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GreekGeek
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March 13, 2013, 08:19:51 PM
 #1

Hey guys

I've been watching this Forum almost 2 years now but never had anything to add, so never joined
Now I found this
Zerocoins: Bitcoin add-on makes your virtual purchases private

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2013/03/bitcoin-zerocoin.html

sounds promising but I am a Mechanichal Engineer

Any CryptoGeeks can explain please ?

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ralree
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March 13, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
 #2

Hmm it's not explained technically in the article...

Quote
The key is that it does this without introducing any new centralised elements into the network

It sounds like you send your coins to some huge wallet, and you can also send instructions to the huge wallet to spend your credit.  I don't see how this could be done in a distributed fashion yet (not requiring a central server).  Perhaps it's some trick with incomplete transactions / oracles:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts

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GreekGeek
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March 13, 2013, 08:32:58 PM
 #3

probably we'll have to wait untill the paper is released in May
thanx for the link

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March 13, 2013, 08:43:29 PM
 #4

Bitcoin don't need this

Everything is just fine the way it is

WE GOT ENOUGH BITCOINADDRESSES

try your magic trick in the circus Grin
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March 24, 2013, 12:59:02 AM
 #5

There's nothing mysterious about how it works:
Quote
Zerocoin works by allowing Bitcoin users to leave their coins floating on the network for someone else to redeem, on the condition that they can redeem the same amount of Bitcoin, similarly left floating on the network, at an arbitrary time in the future.

In other words, you leave your bitcoins somewhere in the network, to be picked up and used by some stranger using the addon. Then you use some other stranger's bitcoins.

What I don't like about zerocoin is:
Quote
"Zerocoin would give you this incredible privacy guarantee, then we could add on some features which let the police, for instance, to be able to track money laundering. A back door."

I believe letting someone do searches on data meant to protect privacy is against protecting privacy.
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March 24, 2013, 01:17:59 AM
 #6

There's nothing mysterious about how it works:
Quote
Zerocoin works by allowing Bitcoin users to leave their coins floating on the network for someone else to redeem, on the condition that they can redeem the same amount of Bitcoin, similarly left floating on the network, at an arbitrary time in the future.

In other words, you leave your bitcoins somewhere in the network, to be picked up and used by some stranger using the addon. Then you use some other stranger's bitcoins.

What I don't like about zerocoin is:
Quote
"Zerocoin would give you this incredible privacy guarantee, then we could add on some features which let the police, for instance, to be able to track money laundering. A back door."

I believe letting someone do searches on data meant to protect privacy is against protecting privacy.


was just going to add this, they are obviously just doing this as an academic thing then, because its pretty pointless to make a privacy system that can then be made not private.

-or maybe they want us all using this so they can track us more easily with there back door  Huh

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March 24, 2013, 02:05:50 AM
 #7

Privacy is built into BITCOIN!!

/END THREAD

 
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March 26, 2013, 07:22:59 PM
 #8

There's nothing mysterious about how it works:
Quote
Zerocoin works by allowing Bitcoin users to leave their coins floating on the network for someone else to redeem, on the condition that they can redeem the same amount of Bitcoin, similarly left floating on the network, at an arbitrary time in the future.

In other words, you leave your bitcoins somewhere in the network, to be picked up and used by some stranger using the addon. Then you use some other stranger's bitcoins.

What I don't like about zerocoin is:
Quote
"Zerocoin would give you this incredible privacy guarantee, then we could add on some features which let the police, for instance, to be able to track money laundering. A back door."

I believe letting someone do searches on data meant to protect privacy is against protecting privacy.


was just going to add this, they are obviously just doing this as an academic thing then, because its pretty pointless to make a privacy system that can then be made not private.

-or maybe they want us all using this so they can track us more easily with there back door  Huh

More likely they want funding to develop the code, and then an open source clone without the backdoor would be devleoped and would be the actual system used, and the banksters get left with notihing of useful value for their "investments".  It's open source, dude, if there is a backdoor, it can be found in the code and either altered or exploited.  IT's not really going to happen in practice.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
chriswen
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April 12, 2013, 03:02:24 PM
 #9

Forbes just released an article today.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/04/12/zerocoin-add-on-for-bitcoin-could-make-it-truly-anonymous-and-untraceable/

Here's the blog post,

http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/04/zerocoin-making-bitcoin-anonymous.html

Here's the whitepaper,

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/135520257?access_key=key-1l8m2jd8qssgw419i4ud

http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/ZerocoinOakland.pdf
virgojeep
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April 12, 2013, 03:10:15 PM
 #10

IMO competition is good in currencies. Most people I talk to in the states don't even realize that there is other money besides dollars which always baffles me. Are we really that uneducated???!!!
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April 12, 2013, 03:54:21 PM
 #11

IMO competition is good in currencies. Most people I talk to in the states don't even realize that there is other money besides dollars which always baffles me. Are we really that uneducated???!!!

Zerocoin isn't really an alt coin.  It'll be pegged to bitcoin.
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April 12, 2013, 08:52:29 PM
 #12

Bitcoin don't need this

Everything is just fine the way it is

WE GOT ENOUGH BITCOINADDRESSES

try your magic trick in the circus Grin

Speak for yourself. I can generate addresses all day, it is not going to break the connection between the transactions.
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April 12, 2013, 11:00:22 PM
 #13

How could a BitCoin exchange be traced? You put in the address, your number goes down, their wallet goes up...

Would someone just need to watch for bitcoin-type data being sent?
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April 12, 2013, 11:21:41 PM
 #14

Looks like the public at large might be so soured on bitcoin that another name and improvement
like ZeroCoin might be a good idea to keep cryptocurrencies going...
but why ZERO? why not call it something more positive?
ripper234
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April 13, 2013, 05:10:05 PM
 #15

Added to the wiki.

Also - Does the ZeroCoin protocol fulfill its promise of anonymity?

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April 13, 2013, 05:21:14 PM
 #16

Privacy is built into BITCOIN!!

This deserves a scammer tag.
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April 13, 2013, 05:48:27 PM
 #17

Might be a good idea to not add this to the BTC code anytime soon. Too much privacy might be counterproductive, at least with the government. To have it as a web thing makes some sense.

I guess people who want total anonymity will find a way to do that.

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April 13, 2013, 09:04:48 PM
 #18

Privacy is built into BITCOIN!!

/END THREAD

+1

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chriswen
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April 14, 2013, 01:59:17 AM
 #19

How could a BitCoin exchange be traced? You put in the address, your number goes down, their wallet goes up...

Would someone just need to watch for bitcoin-type data being sent?

blockchain.info

Also, the whole point of bitcoin is that everything can be traced.  This is the point of the blockchain.  Every coin is traced and you can trace back and eventually you'll get to a mined block.  This is how we prevent double spends.  Keeping track of all the outputs.  You can find out how many bitcoins are at each address.  You can trace where each input of that address came from.

Bitcoin is actually in a way less transparent than credit cards and cash.

Currently, to gain anonymity you would need to use a laundry service.  But you have to put your trust into the laundry service, that they don't run away with your coins or that they don't keep logs of who's coins go where.
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April 14, 2013, 02:01:59 AM
Last edit: April 14, 2013, 02:16:44 AM by chriswen
 #20

Might be a good idea to not add this to the BTC code anytime soon. Too much privacy might be counterproductive, at least with the government. To have it as a web thing makes some sense.

I guess people who want total anonymity will find a way to do that.

with BTC people should have the freedom to have privacy.  And Bitcoin is currently less anonymous than credit cards.  Zerocoin might solve some of those problems.

Okay, I'm going check the wiki and stackexchange now.

EDIT: That didn't help at all.  Well, reading the paper and the blog post helped to explain it to me.
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