The Blocksize Debate & Concerns

[franky1]

Well if you put it like that, maybe. The main website does talk about block size limit increase, but to my knowledge its currently debated.

https://bitcoincore.org/en/2015/12/23/capacity-increases-faq/

Many engineers and academics have come out and said that blocksize increase is not feasable. But we need more research on this.

firstly that was the golden promise of december 2015.. but in recent months that has been backtracked. even carlton has shown that lukejr and core and blockstream are pretending it was never a guarantee.

anyway, those academics..

lol "2mb is bad" right??
but 2.8 good?
but 2.8 good?
but 2.7 good?
but 2.7 good?
but 2.8 good?

here ill give you some info..
people livestream their online gaming sessions while in a VOIP with their friends and also narrating to viewers of the livestream and i dont hear complaints from youtube or twitch or livestream that the internet isnt good enough for uploads

but here goes.. doomsday bottom of the line internet users..

0.5mbit upload = 37.5mBYTE per 10 minutes.
so even at a minimum. a low level node can have a couple connections without issue.
but we all know those who want to be full dedicated nodes will have better internet than the minimum.

as for the validation processing..
bitcoin works fine on a v1 raspberry Pi.. guess what raspberry Pi has evolved.. so even using raspberry Pi as a baseline benchmark, it can cope.
even with the stuff like libsecp256k1 makes the baseline rasberry Pi happy.
but if having the other stuff aswell as the blocklimit all combined into 0.13.. then its all good

[franky1]

But I just see that there are many dumb people in the world that are as intelligent as a stone, but i hope that bitcoin and other decentralized projects will teach people to be more familiar with open source software and digital stuff.

the challenge bitcoin "wallets" have is the "give it to your grandma and see if she calls you all hours of the day" test
now thats how simple bitcoin needs to be.

EG LN is coming soon. so making a multisig really does need to become like childsplay. or more precise, grannies 'bridge' play..
telling someone they need to log into a forum and ask a community for support. is not something that should be advertised as what makes bitcoin great.

bitcoin wallet providers (offline ones of course) need to up their game otherwise people wont waste a couple days searching forums. they would rather sign up to crap like exchanges to "manage" the funds... far before signing up to a forum

[RealBitcoin]

But I just see that there are many dumb people in the world that are as intelligent as a stone, but i hope that bitcoin and other decentralized projects will teach people to be more familiar with open source software and digital stuff.

the challenge bitcoin "wallets" have is the "give it to your grandma and see if she calls you all hours of the day" test
now thats how simple bitcoin needs to be.

EG LN is coming soon. so making a multisig really does need to become like childsplay. or more precise, grannies 'bridge' play..

telling someone they need to log into a forum and ask a community for support. is not something that should be advertised as what makes bitcoin great.

bitcoin wallet providers (offline ones of course) need to up thir game otherwise people wont aste a couple days searching forums. they would rather sign up to crap like exchanges to "manage" the funds... far before a forum

Let's be honest, the old people will never jump 100% into new tech, it just doesnt work that way.

Only the young people have a chance to learn something completely new and use it in their lives.

I didnt seen any old people using smartphones, heck most of them dont even have phones.

Technology just progresses too fast for people to keep up with.

However the modern PC has been around for 30 years, so that should not be a very hard step to take.


The wallets are simple, they only have buttons, menus and texboxes, who is so dumb that cant figure that out?

You dont need the console, nor multisig for the average user. They just want to send and receive money.

Most of these smart contracts and advanced features will only be used by 1-2% of users, the rest of them will stay basic.

[franky1]

You dont need the console, nor multisig for the average user. They just want to send and receive money.
Most of these smart contracts and advanced features will only be used by 1-2% of users, the rest of them will stay basic.

atleast your in agreement that LN wont be a big deal and that not everyone will need or have to use it, but if it was to be used widely then it needs to become simple.
after all it took 30 years for computers to become simplified down from needing a command prompt. to being just a swipe of a finger.

bitcoin is not yet in the same simplicity stage as swiping a screen. and that is why people will be relying on 3rd parties too much. because their GUI is better than the full desktop locally stored privkey/seed versions

[Carlton Banks]

How many times today are we going to have to correct something you wrote an entire paragraph about, correctly?


PoW is not the only mechanism.

You haven’t corrected me on anything, not for lack of trying. PoW is the mechanism by which miners reach consensus on the correct version of the chain, full stop.

There are direct and indirect economic forces that inform, punish, or award these choices, as I have described upthread.

You trolling fuck, you know entirely well that I'm separating out PoW from economic forces as multiple mechnanisms exactly what you're describing when you say "indirect economic forces". Those are mechanisms too. And they're the same mechanisms that have stopped your 2MB2MB2MB bullshit.

As for the rest of your troll replies, pfffffffff. You're just perusing the exact bent logic you've used already, or simply putting heavily exaggerated words in my mouth. Trolling, whichever way you try to dice it.

If anyone was trolled today, it was the miners who made a “grand consensus” agreement with “individuals” in Hong Kong. I bet they feel quite foolish today, they made an effort at a good faith compromise… only, months later, these “individuals” have spit in their faces, some via comment, some via lack thereof. I’d be reconsidering the wisdom of putting my future in the hands of these guys right about now.

Only if they're perusing logic, tho.

You're the troll supreme: arguing that black is white, and simultaneously black. "PoW is the only mechanism....... uh, except all the other ones. It's the only one! As well as the others! IT'S THE ONLY MECHANISM! oh, but others exist too"

[Carlton Banks]

meanwhile in a totally different subject, carlton flips his mindset for one moment to make the main point i have been saying for years

Exactly, the last thing Bitcoin needs is even more self-appointed centres of the universe We've got multiple organisations making out like they're "Bitcoin officials" already

i think carlton needs to be called "flip flop".. because he likes to flip around words.. but when he tries defending blockstream dominance.. he flops

ROFLMAO Franky, you're now researching: me


You're just one such example of someone claiming to represent the "real" Bitcoin, Franky. But you're right of course: Core is the closest thing there is to official Bitcoin. In fact, IT IS THE OFFICAL BITCOIN YOU MORON. Remember, you and your buddies want that to change so the system is in permanent conflict?


Because there is only one set of consensus rules in the client, and you and your big banking buddies desperately want those rules to change, because your money system is in danger of losing alot of important markets (contraband, remittance, offshore banking etc). I mean, does anyone out there seriously expect the most well established and profitable form of gangsterism not to fight back against it's new competitor? Well, Franky and his friends (read: sockpuppets) are that fightback.

[franky1]

Because there is only one set of consensus rules in the client, and you and your big banking buddies desperately want those rules to change, because your money system is in danger of losing alot of important markets (contraband, remittance, offshore banking etc).

your words apply to you and your buddies. you are either well aware of it and trying to distract people from seeing it too with your bait and switch tactics.. or your too devoted to look beyond your blind faith of corporate dominance

please ask gmaxwell what are the terms and conditions of releasing the next tranche of FIAT funding

have a nice day

[Carlton Banks]

You dont need the console, nor multisig for the average user. They just want to send and receive money.
Most of these smart contracts and advanced features will only be used by 1-2% of users, the rest of them will stay basic.

atleast your in agreement that LN wont be a big deal and that not everyone will need or have to use it, but if it was to be used widely then it needs to become simple.
after all it took 30 years for computers to become simplified down from needing a command prompt. to being just a swipe of a finger.

LN handles all the payment channels without user intervention, to the lay user a transaction will look even simpler than today, as any change amounts or channel activity won't be directly exposed unless the user really wants to look, it's not going to make sense to an uninformed observer. Do you think that might be why you're so capable of understanding it, Franky? The uninformed part?

[Carlton Banks]

Because there is only one set of consensus rules in the client, and you and your big banking buddies desperately want those rules to change, because your money system is in danger of losing alot of important markets (contraband, remittance, offshore banking etc).

your words apply to you and your buddies. you are either well aware of it and trying to distract people from seeing it too with your bait and switch tactics.. or your too devoted to look beyond your blind faith of corporate dominance

Why not ask gmaxwell yourself about plans to use Schnorr signatures, MAST scripts (and god knows how many other efforts he leads in crypto-coin research) to improve privacy and scalability even further? If Greg or Lukejr or Pieter Wuille or any of these other bete noires of yours are such bankster collborators, how come everything they're doing looks like cutting edge privacy work/carefully engineered network scaling to every other expert in the field? Even to Gavin Andresen? Oh no, that's right, pre-eminient world renowned cryptography and network software engineer Franky1 doesn't agree, because PwC funding?



Incidentally Franky, how does this happen, explain:

Franky1 Re: The Blocksize Debate & Concerns
Today at 06:48:17 AM



Franky1 Re: The Blocksize Debate & Concerns
Today at 09:22:36 AM




How come you're already up and out of bed? I thought you were "just an ordinary English bloke"? Let's be honest (or at least realistic), one of the other Frankys with access to the Franky1 account took the reins while the other Franky gets a little rest. Shall I call you Franky2? lol

[franky1]

seems that your over use of "payment channels" and "change amounts" goes to show you lack understanding of LN.

here is a simple lesson

2 nodes independently create a pub/priv keypair.
they then find each other to tell each other, only the public keys. they create a multisig address using them public keys and send that multisig address to each other to make sure they both calculated the keys to the same multisig properly.

then both users decide how much they want to "lock in" to the multisig by simply making an ONCHAIN transaction each to that multisig address.
this then becomes a combined pot of funds

then privately(offchain) they make a new transaction using the multisig funds to pay out what they owe eachother. once the values are agreed they both sign it and both keep a copy privately (not transmitted to the public blockchain)

which is why i laughed when you said "change amounts". because its not "change", its more the case of withdrawal, or just payment.

then on different occasions they can just renegotiate who owes what and make a new transaction to pay out what they owe eachother, once agreed its signed and the previously private held transaction is dropped and this new tx is held as the most current one.

in short if you take away all the buzzwords.. its simply automated escrow.

[Carlton Banks]

in short if you take away all the buzzwords.. its simply automated escrow.

Yep. It was you that attempting to suggest otherwise when you claimed ordinary users don't/can't use multi-sig: you've (that is, Franky 2, to be precise ) just spent another rambling paragraph explaining how your own rhetoric about LN being too complicated for normal users is BS. Ordinary users don't need to know how to use multi sig when the automated escrow takes care of it for them, huh?


I like your new, entirely different way of punctuating and arranging your sentences in posts, it's almost like you're a different "Franky". lol

[Carlton Banks]

Can you explain Franky2, er, I mean Franky1, how you managed to go to bed after 6:48am GMT, and then started posting again at 9:28 am GMT?


Did you get your full night's sleep, get up, do your 16 hour working day on a working day of the week (because you're just a regular English fella, remember?), then get on bitcointalk to post, all in less than 3 hours? hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. hmmmmm.

[franky1]

i know you have not left your basement in a while. but real people do this thing called "travel"..
you should try it.
you know go to different timezones, meet new people.
you might actually enjoy it..

... wait
you cant buy plane tickets with monero.. sorry i forgot.. i apologize for your lack of ability to travel due to the uselessness of your altcoin fascination.
but atleast i answered my own query about how you naively think people are stuck to a timezone they were born into.

but should you one day find a method to transfer your monero into a way to buy a plane ticket. i recommend going to a country with a bit of culture. it will help expand your mind beyond the small narrow experience you have currently had in that small corner of the world you live in.

as for my grammar, yea its called being an adult. some times i drink alcohol.
you will hopefully experience that in a couple years.

but nice try with your failed insults. its very much a shame that the only replies you can muster are not technical or logical or even factual.

but here is a smart idea.
how about address the topic properly. without a single insult. you might surprise yourself and actually have something valid to say for once.

anyway goodluck with your monero

[Carlton Banks]

Which means you've been posting since yesterday for ~19 hours straight!? hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Do you ever get any sleep? And if we are to believe your "different time zone right now" story, that puts you 9-10 hours ahead of GMT.... somewhere in South-East Asia?!?!? You speak South East Asian languages, then, huh Franky(s)? Come on, lie to me lol

Or are you an Australian posing as a Brit? Kiwi?

[franky1]

lol

so if im in asia i have to speak asian?? or if im in australia i cant be a brit..

you are funny.

but its now become obvious you have run out of concerns about the blocksize debate. so have a nice day

now back to the topic at hand.

seeing as segwit needs 95% consensus. it might aswell be during this upgrade opportunity that the blocksize code is also added.. but as i said before having it only activate when safe to do so. EG when pools decide they can make such blocks and also when they are secure in the knowledge that there is enough users who have upgraded to 0.13 to ensure the blocks wont get rejected/orphaned.

[Lauda]

Interesting conclusion by Carlton that franky1 is either a superhuman or there's franky2. However, the thread went sideways. Time to get back to some relevant input.

Let's be honest, the old people will never jump 100% into new tech, it just doesnt work that way. Only the young people have a chance to learn something completely new and use it in their lives.

This is correct for the majority of old people.

I didnt seen any old people using smartphones, heck most of them dont even have phones.

It is quite rare that older people are 'decent' with smartphones.

Technology just progresses too fast for people to keep up with. However the modern PC has been around for 30 years, so that should not be a very hard step to take.

That is the case, especially for people who are not involved in IT. I'd say that modern computing has become very simplified for simple tasks and inexperienced users.

The wallets are simple, they only have buttons, menus and texboxes, who is so dumb that cant figure that out?

Maybe the design could be 'modernized', but aside from that I'd say that Bitcoin Core is a pretty simple wallet. Of course it has some advanced features, but regular users don't need to use those (the same applies for other wallets). If I were to recommend a wallet to someone that I know right now (who isn't tech-savy), I'd definitely take them on a route with SPV wallets first. Telling someone that they have to wait XX hours (for synchronization) and spend a lot of bandwidth and storage just to start using Bitcoin might turn them off.

[Carlton Banks]

lol

so if im in asia i have to speak asian?? or if im in australia i cant be a brit..

you are funny.

but its now become obvious you have run out of concerns about the blocksize debate. so have a nice day

So how is it that you managed to stay awake from 16:24 GMT on June 27th, all the way to 10:59 GMT today? What sort of superhuman stays up posting multiple times per hour for over 18 hours? I get the feeling that We've Been Franked!!! yet again.

seeing as segwit needs 95% consensus. it might aswell be during this upgrade opportunity that the blocksize code is also added.. but as i said before having it only activate when safe to do so.

Franky, code your ideas up and make your own coin. Or submit them to the Bitcoin github. If your ideas are sssssso amazing, you'll get everyone supporting you and using your vision for cryptocurrency, right? But I predict you'll never do anything in the real Bitcoin world, let alone attempt to prove your nonsense. You've got one massive mouth and you never take any kind of action, about anything. Do something. Anything.

[franky1]

code your ideas up and make your own coin. Or submit them to the Bitcoin github.

even you want to pretend that anything that interacts with bitcoins genesis and block data must be an altcoin if its not part of bitcoins github.
your last post is very clear on that along with your general rhetoric since last year

last year someone coded up an idea.. plopped it on bitcoins github.. they got kicked to the curb and then called an altcoin because they released it independently
this year someone coded up an idea.. plopped it on bitcoins github.. they got kicked to the curb and then called an altcoin because they released it independently
this year someone coded up an idea.. plopped it on bitcoins github.. they got kicked to the curb and then called an altcoin because they released it independently

then miners got together and organized some meetups.. not with random individuals ofcourse but with the main players to try and get some commitments out of them because obvious idea's were being slated as altcoins and corporate takeovers rather than logical discussions about bitcoins next direction..
but even after SEVERAL face to face discussions, hand shakes and signed agreements..
it got backtracked and said they cant even guarantee it.

we both know the only direction blockstream want to take bitcoin, if you really think that after so many attempts already to get a blocksize increase have failed, that suddenly something is going to change.. then you are just trying to poke the bear with the fake belief of bitcoin independence

remember every single big bitcoin player that has done exactly that has been pushed aside

i look forward to you start the buzzword campaign about bitcoinLjr being an altcoin in the next couple months. and finally start calling him a corporate sellout, as always

by the way can i get a timecheck please, sorry i was out and about for a few hours

[Carlton Banks]

Out and about? "You" have been awake, posting regularly for over 24 hours now, lol. How do you handle this, multiple power-naps in your deskchair?

[franky1]

Out and about? "You" have been awake, posting regularly for over 24 hours now, lol. How do you handle this, multiple power-naps in your deskchair?

you must be a toddler or an old man if sleep is your biggest concern.
but may i ask.
in a couple months will you be saying Luke Jrs release v0.13swhf(segwit+hardfork) is a altcoin and he should be thrown to the wolves?