I think Ethereum will be finished after this attack

[craslovell]

I invite all ETH miners and users to begin using Emercoin. It will be switching to merged mining with BTC as well.

[toknormal]

On balance, I've decided not to dump my Ether holdings since I think the project will probably survive this.

I'm basically anti-fork because for me that violates one of the core principles of smart contracts, but all the same it's a pretty incredible piece of technology if you've ever tried messing around with Solidity - fork or no fork.

There is one reason above all else for holding though: If Ethereum gets through this it will have survived a massive battering, meanwhile all other smart contract blockchains will have it all in front of them. Rights of passage phase is of huge value and I really don't see the work that's gone on in this project being reproduced too soon.

The real buck stops with investors in the DAO. They should loose their funds, end of story.

One of the reasons that this is such a huge clusterfuck is that the DAO was massively overvalued. People invested in an untested peice of solidity code - nothing else. The DAO had no other assets. It didn't own shares in any going concerns, had no money, no staff, no premises and no work in progress. The slightest bit of due diligence would tell you that thats a high risk investment that's worth a small premium over hot air.

Also, whatever lessons are to be learned about valuing DACs, the system worked. The losses are confined to the DAO and need to stay there IMO. Let the chips fall where they may.

It's still an exciting development environment that is unique and powerful so I think I'll probably hang onto my coins regardless of their exchange rate. (In fact I might pick up a few more cos that what Warren Buffet would do at this point )

[Minecache]

On balance, I've decided not to dump my Ether holdings since I think the project will probably survive this.

I'm basically anti-fork because for me that violates one of the core principles of smart contracts, but all the same it's a pretty incredible piece of technology if you've ever tried messing around with Solidity - fork or no fork.

There is one reason above all else for holding though: If Ethereum gets through this it will have survived a massive battering, meanwhile all other smart contract blockchains will have it all in front of them. Rights of passage phase is of huge value and I really don't see the work that's gone on in this project being reproduced too soon.

The real buck stops with investors in the DAO. They should loose their funds, end of story.

One of the reasons that this is such a huge clusterfuck is that the DAO was massively overvalued. People invested in an untested peice of solidity code - nothing else. The DAO had no other assets. It didn't own shares in any going concerns, had no money, no staff, no premises and no work in progress. The slightest bit of due diligence would tell you that thats a high risk investment that's worth a small premium over hot air.

Also, whatever lessons are to be learned about valuing DACs, the system worked. The losses are confined to the DAO and need to stay there IMO. Let the chips fall where they may.

It's still an exciting development environment that is unique and powerful so I think I'll probably hang onto my coins regardless of their exchange rate. (In fact I might pick up a few more cos that what Warren Buffet would do at this point )

I'm with you and thanks for putting it more eloquently than I ever could. I invested in DAO and agree that it should cut its loses for now. I still believe in a DAO and all that it will stand for, basically giving the little man the opportunity to invest whee only VC funds could in the past. Why others are so virulently against this right is beyond me. One day I expect after all this is blown over there will be a DAO2.0. Just with better coders.

[toknormal]

I'm with you and thanks for putting it more eloquently than I ever could. I invested in DAO and agree that it should cut its loses for now. I still believe in a DAO and all that it will stand for, basically giving the little man the opportunity to invest whee only VC funds could in the past. Why others are so virulently against this right is beyond me. One day I expect after all this is blown over there will be a DAO2.0. Just with better coders.

Sorry about your disappointment - didn't intend to sound mean, but I think objectively one needs to look at the mechanics of the thing above all else.

Also, I don't know if better coding is the answer ultimately. Things need to progress on the basis that smart contract code will fail, not that it won't. There are a huge amount of use cases where the value doesn't actually have to be held by the contract. The world is currently running on software code. That code is failing left right and centre, yet it doesn't cause catastrophic losses.

I think the answer lies in using software as it's always been used - for automating tedious logic in a way that if it fails it simply means things need to be done by hand instead, not that it changes outcomes catastrophically. That means a sensible mix of redundant automation and human intervention. Either of those could have prevented the DAO catastrophe.

Evolution of blockchains is one thing but smart contracts are where rocket technology was in the 1940's. There's gonna be a few 180's at 500 feet before they get into orbit on a regular basis  

[iamnotback]

I'm with you and thanks for putting it more eloquently than I ever could. I invested in DAO and agree that it should cut its loses for now. I still believe in a DAO and all that it will stand for, basically giving the little man the opportunity to invest whee only VC funds could in the past. Why others are so virulently against this right is beyond me. One day I expect after all this is blown over there will be a DAO2.0. Just with better coders.

Also, I don't know if better coding is the answer ultimately. Things need to progress on the basis that smart contract code will fail, not that it won't. There are a huge amount of use cases where the value doesn't actually have to be held by the contract.

toknormal, very astute. That is indeed part of the solution.

Minecache, the problem with The DAO is not only bad code, but also the design was game theory broken as well.

[toknormal]

Hello Anonymint.

I see you're back.

[Minecache]

I'm with you and thanks for putting it more eloquently than I ever could. I invested in DAO and agree that it should cut its loses for now. I still believe in a DAO and all that it will stand for, basically giving the little man the opportunity to invest whee only VC funds could in the past. Why others are so virulently against this right is beyond me. One day I expect after all this is blown over there will be a DAO2.0. Just with better coders.

Also, I don't know if better coding is the answer ultimately. Things need to progress on the basis that smart contract code will fail, not that it won't. There are a huge amount of use cases where the value doesn't actually have to be held by the contract.

toknormal, very astute. That is indeed part of the solution.

Minecache, the problem with The DAO is not only bad code, but also the design was game theory broken as well.

I agree and it needs to be fixed/amended for a DAO2.0. It's likely the DAO is currently too ahead of its time but I believe it will come. We only learn from our mistakes and successes. It doesn't mean that running the race was wrong. All technological advances suffer this from inception. It was naive to think otherwise.

[iamnotback]

It's likely the DAO is currently too ahead of its time but I believe it will come.

No there is a mass market for it right now, but those Ethereum guys (including Vitalik's blogs about it) have the design entirely wrong conceptually. They are off in the entirely wrong direction conceptually. And that includes Devest and any one else copying The DAO's conceptual design. And I am not going to tell you how to do correctly until I have some code ready to launch.

[Minecache]

It's likely the DAO is currently too ahead of its time but I believe it will come.

No there is a mass market for it right now, but those guys have the design entirely wrong conceptually. They are off in the entirely wrong direction conceptually. And that includes Devest and any one else copying The DAO's conceptual design. And I am not going to tell you how to do correctly until I have some code ready to launch.

No sorry I don't think the mass market is there right now. Just look at how many, supposed crypto currency supporters just hate on the DAO and are happy to see it fail just because they can't comprehend it. This is internet 1993. "Why do we need this?" It needs to be sold to the doubters before mass market appears. I.e. There were only circa 20,000+ DAO investors in total. And I knew 3 of them.

[angaper]

I think this issue only highlights the fragility of this virtual economy, because there will always be a shrewd man capable of infringing the strongest cryptography. 

Let's face it: Virtual economy is just a utopia that never will be 100% reliable and secure, and these risks will remain forever.

[iamnotback]

I think this issue only highlights the fragility of this virtual economy, because there will always be a shrewd man capable of infringing the strongest cryptography.  

Let's face it: Virtual economy is just a utopia that never will be 100% reliable and secure, and these risks will remain forever.

Sorry for this frank afront, but you apparently lack technical understanding and I am faulting you for willingly trying to promulgate FUD. Please don't promulgate lies. Do you understand the math and computer science?

The fragility was because Vitalik ignored all of us who told him not to release Turing-complete block chain scripting willynilly into the wild.

[Bit_Happy]

I think Ethereum will be no more among us after this attack, the issues to it will be fixed sooner but i don't think that it will survive for longer , it will die in this year.

DAO raised ~$150M! WTF is wrong with you people?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518924.0

[iamnotback]

It's likely the DAO is currently too ahead of its time but I believe it will come.

No there is a mass market for it right now, but those guys have the design entirely wrong conceptually. They are off in the entirely wrong direction conceptually. And that includes Devest and any one else copying The DAO's conceptual design. And I am not going to tell you how to do correctly until I have some code ready to launch.

No sorry I don't think the mass market is there right now. Just look at how many, supposed crypto currency supporters just hate on the DAO and are happy to see it fail just because they can't comprehend it. This is internet 1993. "Why do we need this?" It needs to be sold to the doubters before mass market appears. I.e. There were only circa 20,000+ DAO investors in total. And I knew 3 of them.

The problem is the way of, and the design of what you are, marketing. I will show you how to do it.

Specifically marketing a delusion broken design to n00bs, instead of marketing a seriously beneficial product to those who can use it for revolutionizing corporations.

[sase007]

Based on the sophistication of the problems/hacks of Ethereum, I don't think it will ever come back!
Even if this attack is solved, there will be peopl ethat will have already "dumped" their ethereum for a better coin that is more stable and less volatile or prone to these attacks!

[Spoetnik]

I'm optimistic about Ethereum. I think it won't be finished.

Exactly. At least Ethereum has a united supportive community and dev base. Unlike BTC. Which only rose revelry due to pure speculation on the halvening. Expect it to crash soon after as the centralised Chinese miners (how many are there now, like 2?) crash the market.

Playing the failed "community" card  

Ok for one thing you are WRONG.

As i said during the height of Doge Coin's popularity..
Your so called community is a facade.. AND YOU KNOW IT (more deceitful commentary from you)

Just like Doge coin's so called "Community" it is made up of greedy profiteers
who planned from the start to dump it for profit & run when they think it's time.
Ethereum is in no way different.. actually worse because it was never intended to be a "CURRENCY"
as as some tried to make out Doge coin to be.

Further more..
The leader of the Doge coin "community" announced he was abandoning the coin..
Because of what he said was a "Lack of community support" !

YOU ..are once again competently and utterly full of fucking shit mETH head ShillTard.

AND..

The only thing in short supply with Ethereum ..is "THE SUPPLY"  
How many are there going to be now ?

Hey NOOBcache, say more dumb shit so i can ride your ass like a pony and laugh at you *more*

Clown  


EDIT:
I am curious do you ever get tired of me owning your ass here daily or what ?

League bitch.. LEAGUE !

[btcxyzzz]

ETH--> FINISHED.

Must be. Especially because you've colored and bolded your letters.

[anthonydar]

ETH--> FINISHED.

Must be. Especially because you've colored and bolded your letters.

The market does not care about the color. In the market, the money talks. The price of Ethereum rose 20% in the last 24 hours.

[Juhagic]

I invite all ETH miners and users to begin using Emercoin. It will be switching to merged mining with BTC as well.

Eth miners cannot miner Emercoin if that is SHA256 coin. The Ehtereum still has some life left at the moment.

[BillyBobZorton]

I think Ethereum will be no more among us after this attack, the issues to it will be fixed sooner but i don't think that it will survive for longer , it will die in this year.

Vitalik Buterin did the mistake of his life by pannicking about people panic selling and demanding that exchanges froze the ETH markets... I mean what the FUCK? Think about this for a moment. This is terrible and sets a scary precedent. This would never happen with BTC because everyone knows it would be a disaster.

Wasn't there a bitcoin snafu where it went to 1c briefly because there was a major code problem in early days, like 2011 or 2012?

Yes and this is consistently overlooked by Spoetniktards.

Not the same at all. BTC had a PROTOCOL problem, and BTC was tiny back then, no one even cared. ETH problem is just money being "stolen" (not really since "hacker" just used the contract's code), and marketcap is on the millions of dollars.
When was the last time satoshi told exchanges to freeze all funds? Get real, ETH is fucked, BTC as solid as ever.

you sir do not understand why eth coin has value and will survive this.   Eth coin still mines at a profit and is the cheapest way to mine BTC via simple sell  your mined eth for btc.

please  sir remember that intel, nvidia ,amd all desktop mining industry wants a good gpu mined coin that allows for discounts on your gaming gear.


The only thing I would concede is any gpu coin that turns a mining profit works for the above major companies so if a gpu coin comes out that is better then eth so be it miners will switch.

Dude get real I don't have anything personal against ETH  but Vitalik Buterin fucked up big time after he wanted to halt all tradings to stop panic sells, this is centralization..

[stan26]

Ethereum will probably be fine but a lot of people will probably take a second look at other currencies besides Ethereum.