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Author Topic: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax  (Read 7338 times)
ArticMine
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June 22, 2016, 02:33:43 AM
 #41

...
This is gibberish. It reads like you are drunk.

Yes a 51% attacker is mining valid blocks so when he stops mining, the difficulty is not very high, so that is not the same as attacking the network with 1000X the hashrate and driving the difficulty skyhigh. In your prior message, it seemed you proposed to fork the protocol to change the difficulty using only a 51% attack. I explained that honest miners would ignore the fork. Now you seem to imply the attacker can do a 51% attack, but mine with 1000X the hashrate so they don't need to change the protocol. Well then that isn't a 51% attack, it is the 1000X attack. So you've made no point at all. But it is difficult to understand what you mean, because the above just doesn't make any sense.

So what the hell are you trying to say here?

Please stop wasting my time. Write coherently and correctly at one post. Put your entire point in one post and expend the effort to make your post coherent. This back and forth is very wasteful.

I am not wasting any more time on you. What you see is what you get.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
iamnotback
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June 22, 2016, 02:38:09 AM
 #42

I am not wasting any more time on you. What you see is what you get.

Thank you.
iCEBREAKER
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June 22, 2016, 03:12:17 AM
 #43

The "attacker" can rent 1000X more botnets than you can. That was the entire point of the "attacker's" blog article.

'NotBack you are going of the deep end a bit here.

The difficulty stratosphere attack you've described doesn't work very well against Monero if you work out actual numbers.

If you wanted to drive up the difficulty 1000x then you would need something approaching a billion typical (old, insecure, low powered) botnet nodes. If you wanted to use higher performance computers say from cloud computing you'd need 10 million or so, which is good portion of the capacity of the big cloud computing vendors. To rent that you would have to displace most or all of their other paying customers (or in the case of vendors such as Amazon or Google, their own usage). That won't happen.

Now lets say you did manage to, somehow, drive the difficulty up 1000x. You would drive the average block time from 2 minutes to 2000 minutes which is around a day and a half. The chain would not completely stall, it would continue to generate blocks at this slow rate. Those blocks would feed into the difficulty adjustment and after a few days the block time would rapidly begin to come down. It would still be slow for quite a while, but the severity would subside. Meanwhile, the blocks would be full of high-paying transactions and the block size would increase. The network would hobble along until it self-healed.

If you tried the possibly more plausible 100x version instead of the ridiculous 1000x version, then the block time only goes to 200 minutes, which hardly slower than Bitcoin on a bad day (I've personally waited over an hour for a block). Again, block size adjustment would start to kick in and clear the transaction backlog. Over time (hours to days, not years) the block time would start to come back down pretty fast anyway.

This ignores that Monero with a billion market cap would probably have a much higher baseline hash rate, meaning not only is 1000x implausible but 100x would probably be as well. And a 10x difficulty attack is just purely money for basically no purpose.

Nothing about this is specific to Monero's algorithm, which probably isn't even all that good. This sort of attack won't work against any current alts with faster base block times and difficulty adjustment algorithms that have been battle-tested not only by malicious parties but by auto-switching pools which do this form of "attack" automatically and routinely by rapidly moving massive amounts of hash rate between coins.

The attack works much better against Bitcoin-style coins (1st gen alts mostly) that start with a higher block time and that maintain a fixed difficulty for a (reasonably long) cycle. You drive up the difficulty during one cycle and the difficulty never adjusts at all until the end of the next cycle so there is an unacceptable wait for the whole cycle (2016 blocks in the case of many early alts that just copied Bitcoin).

Shebly spends more time off the deep end than on land; his distinguished history of eccentricity one of his more endearing attributes.   Smiley

But after a spanking such as smooth just administered, he won't be able to sit down for a week.   Grin

The term "codemonkey" exists to describe the end result of hyperspecialization in software (and concomitant atrophy/retardation of other disciplines).

Physicists have much more of a "full stack" understanding of the world, as software (in all of its complexities) is merely a tool in their belt, to be used in multiscale modeling from below to above.

EG, SETI@HOME/BOINC were seminal in the development of distributed computing, yet developed by astronomers and cosmologists.

Shebly may have once been a whiz at writing printer drivers and pondering esoteric nuances of type theory, but utterly fails to contextualize software within the socioeconomic matrix of Actual Organic Reality.

Thus he thinks it's legitimate to ponder attacks on $10 million market cap Monero as if they seamlessly/transparently apply to $1 billion Monero.

The (self-modulating/regulating/defeating) of Shebly's proposed attack are so far outside his narrow field of expertise, explaining them to him is like trying to explain graphic design theory to a Dunning-Kruger afflicted blind mole.

Notice he still hasn't specified how for how many blocks his attack endures.  What intellectual dishonesty!   Roll Eyes


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iamnotback
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June 22, 2016, 03:20:33 AM
 #44

iCEBREAKER, nobody cares what you have to say.

You are irrelevant. You don't code.

Do I need to link you to ArticMine getting schooled by myself the prior day about side-chains, CounterParty, and RootStock. Why should I bother to waste my time on you.

You don't understand that if you hasten the readjustment that enables other modes of attack. No matter which direction you go, the bottom line is that Monero isn't secure against an attacker with 1000X the hashrate. Period. Stop lying.
ArticMine
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June 22, 2016, 03:27:03 AM
 #45

...
ArcticMine you always drag me into the long nonsense debates and then I win at the end. Please be more respectful of my time.

Incorrect. You claim to win in the end when in fact the opposite is the case.

Edit: As demonstrated in your response here where you did nothing to support your claim:

iCEBREAKER, nobody cares what you have to say.

You are irrelevant. You don't code.

Do I need to link you to ArticMine getting schooled by myself the prior day about side-chains, CounterParty, and RootStock. Why should I bother to waste my time on you.

You don't understand that if you hasten the readjustment that enables other modes of attack. No matter which direction you go, the bottom line is that Monero isn't secure against an attacker with 1000X the hashrate. Period. Stop lying.

Where for example did I say that Monero is secure against an attack with 1000x its hash rate? Or any POW coin for that matter?

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
Spoetnik
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June 22, 2016, 03:30:48 AM
 #46

hmmmmmm

I don't suppose you same sold usual suspects recall ANOTHER previous topic
where you pulled the same damn fucking shit that went on for 100+ pages ?

I sure as fucking hell do.

You guys jacked the god damn forum and you would not STFU.

It was of course the same base concept and the exact same guys LOL

Do you remember that or what i am curious ? Should i go bump the other super topic etc ?

EDIT:
In other words many of you *as usual* do NOT possess the ability to control your behavior.
A clear sign of mental problems me thinks.

FUD first & ask questions later™
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June 22, 2016, 03:32:13 AM
 #47

...
ArcticMine you always drag me into the long nonsense debates and then I win at the end. Please be more respectful of my time.

Incorrect. You claim to win in the end when in fact the opposite is the case.

So you waste my time, forcing me to go dig up links to show where you lost the prior technical arguments. You just don't know how to quit do you. All you Monerotards do is go around stomping on every body else in the forum.

Here is where you didn't understand properly side-chains, CounterParty, RootStock and consensus algorithms:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15283868#msg15283868
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15284907#msg15284907
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15286387#msg15286387
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15286631#msg15286631
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15286694#msg15286694


I dug up the mistakes you made about Monero's block size adjustment algorithm:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13844014#msg13844014
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13844373#msg13844373
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13848626#msg13848626
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13850005#msg13850005


Please don't make me repeat those discussions. You had your chance already when you made those discussions. No remakes.
Spoetnik
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June 22, 2016, 03:34:35 AM
 #48

and yet here we go AGAIN.

seconds after i commented LOL

and like 2 years ago you all went and pulled this same shit for 100+ pages before
and in the end got no where with it but spamming the shit out of this place with it all.

the SAME guys as way back sitting here NON STOP pushing & pushing & pushing

..off-topic LOL

AGAIN  Roll Eyes



EDIT:

I asked you all nicely a few questions related to this topic etc
I had an idea and YOU IGNORED me and went off on a tangent.. derailing the topic.
So..
Meanwhile ETH rallied to $15 coin while you old hens pull your your typical bullshit.

Trying to get them ducks in lien is working to well LOL
..they run around all willy nilly "quote from Jake"

FUD first & ask questions later™
ArticMine
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June 22, 2016, 03:37:43 AM
Last edit: June 22, 2016, 03:51:39 AM by ArticMine
 #49

...
ArcticMine you always drag me into the long nonsense debates and then I win at the end. Please be more respectful of my time.

Incorrect. You claim to win in the end when in fact the opposite is the case.

So you waste my time, forcing me to go dig up links to show where you lost the prior technical arguments. You just don't know how to quit do you. All you Monerotards do is go around stomping on every body else in the forum.

Here is where you didn't understand properly side-chains, CounterParty, RootStock and consensus algorithms:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15283868#msg15283868
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15284907#msg15284907
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15286387#msg15286387
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15286631#msg15286631
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15286694#msg15286694


Wait I will dig up the mistakes you made about Monero's block size adjustment algorithm.

You know why I know you lost the argument. One word in your post.

Edit:

...


I dug up the mistakes you made about Monero's block size adjustment algorithm:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13844014#msg13844014
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13844373#msg13844373
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13848626#msg13848626
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13850005#msg13850005


Please don't make me repeat those discussions. You had your chance already when you made those discussions. No remakes.

Again I dispute your claim that I am incorrect on the matter; however you have saved me time by collecting this material in one place and for this I do thank you.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
iamnotback
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June 22, 2016, 03:40:37 AM
 #50

You know why I know you lost the argument. One word in your post.

You send iCEBREAKER here to foam at the mouth. What do you expect?

You three attacking me and not even being coherent on the technical issues.
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June 22, 2016, 03:42:49 AM
 #51

Where for example did I say that Monero is secure against an attack with 1000x its hash rate? Or any POW coin for that matter?

So why are you arguing with me then?

Didn't you realize that was what this discussion was about since the start. Did you even read the attacker's blog article that made that point which started this entire discussion.

1. You don't even know what the discussion is about.
2. smooth tries to argue that 1000X hashrate doesn't exist.
3. iCEBREAKER swallowed expanding foam.
ArticMine
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June 22, 2016, 03:54:36 AM
 #52

...

You send iCEBREAKER here to foam at the mouth. What do you expect?

You three attacking me and not even being coherent on the technical issues.

I did not send anyone to say anything. Again an accusatory allegation with no evidence to support it.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
smooth
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June 22, 2016, 03:56:48 AM
 #53

Please stop trying to pretend that Monero's measily hashrate is secure! You are both lying.

Huh? Secure against ordinary 51% attacks and against 1000x attacks are two different things. 51% is possible. It isn't cheap or easy, but possible for someone with significant resources.

Monero's hash rate is probably >1/1000 of Bitcoin when adjusted to equivalent energy. It is quite secure against 1000x attacks, especially considering they are not entirely effective as they were against some gen 1 alts. Algorithmically it is reasonably secure against 100x difficulty spike attacks (as are most other current alts such as Dash), though somewhat better than those that don't have a variable blocksize (again such as Dash) to absorb a transaction backlog.
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June 22, 2016, 04:00:38 AM
 #54

...

You send iCEBREAKER here to foam at the mouth. What do you expect?

You three attacking me and not even being coherent on the technical issues.

I did not send anyone to say anything. Again an accusatory allegation with no evidence to support it.

It is self-evident that Monerotards attack in droves.

If you don't like being associated with that foul mouth, then say so. Otherwise, by self-evident association of how you Monerotards popup together in the same attacks on everyone, I'll presume the self-evident association.

How about  looking at it from my side?

How do you think it feels to be on my side and being attacked? And you not even knowing what the discussion was about. iCEBREAKER not even knowing enough about the tech and just hurling his foul mouth. And smooth pretending that China can't produce 100 - 1000X Monero's hashrate for burst periods of time. I suppose smooth has high security clearance and has access to all the data about the supercomputers that China has. And smooth knows who all the whales are in Bitcoin and what access they have to computing power. Etc... Smooth is omniscient, did you know that!
ArticMine
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June 22, 2016, 04:05:29 AM
 #55

...
It is self-evident that Monerotards attack in droves.

If you don't like being associated with that foul mouth, then say so.

You made an allegation that you cannot support. Please do not try to justify it with insults or by repeating the allegation.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
smooth
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June 22, 2016, 04:05:48 AM
 #56

...

You send iCEBREAKER here to foam at the mouth. What do you expect?

You three attacking me and not even being coherent on the technical issues.

I did not send anyone to say anything. Again an accusatory allegation with no evidence to support it.

It is self-evident that Monerotards attack in droves.

If you don't like being associated with that foul mouth, then say so. Otherwise, by self-evident association of how you Monerotards popup together in the same attacks on everyone, I'll presume the self-evident association.

How about  looking at it from my side?

How do you think it feels to be on my side and being attacked? And you not even knowing what the discussion was about. iCEBREAKER not even knowing enough about the tech and just hurling his foul mouth. And smooth pretending that China can't produce 100 - 1000X Monero's hashrate for short periods of time.

If you are talking about me, I haven't even been online for most of the past day. I dropped in and posted a few times. Nothing to do with anyone else. Many of the other posts I'm not even reading.

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June 22, 2016, 04:07:45 AM
 #57

...
It is self-evident that Monerotards attack in droves.

If you don't like being associated with that foul mouth, then say so.

You made an allegation that you cannot support. Please do not try to justify it with insults or by repeating the allegation.

You lose the technical arguments and now you try to argue for victory on a technicality when you know damn well why I am pissed off.

Grow some people skills. Treat people like shit and waste their time and attack in droves and you will not be liked. Period.


Now that you 3 guys have wasted several hours of my day. May I bill you $500 for my lost time? Of course not. But I hope you understand how wasteful this is.


No one dare speak up about Monero, lest they lose their entire income due to endless attacks.
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June 22, 2016, 04:12:26 AM
Last edit: June 22, 2016, 03:24:25 PM by iamnotback
 #58

Monero's hash rate is probably >1/1000 of Bitcoin when adjusted to equivalent energy. It is quite secure against 1000x attacks, especially considering they are not entirely effective as they were against some gen 1 alts. Algorithmically it is reasonably secure against 100x difficulty spike attacks (as are most other current alts such as Dash), though somewhat better than those that don't have a variable blocksize (again such as Dash) to absorb a transaction backlog.

That isn't saying much when BitCON is only using 1/1000th of the world's electricity.

So Monero uses 1 millionth of the world's electricity. Whoop–de–do.


Edit: and downthread even ArticMine admits Monero is likely to lose 1/10th of its hashrate as block rewards decline to the tail emission, so that will be 1/10th of a millionth. And remember you and I were originally the only (vocal) guys who wanted a tail emission and rest of the Monero community didn't and Monero didn't have a tail emission before they realized we were correct.
ArticMine
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June 22, 2016, 04:16:01 AM
 #59

...

You lose the technical arguments
and now you try to argue for victory on a technicality when you know damn well why I am pissed off.

Grow some people skills. Treat people like shit and waste their time and attack in droves and you will not be liked. Period.


Now that you 3 guys have wasted several hours of my day. May I bill you $500 for my lost time? Of course not. But I hope you understand how wasteful this is.


No one dare speak up about Monero, lest they lose their entire income due to endless attacks.

Again another unsubstantiated claim.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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June 22, 2016, 04:54:05 AM
 #60

You idiots pulled this same exact shit for 139 pages to be exact before on the same fucking topic

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789978.2760

It is so bad it's archived and listed as DELETE

You blow-hard's are mouthy spammy morons who THINK they are smart.
and never shut the fuck up.

..always about Monero Roll Eyes



look at page 99 of 139 people

same mouthy douche bags and same arguments..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789978.msg9079524#msg9079524



EDIT:

And i quote..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789978.msg9079679#msg9079679

Quote
We had this discussion already a month or two ago. I think we've had this discussion more than once.

TheFascistMind vs smooth

ding ding ding round 140,000 of techno rammble spammtard Morono bullshit

..again  Roll Eyes

FUD first & ask questions later™
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