financing a 'Community Miner' project; Are You In?

[aliashraf]

There is a dispute between me and almost everybody else here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1368507.440
I'm insisting on investment and istitution and guys are teaching me Lone Ranger way of doing things, as a retired ranger I don't buy it  though.

I will take care of that discussion separately  

Here I'm asking a simple question:

Suppose there is a Blockchain way of managing and fairly scheduling your investments to support a 'community miner' project to:

1- have your fair share of the involved interests being guaranteed

2- be supported as a home miner and

3- have the privilege to participate in a campaign for keeping Bitcoin decentralized aligned with your long term interests as a bitcoiner

ARE YOU IN?  HOW MUCH?

[cryptotore]

What are you talking about?

I get that you are into dezentralizing the network.. it seems like you're trying to create a board of people from the btc community to control the creation of a new ASIC? Why?

The community will back a guy with the proven know-how, and ability to create a new ASIC.
The community will not back a group of self-entitled douchebags who has paid for their voices to be heard.

Have I interpreted you correctly?

[alh]

Is there reason to have TWO threads, that are named the same, with different capitalizations for the words?

This doesn't make any sense to me.

[DebitMe]

I don't see how this could possibly work.  First of all, the main ASIC designers are light years ahead of the game and it would take a group of people with tons of experience to be able to rival them at this point.  On top of that, you could never truly be decentralized as someone would always have to control the funds and how they will be used, so you will always be trusting someone or some group, and investing in ASIC's without them being ready to be shipped has not worked out well in the past for any group.

[scyth3]

No because capitalism > socialism.

A socialized miner will not be able to compete with a private built miner. Don't waste your time trying.

[aliashraf]

Well ... such a disappointing pledge

I don't understand you people ... what's wrong with you? don't give up!

look:
1- Designing and producing ASIC is not a hard job. SHA256 is a simple repetitive shit of a limited set of operations; a piece of cake for any ASIC designer
2- ASIC Boost has already become open source and licensed reasonably fair.
3- I have encountered  new technologies and methodologies very cost effective in terms of reducing ASIC design/production/test cycles.
4- Other parts of a miner hardware design are of a very straightforward nature and need no R&D investment.
5- We got a lot of miners here with huge experience and knowledge that can be implemented directly to the process.

So why being  a coward?

Don't post me anything other than your readiness to participate and invest. Take your disappointing, negative perceptions with yourself to bed and have fun with a full HD nightmare ...

We are talking about action and hope disciplined and organized using the Blockchain to support it.

It is great!

Forget about playing a Lenze's law game please.

[aliashraf]

Is there reason to have TWO threads, that are named the same, with different capitalizations for the words?

This doesn't make any sense to me.

My bad! Problems with my browser and it happened this way. I think a mod will eventually comes and fixes it.

[aliashraf]

What are you talking about?

I get that you are into dezentralizing the network.. it seems like you're trying to create a board of people from the btc community to control the creation of a new ASIC? Why?

The community will back a guy with the proven know-how, and ability to create a new ASIC.
The community will not back a group of self-entitled douchebags who has paid for their voices to be heard.

Have I interpreted you correctly?

Absolutely not

The community backs people how?

Saying cheers and posting cheerful replies full of emoticons? Donating some mbtc's?

How in the hell, your majesty,  the community can support anybody?

This proposal is about organizing and making it reasonable and  economical to invest/support projects of public interest. What's wrong here? just support mentally if you are busted or have already invested in a farm full of Bitmain hardware!

[Unacceptable]

I lost my ass 3 times by "pitching in",so nope.You get the product ready to ship & then I will buy 

The network hashrate is NOT coming down...ASICs are NOT for sale,so you'll never get enough chips to recoup your investment 

Mining bitcoin at home is over,in case you didn't get the memo 

[kilo17]

There is a dispute between me and almost everybody else here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1368507.440

There is not a dispute, I think you have not been around long enough to have seen the wreckage of people funding companies projects.

Please read my last post on the above quoted thread.

[aliashraf]

There is a dispute between me and almost everybody else here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1368507.440

There is not a dispute, I think you have not been around long enough to have seen the wreckage of people funding companies projects.

Please read my last post on the above quoted thread.

I answered your post there , and there is a dispute definitively, but lets have it to be resolved there ...

as far as this thread is concerned I have to ask you Mr. Kilo:

Suppose (just suppose for the god sake) there exists a structure reliable enough, backed by the Bitcoin Blockchain that can guarantee fairness, transparency, and strategically well oriented management to fulfill following requirements:

1- accomplishing sophisticated job of attracting and accumulating funds and regulating it to be supplied to the project(s) and nothing else.

2- dispatching interests in a fair agreed way.

3- Communicating with all interested parties, making a balance between conflicting interests, resolving disputes, ....

again (I have to repeat) please, just suppose it is real and operational:

Are You In? How much?

[aliashraf]

Mining bitcoin at home is over,in case you didn't get the memo 

It simply implies: Bitcoin is over.

One should consider the role of community mining in the heart of the Blockchain consensus protocol, never ever under-estimate it I have to repeat every word this days and I don't know why but I do repeat:

Bitcoin is over without community mining

[Unacceptable]

Mining bitcoin at home is over,in case you didn't get the memo 

It simply implies: Bitcoin is over.

One should consider the role of community mining in the heart of the Blockchain consensus protocol, never ever under-estimate it I have to repeat every word this days and I don't know why but I do repeat:

Bitcoin is over without community mining

It's been over for me for about 8 months,I already found other coins to mine & will NOT be mining bitcoin UNLESS....the diff goes down ALOT,or a miner is small enough & cheap enough to run at a loss at home.

Ain't gonna happen so move on bro 

Hell,if sidehack can't get a miner built no one can.And if does get one built,he will not have enough chips to make a really worthwhile run...........

[cryptotore]

What are you talking about?

I get that you are into dezentralizing the network.. it seems like you're trying to create a board of people from the btc community to control the creation of a new ASIC? Why?

The community will back a guy with the proven know-how, and ability to create a new ASIC.
The community will not back a group of self-entitled douchebags who has paid for their voices to be heard.

Have I interpreted you correctly?

Absolutely not

The community backs people how?

Saying cheers and posting cheerful replies full of emoticons? Donating some mbtc's?

How in the hell, your majesty,  the community can support anybody?

This proposal is about organizing and making it reasonable and  economical to invest/support projects of public interest. What's wrong here? just support mentally if you are busted or have already invested in a farm full of Bitmain hardware!

This is how:

[sidehack]

To be fair, a lot of the reason I haven't gotten a miner built is because of how I do business - I try to put as little risk as possible on the customer. Which means I've turned away pretty much everyone who's wanted to put money into my project. An ASIC vendor would likely be more willing to talk to me if I showed up with an aslo of money ready to drop on the table, but I have a profound aversion to taking in money on an unproven design.

[aliashraf]

To be fair, a lot of the reason I haven't gotten a miner built is because of how I do business.

Well said. I do agree. And ...

And it is to be changed, asap. I understand your concerns, I mean it, but you hardware guys should realize something very important , not easy but important enough to try ...

The Blockchain is not a simple irrelevant application on top of a general purpose platform on which you guys are trying to do something as big as designing it from scratch or as small as fixing some voltage level adjustment and control.

The Blockchain is a promising technology, ready to be used to overcome problems like what you are concerned about ...

This is the point! Living in the Blockchain era, is not the same as living in the past, working on Blockchain problems is not to be done in a traditional way, it is new, everything is new and you should take it into account  and put this factor in the equations.

I sincerely ask you sidehack dude to reconsider possibilities to use the Blockchain to fix your problems with raising funds needed to do some thing good, actually good and critically necessary as my analysis of the current situation shows.

I have a proposal for this, I can convince you and other guys about it, it is so practical but I need credit, I need interest. Pessimistic arguments are of no help, neither is showing off Lone Ranger gestures. Nothing happens this way. No chips will be ordered , no pcb's , nothing ... and we are already out of time.

[sidehack]

I have never considered the blockchain to be an irrelevant application on top of anything; nor do I consider applications on top of a blockchain to be, in general, a bad thing. I just still don't like the idea of harnessing the Bitcoin blockchain for other than its original purpose.

So, what exactly is your proposal? Let's see a detailed layout of the concepts instead of the jargon-fraught arguments which have gotten you nowhere thus far. But remember, if you're going to try and convince engineers of something you really should avoid fluff and hollow manager-speak and stick to raw details.

[aliashraf]

I have never considered the blockchain to be an irrelevant application on top of anything; nor do I consider applications on top of a blockchain to be, in general, a bad thing. I just still don't like the idea of harnessing the Bitcoin blockchain for other than its original purpose.

So, what exactly is your proposal? Let's see a detailed layout of the concepts instead of the jargon-fraught arguments which have gotten you nowhere thus far. But remember, if you're going to try and convince engineers of something you really should avoid fluff and hollow manager-speak and stick to raw details.

As an engineer, with more than a quarter of a century of high level professional background, I'll never present a detailed technical proposal to people with little or zero interest in buying it, leave alone their competence in understanding it.

Thus, hereby , I announce:

I am ready to give a comprehensive and convincing proposal for implementing semi-smart contracts using Bitcoin Blockchain, given a simple precondition (to be mentioned) is satisfied.
 
It will include extensive detailed, diagrammatic  and formal definition of:

1- Entities and their relationships

2- Core protocol and its respected transition state flow

3- It's relevance to most of the contract oriented problems in the real world.


As it takes a lot of time and effort for me, to be documented in a structured way, I will do it if and only if:
 a handful (5 or more)  of legendary, active, respected members of this forum show interest and commitment to the subject of a hypothetical fair, transparent guaranteed way of raising funds for the 'community miner' project.

To have their attention and commitment, in this phase of development, I can just mention following outlines of my semi-smart contracts proposal:

1- It is not any thing like smart contracts in the Turing complete  approach people in Ethereum Foundation or 'game theory' enthusiasts are in love with.

2- It will use colored coins extensively.

3- It utilizes existing networks of trust (like this forum) and their respective social capital without fear of acquisitions about not being 'mathematically provable' . It is not mathematics, it is socioeconomic using mathematics extensively but not exclusively.

4- It is about quantifying and tracking promises, reputation, credits, obligations and so on.

5- Its final destination is money transfer, as the ultimate purpose of contracts, so it uses the Bitcoin Blockchain as its main infrastructure for transaction processing, but it uses other (new or existing structures) for some other purposes.

6- It works with real world data to evaluate contracts and their consequences.


until my above precondition is fulfilled, I am ready to discuss importance, and feasibility of such a hypothetical ecosystem and protocol.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Your proposal is far outside my interests so I'm out.

[sidehack]

Ditto. I won't buy something you're not willing to explain until after I've bought it.