European/Germany Wire Transfers

[hasquestion]

I live in the US (citizen) but would like to transfer USD between Bitcoin Exchanges using a bank outside the US.

I am wondering about asking my friend in Germany to act as a middle-man for me: so I would do a SEPA/Wire Transfer with my USD to his standard consumer bank account and then he would initiate a SEPA/Wire Transfer to send my USD to my final destination.

I went to see both HSBC and Chase today to try to open an offshore or expat account(as recommended elsewhere on BitcoinTalk). I told HSBC it was for currency exchange, but after they kept asking, I told them it was for BitCoins, at which point they told me "sir, that is an `unacceptable activity`, you must go now". "JP Morgan Chase" is a global financial institution, however "Chase" only operates within the US, though the Advisor at Chase really tried to help me even after I told her it was for Bitcoins. Making that more frustrating, exactly while I was doing all this, the market tanked and I lost ~US$1000, so I need to make up for that somehow.


I can NOT figure out how to create an offshore bank account (though many people in US have them for legit/tax reasons). I have tried looking online for Banks outside the US that will provide wire transfer services for me(such as in Malta), but I can NOT find any. I trust my friend more anyway.


Specifically I am wondering,
1. legally: sending my friend money should be just like buying his car or paying him to build a fence for me. Where he sends it is then his business, whereas MoneyPolo, etc... have a different legal status(financial services instead of private individual) and regulatory requirements and a business to maintain. Illegal money laundering is to support crime(Specified Unlawful Activities), while I am just an engineer doing this with my paycheck/savings.
2. online banking: in Germany, does online banking normally provide the details to receive a SEPA/Wire Transfer (beneficiary/recipient BIC, IBAN, SWIFT)? can it initiate an outgoing SEPA/Wire Transfer? does it usually require visiting the bank branch to setup or for each transfer?   I envision him just having to click a few buttons on a web site.
3. SEPA transfer: some bank web sites claim that SEPA transfers can send/receive USD.
4. USD/Euro: do normal bank accounts in Germany store both USD and Euros (or Pounds or Marks or other national currencies)? I want to get USD to my destination without loosing value to convert to Euros and back to USD.
5. setup: probably just need him to give me a copy of his Photo ID and Proof of Residency (to give to Bitcoin Exchanges).
6. reporting: In US, banks report transfers >=$10,000 to the government (which is triggered by many BitCoin transfers and all sorts of other routine activity the government doesn't care about, those reports are normally ignored). Is there similar reporting in Germany? I may be moving US$10-20,000 a few times a week. What about tax reporting? Are there taxes/fees for this beyond normal SEPA/Wire transfer fees??
7. wire transfer fees: I know SEPA transfers cost a few Euros or less. What about Wire Transfer fees in Europe? His bank would subtract any incoming and outgoing fees from the amount(so it costs him nothing)?  I would prefer being able to do multiple transfers in one day, instead of one/big transfer. I can move any profit to my account as BTC$ (and sell some of it for USD$ under my name).

I would appreciate any advice or links to more information.

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[Serpens66]

Why do you need a middleman? Can't you just withdraw and deposit from your own bank account?

I live in germany and I would like to withdraw and deposit USD from bitcoin exchanges. But I know no bank that is able to handle USD (maybe there are some, but I did not find them yet)
So I guess it will be very difficult for you to find such a bank.

[hasquestion]

To confirm, consumer banks in Germany don't support USD? 

At least prior to the Euro, I assumed banks would have to support several national currencies (pounds, marks, USD, etc...) and that would have continued after the Euro?

The Bitcoin exchange I want to wire USD to will not accept wires from US banks or from other Bitcoin exchanges.

[Serpens66]

To confirm, consumer banks in Germany don't support USD? 

At least prior to the Euro, I assumed banks would have to support several national currencies (pounds, marks, USD, etc...) and that would have continued after the Euro?

The Bitcoin exchange I want to wire USD to will not accept wires from US banks or from other Bitcoin exchanges.

I don't know a bank, that supports several currencies =/ .. there might be some that support USD, but most banks just convert USD to EUR.
But if you have a friend in germany, how about asking this questions to him?

[European Central Bank]

Being american is not a very sexy thing to be if you're trying to open anything with foreign banks. Most of them are gonna tell you to go away because you're too much trouble.

Which exchanges do you wanna transfer between? Have you looked into tether?

[hasquestion]

I want to transfer USD into BTC-e exchange.

Would Tether help?

Yes foreign banks might not work for me directly, that's why I was going to ask a friend.

There are some bank services for `expats`, people who move around the world for work (and get paid/have to pay bills in different currencies).


Any info about banks in SE Asia?  I have another friend who used to live in Germany but now lives in SE Asia. Maybe he could help?    He could be using an expat service or a local bank, or maybe a German bank remotely, I don't know.

I didn't want to ask either of them unless it seemed possible.

[European Central Bank]

Isn't EUR or anything else gonna be just as painful as USD for btc-e? They use a ton of weird third party payment processors. I don't think the currency's gonna make much difference.

What about perfectmoney? You can pay into btc-e with that and you can pay into perfectmoney in a variety of ways. There's also btc-e vouchers but you don't seem to hear too much about them these days.

Tether's a bitfinex/poloniex thing so I guess it won't be much use for you.

[Serpens66]

I want to transfer USD into BTC-e exchange.

Did you ever argued with the support of btc-e? You won't be able to deposit from a bank account that is not in your name.
And after depositing the money will be on hold until you prove your identity which is painful with a support that only writes google-translate english and is not able to understand more complex sentences in english.
And of course it is very expensive, btc-e charges high fees for nearly everything...

But as already mentioned, you can try perfectmoney or OKPAY. 
I do deposit Euros at btc-e via OKPAY, because you don't have to verify at btc-e if you use a verified OKPAY account to deposit.

[hasquestion]

Yep, I have dealt with BTC-e's service for verification. I would just get my friend to go through it or more likely do it for them.


My question is can I SEPA/wire USD to a friend outside the US and then he wire that USD to a BTC-e account in his name? (I would setup and have password and be the one using the BTC-e account)


OKPAY will not service US based customers after 2013. PerfectMoney doesn't include US in list of countries on their registration form, so I assume they won't service US either.

PerfectMoney's fee schedule for incoming wire deposits looks great(https://perfectmoney.is/fees.html).

But BTC-e says it charges 6.5% for USD deposits from PerfectMoney (https://btc-e.com/profile#funds/deposit/usd)   is that correct?  Then it won't work for me.

[European Central Bank]

But BTC-e says it charges 6.5% for USD deposits from PerfectMoney (https://btc-e.com/profile#funds/deposit/usd)   is that correct?  Then it won't work for me.

Ah, I didn't realise OKpay didn't like americans either. I can well believe that percentage to deposit on there. Some of their fees are pretty crazy.

Why btc-e only? Is it for arbitrage?

[hasquestion]

Yes for arbitrage.

Do you know if BTC-e really charges 1% for incoming wire transfers? 

Still worth it if it does, but that's pretty unreasonable.


As for SEPA/wiring money through my friend in Germany or SE Asia, would that work? I don't know about government reporting/law enforcement issues that could happen in Germany. In SE Asia, I assume that wouldn't be an issue.   In US, banks report >=$10,000 transfers to government, does something similar happen in Germany, Europe or SE Asia? Would there be any special tax reporting requirements??

I'm trying to anticipate any issues, so I don't cause my friends any problem and to keep everything simple for them so its not such a big deal to ask them several times a week to wire money around.

Sounds like typical bank accounts in Germany can only do EUR, so wiring money to my friend in Germany would result in converting entire USD amount to EUR and then EUR to USD (at Bank's chosen conversion rate) which could get expensive.

[European Central Bank]

If you start picking your nose btc-e charges a fee for it so 1% sounds about right. The agony of getting usd on there is pretty much why the price is always lower otherwise it's free money and everyone would be doing it.

[hasquestion]

I am wondering about reporting issues with Wire Transfers in Europe or SE Asia?  (like the >=$10,000 report to government for transfers in US)

Are there other issues my friends could have??

[European Central Bank]

Well, in France you're not allowed to spend more than 1000 euros in cash for a single transaction any more, but I think that's for businesses, so I think it's a given that you'll have to report big transfers in the EU. I don't think they're gonna care why so long as some reason is supplied. Or you could break it up into smaller ones. In Germany you gotta fill in a form if it's over 12-15000 euros or something going in or out.