Bustabit crowd sale! [Refunded]

[RHavar]

As most of you here know, bustabit is one of the most popular bitcoin gambling sites (probably second only to primedice).  Well I'm happy to announce that it is going up for crowd sale! To avoid repeating myself too much here, I'll just post the link to the full details are here:

https://www.bustabit.com/crowdsale


Comments, criticisms and questions are welcome!

[1714048128]

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[trafficolaa]

I have a question regarding that token these will be trade-able right after crowd sale or these will will be similar to an invest which we make into casino bankroll, you have any plan to run social media, signature bounties to catch attention of other people.

[JasonXG]

Its a pity that I dont have much bitcoin left right now else this would have been a viable investment. Raising 3000btc wow that's a lot of money.

[NLNico]

Looks good.

Only thing I wouldn't do is that "gambling loan platform". Gamblers and loans just don't go well together (I actually have been actively loaning on seals in '13 to only very specific people whose identity I knew, but still it's a losing game.) As website I wouldn't actively participate in that. But I can imagine it's just 1 of the many ideas you have.

Not sure if I would personally invest, I always have a bit of a short-term vision when it comes to putting my money into something. But long-term it looks interesting.

Good luck.

[RHavar]

I have a question regarding that token these will be trade-able right after crowd sale or these will will be similar to an invest which we make into casino bankroll, you have any plan to run social media, signature bounties to catch attention of other people.

Yeah, pretty soon after the crowd-sale you'll be able to transfer and/or sell tokens to other users. Ideally the tokens will be withdrawal-able in the form of OpenAssets tokens (i.e. so you can use a colored coin wallet to manage them) but unless someone builds a secondary market for OpenAssets there's not really much point

Looks good.

Only thing I wouldn't do is that "gambling loan platform". Gamblers and loans just don't go well together (I actually have been actively loaning on seals in '13 to only very specific people whose identity I knew, but still it's a losing game.) As website I wouldn't actively participate in that. But I can imagine it's just 1 of the many ideas you have.

The site itself is definitely not going to loan money -- but like you, people *already* are doing lots of gambling loans. So instead of sending them money and hoping they follow the conditions of the loan, I was planning on building proper support for some of the common loan types. e.g. So you can send someone X BTC loan, and they need to repay Y BTC in loan. Until the loan is repaid, they can not withdraw and their profile shows they have an outstanding loan.

So the site itself won't take any risk, just give people better tools to do what they're already doing

[NLNico]

I understand, but I think just offering that platform is already bad, it encourages more loans (and therefor scams.) Even on just BTCJam I see very frequently people who are overall down and they even have extra tools like feedback, social media links, IDs, etc. But up to you Seals perspective that time (and most sites perspective) was just "not our business, your own risk", I think that's better (even though you will obviously have a similar disclaimer.)


Anyway, don't want to only focus on that 1 specific idea. Like I said, I very much like all the other plans

[deponzit]

If you'll be withdrawing your own funds from the bankroll to replace them with crowd funded coins, wouldn't that effectively erase your incentives not to cheat? Since you know the seed you could look ahead at the games to come and slowly draw from the bankroll whenever you please.

[joksim299]

Dont go for Montenegro licence

[BetKing.io]

Hi Ryan

Can you give us some information on the legality of this and in what country?

I was going to do the same thing with BetKing.io months back but it would have actually been illegal to do so in the UK.

The only way around it would be taking names, Id and declaring all investors to the tax man.

Even the BetterBets model of Rubies would be illegal in the UK.

There was the case where Erik Voorhees sold shares in SatoshiDice which he got fined for in the US. Though the fine was nothing compared to how much he made on SD:)

Don't see this is an attack or anything. I am genuinely curious since it seems there was no way I could do a crowdfunded investment (the bankroll investment is actually fine). I also enquired about the MyCelium model and again, that's a no in the UK.

Is it just a case that no one in crypto cares and is willing to just accept a fine if they ever get taken to court over it?

[RHavar]

If you'll be withdrawing your own funds from the bankroll to replace them with crowd funded coins, wouldn't that effectively erase your incentives not to cheat? Since you know the seed you could look ahead at the games to come and slowly draw from the bankroll whenever you please.

Yeah, for all intents and purposes investors will be totally at my mercy

Dont go for Montenegro licence

Any reason why?

[RHavar]

Hi Ryan

Can you give us some information on the legality of this and in what country?

I've intentionally tried to keep it as informal-ish as possible, and try avoid it being a clear security.  The actual company I run is incorporated in Costa Rica, but there it's more just a grey zone where a lot of stuff is legal by the fact it's not illegal. I'm offering a stake in the (net) liquid assets, as opposed to the company it itself, but my real primary goal here is just to not misrepresent anything or piss anyone off.


As I no longer live in the United States (nor ever was a citizen), I don't believe I fall under the jurisdiction of the SEC or what not.

[RHavar]

I was going to do the same thing with BetKing.io months back but it would have actually been illegal to do so in the UK.

What about the current bankroll investing you have? And if that's legal, what if you pay company expenses out of the bankroll? And if that's legal, what if you stop accepting new investors? And if that's legal, what if you allow people to transfer their bankroll stake to other people?  And if that's legal, it's pretty much the same as bustabit's crowd fund  

[gogodr]

I'll invest. Im currently investing into any casino or bankroll for casino project I can find. These will be the true winners when all the dust settles. I'm in.

[BetKing.io]

I was going to do the same thing with BetKing.io months back but it would have actually been illegal to do so in the UK.

What about the current bankroll investing you have? And if that's legal, what if you pay company expenses out of the bankroll? And if that's legal, what if you stop accepting new investors? And if that's legal, what if you allow people to transfer their bankroll stake to other people?  And if that's legal, it's pretty much the same as bustabit's crowd fund  

As mentioned the current bankroll is legal.
I don't pay expenses out of that.

I agree that it's pretty much all the same thing though and these laws are ridiculous and only hinder innovation. But I like living in the UK

I'll speak again with lawyer and see if the way you are doing it is something I could do.

Thanks and good luck

[joksim299]

If you'll be withdrawing your own funds from the bankroll to replace them with crowd funded coins, wouldn't that effectively erase your incentives not to cheat? Since you know the seed you could look ahead at the games to come and slowly draw from the bankroll whenever you please.

Yeah, for all intents and purposes investors will be totally at my mercy

Dont go for Montenegro licence

Any reason why?

Its $10000 month and is not trustworthy to players

[katerniko1]

this sounds great ill buy some tokens tomorrow
this is nice idea you got up! lets see this tokens gets sold in 14 days!
regards.
-Katerniko1

[shanem]

I am interested in this crowd sale. Will there be any platform where people can trade these tokens freely?
I hope these tokens can be like Ethereum where there is a wallet and exchanges.

[RHavar]

I am interested in this crowd sale. Will there be any platform where people can trade these tokens freely?
I hope these tokens can be like Ethereum where there is a wallet and exchanges.

Yeah, I'll build a simple exchange into bustabit in order to buy/sell/transfer tokens. If there's a half-decent OpenAssets exchange, I'll allow people to withdraw the tokens as OpenAssets where you do can trade them there too

[dogedice.me]

Hi Ryan

Can you give us some information on the legality of this and in what country?

I've intentionally tried to keep it as informal-ish as possible, and try avoid it being a clear security.  The actual company I run is incorporated in Costa Rica, but there it's more just a grey zone where a lot of stuff is legal by the fact it's not illegal. I'm offering a stake in the (net) liquid assets, as opposed to the company it itself, but my real primary goal here is just to not misrepresent anything or piss anyone off.


As I no longer live in the United States (nor ever was a citizen), I don't believe I fall under the jurisdiction of the SEC or what not.

Actually you are That's the biggest problem I'm trying to fight. You don't have to be a US citizen to fall under US law. Any US player would be sufficient to start a case against you from the US Government for breaking several US laws.

To solve it you need to do full AML\KYC compliance, that's why bitstarz and all other softswiss's white lables do this even having the real gambling license, which actually costs a lot from $100k to $500k on Malta.

Regards,
Alex.

   

[WEBcreator]

I cant see anything such as number of tokens left on the side? IMO this is important for a potential investor like me, I can actually see the interest of the markets from the number of tokens issued left and Im not sure wether you forget to show it or you are hiding it for a purposes