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Author Topic: How does negative feedback work?  (Read 869 times)
ITVS (OP)
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June 27, 2016, 08:22:34 PM
 #1

I understand positive feedback & its effect on a profile but How does negative feedback work?
Using this profile as an example:
brendanjhwu
-8: -3 / +0

How do these negative numbers behave differently if the profile does/does not have Default trust in their trust settings?
All I fully understand at the moment is the middle number is the number of unique members who have given this user a negative feedback within his/her trust list.
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June 27, 2016, 09:00:05 PM
 #2

I understand positive feedback & its effect on a profile but How does negative feedback work?
Using this profile as an example:
brendanjhwu
-8: -3 / +0

How do these negative numbers behave differently if the profile does/does not have Default trust in their trust settings?
All I fully understand at the moment is the middle number is the number of unique members who have given this user a negative feedback within his/her trust list.


Almost correct.  It's the number of unique members who are in your trust network.  Not having Default trust in your trust list will remove everyone that was added on DT from your trust network.  Adding other user in your trust list will add them, and the users in their trust list if you set the depth to 1 and the users in depth 1 users' trust lists if you set it it to depth 2 and so on, to your trust network.

The number on the right is the positive feedbacks and works the same way as above.
First number is the calculated value of the other two.  It is quite complicated for me to explain properly so I'll just refer you to the formula here.

Trusted an exchange that climbed to the top 3 in just under 2 years with your money? you are fucking stupid.
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June 28, 2016, 06:32:19 AM
 #3

I'd advise you not to change your trust list randomly, or at least not if you aren't completely sure what you're doing. You're manipulating your own trust score for yourself (and people with the same trust list). It might be worth reading up a bit more on the trust system. Most of the people are going to see this when they check your profile:

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June 28, 2016, 02:21:23 PM
 #4

I understand positive feedback & its effect on a profile but How does negative feedback work?

The same. Smiley

The last few trusted feedbacks (as per the trust network of the viewer) are given more weight than the old ones (which makes it way more useful than otherwise).

Neutral feedbacks have zero effect.
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June 29, 2016, 05:01:34 PM
 #5

I'd advise you not to change your trust list randomly, or at least not if you aren't completely sure what you're doing.


I'd advise you to, right off the bat, remove default trust from your trust list.  The centralization of trust scores around the default list has led to years of problems and abuses.  It's something that theymos has been trying to avoid and it's really only there to get you started.  If you remove default trust then you can see that suddently everyone's trust scores go to zero.  Now, take someone that you trust who's left some feedback and put them on your trust list, you'll now see that that person's ratings show up as trusted.  Build your own trust list.  It's important.  The more people take this on for themselves the stronger the community is against trust-based attacks like the ones that Quickseller (inter alia) have pulled or were planning to pull.

Of course it's important to take a look at the default trust list's output from time to time (what ratings show up on who when you have default trust added) just so that you can stay abreast of what all the sheeple are looking at.  But if you're an independently minded person who believes that decentralization is crucial for strength, put your own trust list together and manage it actively.

Just my opinion.
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July 01, 2016, 02:47:00 PM
 #6

So let's say I keep Default trust.
Does it effect me if someone in my trust list has negative trust from default trust
or am I right that the only thing that reflects badly on me is negative feedbacks from those in my  trust list.
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July 01, 2016, 02:50:35 PM
 #7

So let's say I keep Default trust.
Does it effect me if someone in my trust list has negative trust from default trust
or am I right that the only thing that reflects badly on me is negative feedbacks from those in my  trust list.
It doesn't. The only feedback that will reflect in you are the feedbacks directly given to you by someone. It doesn't necessarily has to came from someone on your trust list. Anyone can give you negative and it will show. Tbe only difference is if the person who gave you a feedback is from a DT it will show on the trusted feedback. From that everyone can see the negative on your profile. On the other hand if a feedback came from someone untrusted on the forum, it willshow on the untrusted feedback. It is in your feedbacks but it will not show red.

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July 01, 2016, 04:34:28 PM
 #8

is it possible to turn trust and associated comments off? 
ndnh
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July 02, 2016, 05:44:58 AM
 #9

is it possible to turn trust and associated comments off? 

No
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July 02, 2016, 10:22:56 AM
 #10

is it possible to turn trust and associated comments off?  
If you don't want to see anyone's trust ratings (other than your own) outside of 'Untrusted Feedback' then you can add the line ~DefaultTrust to your trust list.
Be warned that this will (obviously) remove all trust ratings, meaning you may end up dealing with known scammers if you don't check well prior.
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July 03, 2016, 04:43:46 AM
 #11

I understand positive feedback & its effect on a profile but How does negative feedback work?

The same. Smiley

The last few trusted feedbacks (as per the trust network of the viewer) are given more weight than the old ones (which makes it way more useful than otherwise).

Neutral feedbacks have zero effect.

Are you saying that after time, your trust score will go down, as the reps you received are becoming more and more outdated?
is it possible to turn trust and associated comments off? 
If you don't want to see anyone's trust ratings (other than your own) outside of 'Untrusted Feedback' then you can add the line ~DefaultTrust to your trust list.
Be warned that this will (obviously) remove all trust ratings, meaning you may end up dealing with known scammers if you don't check well prior.

Let me just add that this ruins the point of the trust system. A better way would be to type in -*insert name here* in the box to make sure their reps make no effect on the trust you see.
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July 03, 2016, 05:45:30 AM
Last edit: July 03, 2016, 06:06:16 AM by ndnhc
 #12

I understand positive feedback & its effect on a profile but How does negative feedback work?

The same. Smiley

The last few trusted feedbacks (as per the trust network of the viewer) are given more weight than the old ones (which makes it way more useful than otherwise).

Neutral feedbacks have zero effect.

Are you saying that after time, your trust score will go down, as the reps you received are becoming more and more outdated?

No. Over time the trust score goes up.
In my understanding, the trust score depends on:
1. The number of trusted feedbacks
2. The number of trusted feedbacks from unique members
3. The number of months from when you have received your first trusted feedback.

What I meant in the previous post was that, if you receive 100 positive trusted feedbacks and then receive 10 negative ones, the score will be ??? or negative.



Edit.
Found it:

The trust score numbers are now slightly different:
- The first number is the trust score.
- The second number is the number of unique users who have given that person negative feedback.
- The third number is the number of unique users who have given that person positive feedback.
- The fourth number was removed.

I also completely changed the trust score algorithm to this:
Code:
if there are no negative ratings
score = 0
for each rating, oldest to newest
if this rater has already been counted
continue
score += min(10, round_up(months since rating))
else
score = unique_positive - 2^(unique_negative)
if score >= 0
start_time = time of first negative
score = unique_positive since start_time - unique_negative since start_time
if(score < 0)
return ??? (orange)

move score to range [-9999,9999]
return score

This algorithm is a little slower than the previous one. Post here if you think you see extra slowness due to this change. Maybe I need to add extra caching to compensate.

Also post here if someone has a trust score that seems wrong.

I was going to change it so that everyone with 0 trust had orange trust, but I decided that this looked bad and changed it back.

??? is a valid score in the new algorithm.

Doesn't that mean if someone receives a positive and a negative rating, they'll go negative if the negative is newer?

If someone has 1 positive and 1 negative, then the time doesn't matter. They'll have a score of -1.

Examples:
Old -> New
+ - : -1
- + : -1
+ + - : ???
+ - + : 0
- + + : 1

+ + + : >=3
- - + : -3
+ - - : -3
- - - : -8

That seems like quite an extreme decay, ratings after 10 months are worthless? Its going to lead to a lot of reposted ratings to refresh them.

There is no decay. Ratings grow in weight from 1 to 10, then stay at 10 forever. (If the rated person has no negatives.)

It looks like no matter what if the last feedback you receive is negative then you will either have a ?? ? Trust score or a negative score.

Correct. Your trust network is assumed to consist of people who are basically reasonable. So if any trusted ratings are negative (which means "this person is probably a scammer, watch out!"), then this should be taken very seriously. That's why a single negative rating can easily cause a loss of 100+ trust points in this new algorithm. And if the most recent rating is negative, then this is a strong indicator that the person may have been running a long con which has turned into a full-blown scam.

Edited.
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July 05, 2016, 03:14:55 PM
 #13

If you don't want to see anyone's trust ratings (other than your own) outside of 'Untrusted Feedback' then you can add the line ~DefaultTrust to your trust list.
Be warned that this will (obviously) remove all trust ratings, meaning you may end up dealing with known scammers if you don't check well prior.
Let me just add that this ruins the point of the trust system. A better way would be to type in -*insert name here* in the box to make sure their reps make no effect on the trust you see.

Well, if you're looking for a way to opt out, and I can see reasons for that (what if you don't trade and you're merely here to learn about technical matters?  There's a lot of silly drama related to trust ratings and if you don't care then maybe you just don't wanna see them), then it seems like a great way to do this.

Also, it seems to provide a direct and accurate answer to this:

is it possible to turn trust and associated comments off? 

Well, it wouldn't turn them off, but it would move them to "untrusted" and make it so that none of the ratings appears when you're reading a thread.
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