ETH = Game Over

[mining1]

Lol, ethereum is not attacked, it was for a few hours few days ago, devs found a short-medium term fix. In the meantime, confirmation came yesterday https://cointelegraph.com/news/santander-confirms-fiat-backed-token-project-on-ethereum-blockchain

[JayJuanGee]

I must say that I remain a bit surprised concerning how long ETH retains nearly a 10x price premium on ETC...

I had actually expected some kind short-term dump of ETC, maybe lasting a couple of months and then slowly movement over a year or so towards ETH/ETC price parity (whether that is ETH prices coming down or ETC prices going up or a combination of both), yet with the current price actions and dynamics, I see that it could take quite a while for the matter to play out.  So it looks like ETH's game is not over, no?

Surely, I do not view any ETH/ETC price predictions as certain, so in that regard, we can recognize probablistic outcomes at any point in time which probabilities of price movement in one direction or another change with the passage of time and the occurrence of events previously unknown affects such price directions. 

I guess part of my point here is regarding the surprising nature of the ongoing 10x ETH/ETC price differential...

What's up next for ETH/ETC?  1 month? 6 months?  1 year? Anyone?

[RealBitcoin]

I must say that I remain a bit surprised concerning how long ETH retains nearly a 10x price premium on ETC...

It is totally crazy, investors must be very dumb.

I think it will collapse sooner than later, but that may last some more.

[mining1]

I must say that I remain a bit surprised concerning how long ETH retains nearly a 10x price premium on ETC...
I had actually expected some kind short-term dump of ETC, maybe lasting a couple of months and then slowly movement over a year or so towards ETH/ETC price parity (whether that is ETH prices coming down or ETC prices going up or a combination of both), yet with the current price actions and dynamics, I see that it could take quite a while for the matter to play out.  So it looks like ETH's game is not over, no?
What's up next for ETH/ETC?  1 month? 6 months?  1 year? Anyone?

Lol. What's your IQ ? Why should ETC and ETH have same price ? What's good about ETC ? The fact that it simply exist doesn't mean anything. It doesn't have a developing team, a huge community and therefore a huge hashing power for security, over 10 corporations building on it, over probably 500 projects / dapps being build on it, some already live running, some in alpha stages.
Truth be told i'm surprised it's value is higher than expanse, a clone of ethereum with a small developing team and a clear roadmap ( even though i didn't read it but i know they have one ).
ETC to ethereum is now what litecoin is to bitcoin. Once more and more dapps start to roll out, especially the big ones, then the price will increase alot and the remaining whales in ETC will have to pump the price or let it die because at that point it's profitability compared to ethereum will be too low and more miners will switch, therefore the security will be lower.

[RealBitcoin]

What's good about ETC ? The fact that it simply exist doesn't mean anything. It doesn't have a developing team, a huge community and therefore a huge hashing power for security, over 10 corporations building on it, over probably 500 projects / dapps being build on it, some already live running, some in alpha stages.

Exactly, that is why I think ETC is a scam.

But that doesnt mean that ETH is good, i think the 1 billion price is still overvalued for something that has shown little or no feasable application yet.

The only tangible thing they put on the table was the DAO, and that was a fuck-up as well. How can investors be this stupid?

It's almost like investing in boiler room scam stocks....

[dinofelis]

But with ETH, i bet there are zero day bugs that could cause a lot of harm, if not for the system itself, but for smart contracts, like how the DAO got screwed.

I would even say, it is unavoidable on a Turing complete instruction set such as ethereum.  There's no way to write guaranteed secure code on such a system.  If we knew how to do so, there wouldn't be any vulnerable system, because all software would be written that way.

[mining1]

What's good about ETC ? The fact that it simply exist doesn't mean anything. It doesn't have a developing team, a huge community and therefore a huge hashing power for security, over 10 corporations building on it, over probably 500 projects / dapps being build on it, some already live running, some in alpha stages.

Exactly, that is why I think ETC is a scam.

But that doesnt mean that ETH is good, i think the 1 billion price is still overvalued for something that has shown little or no feasable application yet.

The only tangible thing they put on the table was the DAO, and that was a fuck-up as well. How can investors be this stupid?

It's almost like investing in boiler room scam stocks....

Shown little or no feasable application ? You kidding right ? Read what i just said above. There is simply too much interest in ethereum from corporations and too many projects dapps being build on it. The biggest project currently up and running at this moment is digix i think. DAO was huge but it was a smart contract not very well coded.
Atm the price is ~13$ because most day traders exited because they hoped the price would drop more after the ddos attacks and they could buy more ether. But as you can see EF is doing great in mitigating those attacks so they might have to enter back at a loss or not at all. There are just too many positive news and the future looks bright. What do you think it will happen if santander's research with ethereum reach the conclusion that they can actually do this ? http://www.coindesk.com/santander-vies-become-first-bank-issue-digital-cash-blockchain/ . Or after akasha is released ? Keep in mind this: Every project like the DAO can be attacked, but the dao only had impact because it had huge amount of ether stored on it. Most projects / dapps not only won't have much ether stored on them, but none at all. Some may even have stored other cryptocurrencies aswell not only ether. So DAO was a special case because it was like an investment fund. But i don't think there will be a similar project being build on ethereum any time soon, that can be drained. So in the worst case scenarios, the future dapps / projects will have bugs or ddos attacks that will slow them down, and that's all.

[Spoetnik]

I must say that I remain a bit surprised concerning how long ETH retains nearly a 10x price premium on ETC...

I had actually expected some kind short-term dump of ETC, maybe lasting a couple of months and then slowly movement over a year or so towards ETH/ETC price parity (whether that is ETH prices coming down or ETC prices going up or a combination of both), yet with the current price actions and dynamics, I see that it could take quite a while for the matter to play out.  So it looks like ETH's game is not over, no?

Surely, I do not view any ETH/ETC price predictions as certain, so in that regard, we can recognize probablistic outcomes at any point in time which probabilities of price movement in one direction or another change with the passage of time and the occurrence of events previously unknown affects such price directions.  

I guess part of my point here is regarding the surprising nature of the ongoing 10x ETH/ETC price differential...

What's up next for ETH/ETC?  1 month? 6 months?  1 year? Anyone?

Simple.. the ETH price is MANIPULATED and fake and the ETC price is NOT.

Did you assume the Manipulators behind ETH were going to jump ship and start screwing with ETC equally ?
Not when you launch a competitor LOL

[dinofelis]

I must say that I remain a bit surprised concerning how long ETH retains nearly a 10x price premium on ETC...

I had actually expected some kind short-term dump of ETC, maybe lasting a couple of months and then slowly movement over a year or so towards ETH/ETC price parity (whether that is ETH prices coming down or ETC prices going up or a combination of both), yet with the current price actions and dynamics, I see that it could take quite a while for the matter to play out.  So it looks like ETH's game is not over, no?

If ETC and ETH, which are essentially identical products, were to have REAL USE as a DAPP platform, then near parity should occur economically, because "gas" on the cheaper chain is cheaper.   In as much as the demand for ETC/ETH would mainly have been to "pay for the gas", then parity would be inavoidable, and DAPPs would go to the cheapest chain, because the usage of the DAPP would be cheaper and hence more attractive.  This would rise the demand for the cheapest coin such, until parity is reached ; except if there is some "brand preference" effect which could explain some preference to use "more expensive" coins to burn because of a real or perceived higher quality.

But ETC nor ETH is used so much that its use has what so ever to do with the market price, which is PURE SPECULATION, and hence TOTALLY RANDOM.

The market price of ETH (or ETC) has nothing to do with its usage, which is essentially absent.  It is just a betting token in a casino.  And concerning betting, all odds are off.  

Note that we have exactly the same scenario with bitcoin, where the market cap that is sustained by the demand to use it as a *currency* is negligible compared to its real market cap, which is also nothing else but pure speculation, and hence totally random.

One has to face it: crypto is not used, or almost not.  Its market cap is essentially just tokens in a zero-sum casino.  And as such, anything goes.

The usage market cap of crypto is, totally ignorant guess, probably not even sustaining a market cap of a million dollars.

[RealBitcoin]

What's good about ETC ? The fact that it simply exist doesn't mean anything. It doesn't have a developing team, a huge community and therefore a huge hashing power for security, over 10 corporations building on it, over probably 500 projects / dapps being build on it, some already live running, some in alpha stages.

Exactly, that is why I think ETC is a scam.

But that doesnt mean that ETH is good, i think the 1 billion price is still overvalued for something that has shown little or no feasable application yet.

The only tangible thing they put on the table was the DAO, and that was a fuck-up as well. How can investors be this stupid?

It's almost like investing in boiler room scam stocks....

Shown little or no feasable application ? You kidding right ?

   

September 18, 2016: All geth nodes crash due to an out of memory bug. A specially crafted block makes geth, the most popular Ethereum node software, to request huge amounts of RAM, and thus crash. According to some reports, 85% of all Ethereum nodes are running Geth at the time. All of them were crashing, services (and wallets) which relied on them couldn't function.
    September 22: "Today the network was attacked by a transaction spam attack that repeatedly called the EXTCODESIZE opcode (see trace sample here), thereby creating blocks that take up to ~20-60 seconds to validate due to the ~50,000 disk fetches needed to process the transaction. The result of this was a ~2-3x reduction in the rate of block creation while the attack was taking place; there was NO consensus failure". Ethereum blocks should normally appear each ~15 seconds, but they take ~20-60 seconds to validate. Thus a normal node just couldn't keep up with blocks. Thankfully, miners got slowed down too, so there was "NO consensus failure" this time.
    September 25: "attacker has changed strategy ... Basically, it's now a quadratic memory complexity attack but using CALL instead of EXTCODESIZE. However because the gas limit is only 1.5m, the effect is lower, so geth nodes are just running more slowly and not crashing outright. "   

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/54k3z3/glad_to_see_my_intuition_being_right_on_ethereum/

[mining1]

If you think people gonna build dapps on ETC, you are delusional. This is not a currency only project, it needs leadership / developers. Or you haven't noticed how fast the attacks on the  Ethereum network have been tackled by ethereum foundation ? Nobody is going to build anything substantial on ETC because there's no development / developers, no leadership, no security with an uncertain future.

[JayJuanGee]

I must say that I remain a bit surprised concerning how long ETH retains nearly a 10x price premium on ETC...

It is totally crazy, investors must be very dumb.

I think it will collapse sooner than later, but that may last some more.

Yep... I think several folks remain baffled, and without being an "insider" it is going to continue to be difficult to predict - because markets retain some irrational components and group momentum that is difficult to determine exactly, if at all, the momentum will change course, and under what circumstances will cause such a change.

[Nimbulan]

Ethereum is having Ddos attack again and the developer confirmed that be careful for those who using desktop wallet before thats the targets of the hacker OMG why they doing this on ethereum , it was nice and the price is stable in up and down

you are right, it is funny to see how people are actually still believing in eth, i would buy etc instead

[JayJuanGee]

I must say that I remain a bit surprised concerning how long ETH retains nearly a 10x price premium on ETC...
I had actually expected some kind short-term dump of ETC, maybe lasting a couple of months and then slowly movement over a year or so towards ETH/ETC price parity (whether that is ETH prices coming down or ETC prices going up or a combination of both), yet with the current price actions and dynamics, I see that it could take quite a while for the matter to play out.  So it looks like ETH's game is not over, no?
What's up next for ETH/ETC?  1 month? 6 months?  1 year? Anyone?

Lol. What's your IQ ?

why does my IQ matter?  There is no correct answer to any of these kinds of assessment.  People can provide opinions and they can provide logic and facts to back up their opinions, and if your opinion differs from someone else, that does not necessarily mean that you are smart and they are dumb - even though sometimes that could be the proper conclusion to reach.

Why should ETC and ETH have same price ?

There is no "should"   I am talking about a probablistic opinion about the price direction and gravitation of the price.

I could give a shit about either ETC or ETH, and they are both likely shit and they are both likely going to continue to evolve, so what is said now, may not be the case in several months from now... so who the fuck knows?

I am not sure whether it is worth it to cover material facts, but I will attempt a little bit.  When ETH forked off of ETC, there was little difference between the two, except for that ETC was saying that they disagreed with the reversing of the DAO hack, and they disagreed with quasi-centralization of decision-making by imposing the hardfork.  They made an attempt to stay the same as ETC, except for their refusal to go along with mutating for the reasons given by the ethereum foundation related to the DAO attack.

In any event, I would suggest that there is more value to decentralization rather than centralization, yet ETC (decentralized) is priced 10x lower than ETH (quasi-centralized), therefore something seems to be wrong with the current price finding, and they seem likely to gravitate towards parity.  Of course, a variety of currently unknown future events could change this dynamic.

What's good about ETC ?

I already said that ETC and ETH are both crap and nearly identical, yet ETC has embraced immutability and decentralization.    Whether that is good or bad, to me, at the time being, it seems better than the course chosen by ETH.

The fact that it simply exist doesn't mean anything. It doesn't have a developing team, a huge community and therefore a huge hashing power for security, over 10 corporations building on it, over probably 500 projects / dapps being build on it, some already live running, some in alpha stages.

Could be that some of this could matter, maybe or maybe not? 

Truth be told i'm surprised it's value is higher than expanse, a clone of ethereum with a small developing team and a clear roadmap ( even though i didn't read it but i know they have one ).

ETC is the original ETH without the fork. 

ETC to ethereum is now what litecoin is to bitcoin.

doesn't sound like a good comparison.  Factual circumstances are different.

Once more and more dapps start to roll out, especially the big ones, then the price will increase alot and the remaining whales in ETC will have to pump the price or let it die because at that point it's profitability compared to ethereum will be too low and more miners will switch, therefore the security will be lower.

You are talking about future events as if they are certainties.  Sure, what you are saying is possible, but it remains a probable outcome, and probably you are placing a higher likelihood on your description as compared to me placing a higher likelihood that the two coins are going to approach parity.. maybe they will not reach parity, but in my view there is likely going to remain an ongoing tendency towards parity rather than ETH to the moon and ETC to the dumps, as you seem to be suggesting.. .Yeah, we can have different viewpoints, no problem.  Just don't try to act as if you have some kind of superior vision, merely because your vision is different from mine.  And, again, I could give a ratt's ass about either of those two shitty coins, even if there may be some enthusiasm, innovation and interesting developments occurring within each of them, and likely, as you suggested, more developments going on within ETH rather than ETC.. I'll concede to you about that.

[JayJuanGee]

What's good about ETC ? The fact that it simply exist doesn't mean anything. It doesn't have a developing team, a huge community and therefore a huge hashing power for security, over 10 corporations building on it, over probably 500 projects / dapps being build on it, some already live running, some in alpha stages.

Exactly, that is why I think ETC is a scam.

But that doesnt mean that ETH is good, i think the 1 billion price is still overvalued for something that has shown little or no feasable application yet.

The only tangible thing they put on the table was the DAO, and that was a fuck-up as well. How can investors be this stupid?

It's almost like investing in boiler room scam stocks....

Shown little or no feasable application ? You kidding right ? Read what i just said above. There is simply too much interest in ethereum from corporations and too many projects dapps being build on it.

That's called hype and marketing.  Don't get mixed up about those kinds of factors.

The biggest project currently up and running at this moment is digix i think. DAO was huge but it was a smart contract not very well coded.

Yes, we are likely going to see a lot of future projects with Ethereum that are "not very well coded"  - that is to the extent that they are able to continue to hype it.

Atm the price is ~13$ because most day traders exited because they hoped the price would drop more after the ddos attacks and they could buy more ether. But as you can see EF is doing great in mitigating those attacks so they might have to enter back at a loss or not at all. There are just too many positive news and the future looks bright. What do you think it will happen if santander's research with ethereum reach the conclusion that they can actually do this ? http://www.coindesk.com/santander-vies-become-first-bank-issue-digital-cash-blockchain/ . Or after akasha is released ? Keep in mind this: Every project like the DAO can be attacked, but the dao only had impact because it had huge amount of ether stored on it. Most projects / dapps not only won't have much ether stored on them, but none at all. Some may even have stored other cryptocurrencies aswell not only ether. So DAO was a special case because it was like an investment fund. But i don't think there will be a similar project being build on ethereum any time soon, that can be drained. So in the worst case scenarios, the future dapps / projects will have bugs or ddos attacks that will slow them down, and that's all.

Yes, we will have to see how these various investments play out.  People like you can chose to put their money into it, and maybe you will get lucky.  i am not going to personally bet on such odds, such centralization and mutability and all over the thinking by a bunch of kids, including Vitalik.  He may be a "genius,"  but he also is all over the place in terms of logic and pie in the sky visions of the world and crypto applications that are likely far before their times.  Good for the rest of us, to witness the experimental grounds, even though it may be a bit sad to see some investors losing their money on such pie in the sky concepts and marketing.

[jmpFCE2]

eth is so dead, Thanks so much for the heads up , useless sohn!!!

[Minecache]

Is this troll shitthread still going? ETH isn't dead which we can all agree on now so it's time the mods locked this one down.

[Spoetnik]

If you think people gonna build dapps on ETC, you are delusional. This is not a currency only project, it needs leadership / developers. Or you haven't noticed how fast the attacks on the  Ethereum network have been tackled by ethereum foundation ? Nobody is going to build anything substantial on ETC because there's no development / developers, no leadership, no security with an uncertain future.

So ETH is better because it's seriously centralized ?

@Minecache
The popularity of Ethereum has been decimated.. you are in pure denial.
Or being a dishonest fraud.

[JayJuanGee]

I must say that I remain a bit surprised concerning how long ETH retains nearly a 10x price premium on ETC...

I had actually expected some kind short-term dump of ETC, maybe lasting a couple of months and then slowly movement over a year or so towards ETH/ETC price parity (whether that is ETH prices coming down or ETC prices going up or a combination of both), yet with the current price actions and dynamics, I see that it could take quite a while for the matter to play out.  So it looks like ETH's game is not over, no?

If ETC and ETH, which are essentially identical products, were to have REAL USE as a DAPP platform, then near parity should occur economically, because "gas" on the cheaper chain is cheaper.   In as much as the demand for ETC/ETH would mainly have been to "pay for the gas", then parity would be inavoidable, and DAPPs would go to the cheapest chain, because the usage of the DAPP would be cheaper and hence more attractive.  This would rise the demand for the cheapest coin such, until parity is reached ; except if there is some "brand preference" effect which could explain some preference to use "more expensive" coins to burn because of a real or perceived higher quality.

But ETC nor ETH is used so much that its use has what so ever to do with the market price, which is PURE SPECULATION, and hence TOTALLY RANDOM.

The market price of ETH (or ETC) has nothing to do with its usage, which is essentially absent.  It is just a betting token in a casino.  And concerning betting, all odds are off.  

Note that we have exactly the same scenario with bitcoin, where the market cap that is sustained by the demand to use it as a *currency* is negligible compared to its real market cap, which is also nothing else but pure speculation, and hence totally random.

I believe that I am following you and agreeing with you all the way until you are suggesting that bitcoin is in "exactly the same scenario," which seems a bit too much of a false equivalency comparison for me.

Sure there is a lot of speculation in bitcoin that is driving bitcoin's price, yet bitcoin is a bit of a different beast from ethereum.  It's been around longer, it has quite a bit more progress on many of it's networking effects, including the fact that it is much more simple and secure in terms of what it does, and that is secure immutable decentralized transactions.

Sure it is true that many folks may not recognize distinquishing features of bitcoin and speculate on it in similar ways as ethereum, but in the end, ethereum had largely been riding on the coat-tails of bitcoin to play off it's success and to suggest that it is similar and even bitcoin 2.0, etc etc...  Well, let's get bitcoin 1.0 right first before we go off into some pie in the sky fantasy world involving what ethereum supposedly has to offer (prior to being secure).

So, anyhow, even though bitcoin has speculation, there is more there there with bitcoin, as compared with ethereum and the various other imitators and alt coins that proclaim to be bitcoin 2.0... blah blah blah.

One has to face it: crypto is not used, or almost not.  Its market cap is essentially just tokens in a zero-sum casino.  And as such, anything goes.

The usage market cap of crypto is, totally ignorant guess, probably not even sustaining a market cap of a million dollars.

Even though the relative market caps of all of the cryptos are not very much, there is still a lot of innovation going on in a lot of the crypto spaces and a lot of probable migration of value that is currently going into such crypto spaces.  Sure, there is some cutting back and forth, for example when some crypto rips off some of it's investors, then some of those investors are going to be deterred and scared away from crypto, but in the end, the space is going to continue to grow and it continues to have a lot of space for growth that becomes more and more value that is beyond mere speculation.

For example, it is very meaningful for someone to use bitcoin to transfer value from one country to another and not have to pay hardly any fees.. and some of this is underground, but very valuable.  Also, transactions in the black market are very valuable, even though some folks may claim that such value does not count, but think about how liquid bitcoin becomes as more and more people begin to use it and as some of its interface and applications become more and more user-friendly.  

[JayJuanGee]

If you think people gonna build dapps on ETC, you are delusional. This is not a currency only project, it needs leadership / developers. Or you haven't noticed how fast the attacks on the  Ethereum network have been tackled by ethereum foundation ? Nobody is going to build anything substantial on ETC because there's no development / developers, no leadership, no security with an uncertain future.

Why are you investing so much energy in attempting to pervert arguments that strive to pump ETH while denigrating ETC, when they are essentially the same?  hahahaha 

You are coming off as overinvested, rather than objective.