at best.

I'm talking about comparing their prices to other shops. Bitcoinstore looks rather expensive when you shop around. Why would I buy from them when I can get EVERYTHING cheaper elsewhere.

Bitcoin will do fine without this lowly shop. (It would be sad if they would have an impact at all on BTC)

In my opinion, what really benefits BTC are:

1.) Creation of unique services
2.) Already established companies adopting BTC (like wordpress, namecheap, etc)

[Isokivi]

It's not up to us to support someone else's ridiculously ambitious project. There is a word for that and it's not looked upon favorably on these forums...

Am I missing an elaborate point or are you calling me a sockpuppet ?
If not, would you please care to dumb it down.

Socialism.

How is saying that I like this service and the way they conduct their buisness and would like to encourage others to use it so it will be around the next time I need it socialism ?
Im trying very hard to follow your trail of tought, but failing miserably.

[lebing]

It's not up to us to support someone else's ridiculously ambitious project. There is a word for that and it's not looked upon favorably on these forums...

Am I missing an elaborate point or are you calling me a sockpuppet ?
If not, would you please care to dumb it down.

Socialism.

How is saying that I like this service and the way they conduct their buisness and would like to encourage others to use it so it will be around the next time I need it socialism ?
Im trying very hard to follow your trail of tought, but failing miserably.

You are essentially advocating that we support a project which is not succeeding by its own merit achieved in the free market(replace coins with taxes here if that helps you... in the end the mechanism ts the same...). Is that clear enough?

[Isokivi]

It's not up to us to support someone else's ridiculously ambitious project. There is a word for that and it's not looked upon favorably on these forums...

Am I missing an elaborate point or are you calling me a sockpuppet ?
If not, would you please care to dumb it down.

Socialism.

How is saying that I like this service and the way they conduct their buisness and would like to encourage others to use it so it will be around the next time I need it socialism ?
Im trying very hard to follow your trail of tought, but failing miserably.

You are essentially advocating that we support a project which is not succeeding by its own merit achieved in the free market(replace coins with taxes here if that helps you... in the end the mechanism ts the same...). Is that clear enough?

Still has nothing to do with socialism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Sure  one way to look at is is that I am advocating a buisness that is not meeting the goal set to them in a free market competition, no denying that. The other way (mine) is that I am advocating a buisness that has made a huge push for bitcoins mainstream acceptance. Something I think just about everyone on these forums can appreciate. If it werent for people making thes pushes we'd still be at an 10,000 coins to a pizza exchange rate and remain there indefinitely.

[Akka]

Well, that shop is a win/win for us. You get many products cheaper than anywhere else.

But I wouldn't buy anything I don't need anyway.

But 800k is a Target that they will never reach. It's just to much for our little economy.

Also if you don't live in the USA shipping costs make it actually more expensive for many products to order them there.

I looked into some hardware for me, but the shipping costs make it more expensive than to order it locally.

Example: Some PC systems price 51.445 BTC [$2,426.12] (very good deal!) additional shipping costs: 1.  International Priority 12.393 BTC [$584.41]  2. International First 24.924 BTC [$1,175.38]

So if I order via International First I have to pay additional 50% what makes it a very bad deal.

I really hope that projects succeeds and will be able to offer better service for Europe soon. But the current shipping costs make it a no go for me.  

[lebing]

It's not up to us to support someone else's ridiculously ambitious project. There is a word for that and it's not looked upon favorably on these forums...

Am I missing an elaborate point or are you calling me a sockpuppet ?
If not, would you please care to dumb it down.

Socialism.

How is saying that I like this service and the way they conduct their buisness and would like to encourage others to use it so it will be around the next time I need it socialism ?
Im trying very hard to follow your trail of tought, but failing miserably.

You are essentially advocating that we support a project which is not succeeding by its own merit achieved in the free market(replace coins with taxes here if that helps you... in the end the mechanism ts the same...). Is that clear enough?

Still has nothing to do with socialism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Sure  one way to look at is is that I am advocating a buisness that is not meeting the goal set to them in a free market competition, no denying that. The other way (mine) is that I am advocating a buisness that has made a huge push for bitcoins mainstream acceptance. Something I think just about everyone on these forums can appreciate. If it werent for people making thes pushes we'd still be at an 10,000 coins to a pizza exchange rate and remain there indefinitely.

The only difference is in what they own (part of the ownership of the enterprise or the crap the enterprise offers). That wasn't my point. My point was about supporting something which cannot survive on its own in the free market.

[Technomage]

This is an interesting discussion. I have to say that I agree with benjamindees. A Bitcoin only approach in a highly competitive market has never before worked, and it seems it doesn't work here either. Even though I respect Roger Ver as the Bitcoin Jesus, but he did lose the business perspective with this store. It was insanely ambitious to not accept any other payment methods and make a deal with a supplier that needs such a high volume to keep the deal going.

I run a small online store that is completely branded on Bitcoin and sells mostly Bitcoin merchandise, and some other products that people who like Bitcoin are often interested in, and we have the possibility of paying with SEPA and Bitcoin. Even though our SEPA payments are especially inconvenient, they have to be done manually in the online banking, still 3/4 of our customers pay with it. Only 1/4 pay with bitcoins. This is just the reality right now, people need to deal with it.

I recently bought over 500€ worth of electronics, and even though I was well aware of Bitcoin Store, I didn't use it. Why? They didn't have the monitor that I wanted. Even if they had it, it would've been a tough choice. I have a very low time preference when I make the decision to buy electronics. When I decide I want it, I want it now. I got the stuff from a Finnish online store in just 3 days, it would've taken around 2 weeks from Bitcoin Store. That is extremely important as well. So Bitcoin Store had slightly cheaper prices, but lacked an important product, and it's also slower.

I'm as pro Bitcoin as anyone here, that is for sure, and I had a need for some electronics, but I still didn't use Bitcoin Store. I do think it's the same for many others. I've bought stuff with bitcoins before, it's more convenient than any other payment method, but it's not the only criteria when I choose where to buy stuff. If the store's are more or less equal, I'd be quite happy to pay with bitcoins, but I'm not going out of my way to support a Bitcoin store that just doesn't work for me, and has a bad business model.

[Technomage]

Adding socialism into this discussion is completely beside the point. It's not socialism to have a community and recommend others in a community to use a certain store, and support it. It has nothing to do with socialism. Each and every one of us can, with no consequences whatsoever, ignore this recommendation, if we wish. I'm personally ignoring it but I don't think it has anything to do with socialism.

[hugolp]

If they had a warhouse in Europe I promise you I would be buying everything from them. I was looking at a new microwave oven and the price was fine but the problem is the shipping fees to Europe were as much as the microwave itself, thus doubling the price. I feel like the USA bitcoiners will have to take the slack on this one since the shop is obviously aimed at them. I hope the shop does well and we can get something similar in Europe soon.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

This is an interesting discussion. I have to say that I agree with benjamindees. A Bitcoin only approach in a highly competitive market has never before worked, and it seems it doesn't work here either. Even though I respect Roger Ver as the Bitcoin Jesus, but he did lose the business perspective with this store. It was insanely ambitious to not accept any other payment methods and make a deal with a supplier that needs such a high volume to keep the deal going.

+1, I have also suggested in the past that they also take traditional payment methods.  Now, you are just artificially limiting your target audience, and the bitcoin economy/community, while growing fast, isn't that big yet.  Maybe the whole project is a year too early.  Then again, they probably put a lot more thought into this than I did, and I am still hoping they will succeed, quite nice to be able to buy all that equipment with bitcoins at a good price. (the growing bitcoin price should give a good financial buffer as well)

EDIT: European warehouse would be nice indeed.

[Isokivi]

This is an interesting discussion. I have to say that I agree with benjamindees. A Bitcoin only approach in a highly competitive market has never before worked, and it seems it doesn't work here either. Even though I respect Roger Ver as the Bitcoin Jesus, but he did lose the business perspective with this store. It was insanely ambitious to not accept any other payment methods and make a deal with a supplier that needs such a high volume to keep the deal going.

+1, I have also suggested in the past that they also take traditional payment methods.  Now, you are just artificially limiting your target audience, and the bitcoin economy/community, while growing fast, isn't that big yet.  Maybe the whole project is a year too early.  Then again, they probably put a lot more thought into this than I did, and I am still hoping they will succeed, quite nice to be able to buy all that equipment with bitcoins at a good price. (the growing bitcoin price should give a good financial buffer as well)

EDIT: European warehouse would be nice indeed.

Accepting other means of payment is perhaps the move by which Roger buys the next three month period, without meeting the quota. Who knos, this could be going as planned.
A european warehouse would be nice indeed 24% vat in my neck of the woods.

[Technomage]

European warehouse would also increase the speed of delivery significantly, which is something I personally value, probably more than the average buyer. Speed / cost ratio is important as well.

[SaintFlow]

This needs 9th degree blackbelt in international shippingjitsu

[Herodes]

The http://bitcoinstore.com/ front page's counter puts them at 12% of the needed goal of 850k in sales during the first quarter, the goal is needed to keep them at their current pricing. It is by far the most ambitious push for bitcoins mainstream acceptance we have so far seen. I myself have bought 364$ worth of sdd hardrives. Recieved them and am pleased with how everything went. Im browsing to find something more I could use as we speak, but I can only do so mch. If you care about bitcoin, have some and need any electronics now is the time to act. The counter currently stands at 110,964 / 850,000$. They are beating all or nearly all their competitors in prices, simply because their profit margin stands at what normally goes to creditcard companies.

Seeing the counter as low as it is makes me sort of feel ashamed for this community. We really can and most certainly should do better.

[disclamer: the poster is in no way more affiliated with bitcoinstore than being a customer, who cares deeply about their venture succeeding.]

The time to act is now.

deeply concerned

- Isokivi

As much as I appreciate Roger Ver and his efforts for Bitcoin, I don't see how the community should be called out to help his enterprise survice like this. Setting a target of sales of 850 000 the first month is very optimistic. I think a better way would be just to start and see how it goes, and then build from there. It's not possible to start a business, and then rely on the income for the first month to decide whether the business is to continue or not. If Ver and associates has done deals that demands that they have sales worth 850 000 USD in the first month as a condition to continue their business partnerships, then that's not a very smart move imo.

From where I stand, 110K USD of sales seems like an astounding success to me, while I understand that this is far below the target, I wouldn't expect a store selling products denominated in bitcoins to have sales going through the skyes at this point.

Most businesses start out slow, and then grow by time, and bitcoinstore.com is no different. While we can help them succeed, calling on the community to make them succeed I'm not sure of will be happening.

I was contemplating purchasing from their store when doing a purchase, I wrote about it here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145572.0

In the end I decided to buy locally as I found it safer, I asked them about bitcoin acceptance, which they declined. As you can see, there didn't seem to be much community interest about the issue anyway..

This being said, I wish BitcoinStore success, and hope they will not close doors even if they don't meet their wanted sales volume for the first month!

[BIGMERVE]

So let's say they somehow make the 850K goal. What happens next quarter? Do they have to do another 850K?. Where I work if you don't keep up sales each month the manufacturers drop you.