Chinese Miners Revolt, Announces Plan to Hard Fork to Classic

[AgentofCoin]

I would not be surprised if this turns out to be true.

I agree. Or becomes true.

The Chinese operators
...do not understand the simplest things.
...they are total dumbshits.
..,even understand that simple thing?

I disagree. What makes you so superior over the Chinese miners?

I didn't say I was superior, I just said they are dumbshits and don't understand simple things.
They clearly do not understand the agreement they signed and they clearly do not understand
the consequences of what they are about to do (or rumored to do).

Miners should stick with what they know, which is mining.

Seems they want their cake and want to eat it too.

I would not be surprised if this turns out to be true.
The Chinese operators of these mining pools do not understand the simplest things.
They may be able to buy and/or build more mining units to increase their hashing capacity
and out compete all others, but when it comes to anything else Bitcoin, they are total dumbshits.

If the Chinese Miners want to switch to Classic or anything other, they should be prepared to
take over and be singularly responsible for all future programming for that fork.
It is very likely a decent amount of Devs will walk off if they do this.

If they start setting up and attempt this fork, they better have a better plan then what is proposed.

It is contingent that the Core team stays and works on Classic, even though Classic is controlled
and maintained by totally different Devs. Do the Chinese Miners even understand that simple thing?

1MB4EVA KeccakCoin or Good Ol' BTC with greater throughput... hrm, tough choice.

Your arguing that the fact that they can make that vote a reality, that it transforms to the right choice?

That is total dumb shit thinking.
If majority of people vote to destroy the moon, then it's a good decision by your reasoning.

Great thinking there. Bright future ahead. 

[Btcvilla]

What a load of shit. Must try harder young shill.

Here you are, scratching out a few satoshis by shilling shit gambling sites in your signature and avatar (what's it like, whoring yourself out for chump change?), and you got the nerve to call someone else a shill

Unless you have something more than your eye-raping ads & feeble ad hominems to add to the thread, please refrain from posting in the future.

He is a hero with over 600 activity, your a newbie with 14. Just by looking at his activity and rank, you can tell he contributed a lot more to the forum than you. You need to get out.

Also, 777 coin pays pretty damn well to their hero members.

[pikebu]

Let us wait and see

[giggidy23]

What a load of shit. Must try harder young shill.

Here you are, scratching out a few satoshis by shilling shit gambling sites in your signature and avatar (what's it like, whoring yourself out for chump change?), and you got the nerve to call someone else a shill

Unless you have something more than your eye-raping ads & feeble ad hominems to add to the thread, please refrain from posting in the future.

He is a hero with over 600 activity, your a newbie with 14. Just by looking at his activity and rank, you can tell he contributed a lot more to the forum than you. You need to get out.

Also, 777 coin pays pretty damn well to their hero members.

First, take your signature spamming elsewhere, you are doing the same shit the other signature whore was reprehended for: Contributing nothing of substance and whoring a sig. Spamming your sig all over the forum is not contributing, it's pretty much the opposite of contributing.

To bring this back on topic: This is what started the whole thing:

https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4q3ztw/a_call_for_core_developers_to_clarify_their/d4q6ryh?context=3

[–]luke-jrLuke Dashjr - Bitcoin Expert 2 points 17 hours ago

HaoBTC, in the future, if you have concerns or questions that need clarification and/or answering, please just ask, rather than posting on a blog that we probably don't read and might not even notice...

Things that we tried to make clear both at the meeting itself, as well as afterward on social media:

    Core contributors present and party to the agreement were not acting as representatives of the Core dev team, (This was made VERY clear.)
    There was no hardfork promised (not even all the Core dev team has authority to do that), only code that could be recommended for one. (This also was made VERY clear.)
    The hardfork proposal promised was not a "2 MB hardfork", but a hardfork that would include as one minor change, the ability to include up to 2 MB of current witness-included-in-txid (anyone-can-malleate) transactions.
    Miners have no leverage to make demands. If they attempt to hardfork without community consensus, they harm only themselves, while Bitcoin moves on without them. (At least for my part, my goal of the agreement was to end division and argumentation, which did not happen, admittedly not because of the fault of many of the agreement participants.)
    The July 2016 estimate was not part of the agreement, and certainly not a deadline. It was (at the time) a reasonable expectation based on the agreement terms.
    Speaking only for myself, I made the promise with sincerity, and intend to uphold it best I can (despite the almost immediate violation by one of the parties).

Admittedly, both at the meeting and now, I consider the "SegWit delayed until HF is released in Core" position some miners took to be unviable, and that miners will be pressured to deploy it much sooner by the community. After all, not deploying segwit literally means they are preventing the block size increase. However, I understand the agreement places no such obligation on them.

Since the agreement was made:

    SegWit has still not yet been included in a release. Thus the three months deadline has not even begun "counting" yet. (I still aspire to have something by the end of July if possible, but I consider this to be above and beyond the agreed-on terms.)
    Discussions have revealed that the goal of expanding space for anyone-can-malleate transactions loses the necessary performance improvements included with SegWit to make larger blocks safer, thus cannot safely be done without ugly hacks to introduce new limits similar to BIP 109 which might become a nuisance to Bitcoin both today and in the future. This isn't a show-stopper to writing code, but it may make it difficult to come up with something that unbiased parties can recommend.
    Many third parties have expressed that they will under no conditions consent to a hardfork that comes out of this or any other political agreement. This won't block code nor recommentation, but it does guarantee such a proposal cannot be adopted.
    Some developer(s) have expressed concerns that doing a hardfork safely ("soft hardfork") is somehow "unethical" to them, and doing it unsafely will require even greater efforts on ensuring consensus is reached not only from the community, but also that there are no nodes accidentally left behind. This isn't a blocker, but it probably makes deployment much harder.

[rizzlarolla]

I would not be surprised if this turns out to be true.

I agree. Or becomes true.

The Chinese operators
...do not understand the simplest things.
...they are total dumbshits.
..,even understand that simple thing?

I disagree. What makes you so superior over the Chinese miners?

I didn't say I was superior, I just said they are dumb shits and don't understand simple things.

Ok, but your superior to dumb shits that don't understand simple things, or not?
Just saying.

[Btcvilla]

What a load of shit. Must try harder young shill.

Here you are, scratching out a few satoshis by shilling shit gambling sites in your signature and avatar (what's it like, whoring yourself out for chump change?), and you got the nerve to call someone else a shill

Unless you have something more than your eye-raping ads & feeble ad hominems to add to the thread, please refrain from posting in the future.

He is a hero with over 600 activity, your a newbie with 14. Just by looking at his activity and rank, you can tell he contributed a lot more to the forum than you. You need to get out.

Also, 777 coin pays pretty damn well to their hero members.

First, take your signature spamming elsewhere, you are doing the same shit the other signature whore was reprehended for: Contributing nothing of substance and whoring a sig. Spamming your sig all over the forum is not contributing, it's pretty much the opposite of contributing.

You are a newbie who has done nothing be insult people for no reason.

Someone with common sense posted a reply, and you went off topic talking about his signature.

[giggidy23]

What a load of shit. Must try harder young shill.

Here you are, scratching out a few satoshis by shilling shit gambling sites in your signature and avatar (what's it like, whoring yourself out for chump change?), and you got the nerve to call someone else a shill

Unless you have something more than your eye-raping ads & feeble ad hominems to add to the thread, please refrain from posting in the future.

He is a hero with over 600 activity, your a newbie with 14. Just by looking at his activity and rank, you can tell he contributed a lot more to the forum than you. You need to get out.

Also, 777 coin pays pretty damn well to their hero members.

First, take your signature spamming elsewhere, you are doing the same shit the other signature whore was reprehended for: Contributing nothing of substance and whoring a sig. Spamming your sig all over the forum is not contributing, it's pretty much the opposite of contributing.

You are a newbie who has done nothing be insult people for no reason.

Someone with common sense posted a reply, and you went off topic talking about his signature.

My forum rank is irrelevant. You and your alt may have been spamming up this forum for years, scratching out penny shavings (which you turn around and lose to the same gambling sites you pimp), but this don't turn your shit into Shinola.

Please stay on topic, or better still, delete your post and spam some other sub.

[AliceGored]

I would not be surprised if this turns out to be true.
The Chinese operators of these mining pools do not understand the simplest things.
They may be able to buy and/or build more mining units to increase their hashing capacity
and out compete all others, but when it comes to anything else Bitcoin, they are total dumbshits.

If the Chinese Miners want to switch to Classic or anything other, they should be prepared to
take over and be singularly responsible for all future programming for that fork.
It is very likely a decent amount of Devs will walk off if they do this.

If they start setting up and attempt this fork, they better have a better plan then what is proposed.

It is contingent that the Core team stays and works on Classic, even though Classic is controlled
and maintained by totally different Devs. Do the Chinese Miners even understand that simple thing?

1MB4EVA KeccakCoin or Good Ol' BTC with greater throughput... hrm, tough choice.

Your arguing that the fact that they can make that vote a reality, that it transforms to the right choice?

That is total dumb shit thinking.
If majority of people vote to destroy the moon, then it's a good decision by your reasoning.

Great thinking there. Bright future ahead. 

*You're

I simply posted satoshi's description of Bitcoin's consensus mechanism. You're the one who equated Bitcoin with higher throughput akin to "destroying the moon".

Miners will face the consequence or reward of their decision via the exchange rate. As the price shot up near $40 upon hearing this rumor... the market may disagree with your sentiment.

If you disagree with miner consensus, you will remain completely free to dump your coins or move to an altcoin more in line with your philosophy. 

[AgentofCoin]

I would not be surprised if this turns out to be true.

I agree. Or becomes true.

The Chinese operators
...do not understand the simplest things.
...they are total dumbshits.
..,even understand that simple thing?

I disagree. What makes you so superior over the Chinese miners?

I didn't say I was superior, I just said they are dumb shits and don't understand simple things.

Ok, but your superior to dumb shits that don't understand simple things, or not?
Just saying.

Superiority is irreverent. I can call someone a moron and not claim to be superior to them.
It is possible I am a dumbshit as to things that I am unaware of, but the miners know of.
Does that make them superior to me now?

I think what the Chinese Miners are rumored to have agreed to in secret is a major dumbshit move.

Are you arguing that the Miners are superior to the Devs here?

[BeadUsher]

Are you arguing that the Miners are superior to the Devs here?

Superior to which devs, Core or Classic? Do you not see how the Miners' interests may be different from Blockstream's Core devs?

[Btcvilla]

What a load of shit. Must try harder young shill.

Here you are, scratching out a few satoshis by shilling shit gambling sites in your signature and avatar (what's it like, whoring yourself out for chump change?), and you got the nerve to call someone else a shill

Unless you have something more than your eye-raping ads & feeble ad hominems to add to the thread, please refrain from posting in the future.

He is a hero with over 600 activity, your a newbie with 14. Just by looking at his activity and rank, you can tell he contributed a lot more to the forum than you. You need to get out.

Also, 777 coin pays pretty damn well to their hero members.

First, take your signature spamming elsewhere, you are doing the same shit the other signature whore was reprehended for: Contributing nothing of substance and whoring a sig. Spamming your sig all over the forum is not contributing, it's pretty much the opposite of contributing.

You are a newbie who has done nothing be insult people for no reason.

Someone with common sense posted a reply, and you went off topic talking about his signature.

My forum rank is irrelevant. You and your alt may have been spamming up this forum for years, scratching out penny shavings (which you turn around and lose to the same gambling sites you pimp), but this don't turn your shit into Shinola.

Please stay on topic, or better still, delete your post and spam some other sub.

Your forum rank is very much relevant. You are brand new this forum and your insulting people who have been here for years.

You are obviously a troll. Almost everything you have posted is you throwing insults at other users, acting superior to them.

You will not last long on this forum.

[AgentofCoin]

I would not be surprised if this turns out to be true.
The Chinese operators of these mining pools do not understand the simplest things.
They may be able to buy and/or build more mining units to increase their hashing capacity
and out compete all others, but when it comes to anything else Bitcoin, they are total dumbshits.

If the Chinese Miners want to switch to Classic or anything other, they should be prepared to
take over and be singularly responsible for all future programming for that fork.
It is very likely a decent amount of Devs will walk off if they do this.

If they start setting up and attempt this fork, they better have a better plan then what is proposed.

It is contingent that the Core team stays and works on Classic, even though Classic is controlled
and maintained by totally different Devs. Do the Chinese Miners even understand that simple thing?

1MB4EVA KeccakCoin or Good Ol' BTC with greater throughput... hrm, tough choice.

Your arguing that the fact that they can make that vote a reality, that it transforms to the right choice?

That is total dumb shit thinking.
If majority of people vote to destroy the moon, then it's a good decision by your reasoning.

Great thinking there. Bright future ahead.  

*You're

I simply posted satoshi's description of Bitcoin's consensus mechanism. You're the one who equated Bitcoin with higher throughput akin to "destroying the moon".

Miners will face the consequence or reward of their decision via the exchange rate. As the price shot up near $40 upon hearing this rumor... the market may disagree with your sentiment.

If you disagree with miner consensus, you will remain completely free to dump your coins or move to an altcoin more in line with your philosophy.  

I didn't equate "higher throughput" to "destroying the moon".
I provided an example to my prior statement: "Your arguing that the fact that they
can make that vote a reality, that it transforms to the right choice?"

So what you are saying I said is pretty out of context. I'm not against "higher throughput", and never said to be.

If the miner's do this, I will and sure others will buy into an altcoin that is in line with the original Bitcoin philosophy.  

[giggidy23]

My forum rank is irrelevant. You and your alt may have been spamming up this forum for years, scratching out penny shavings (which you turn around and lose to the same gambling sites you pimp), but this don't turn your shit into Shinola.

Please stay on topic, or better still, delete your post and spam some other sub.

Your forum rank is very much relevant. You are brand new this forum and your insulting people who have been here for years.

Are you telling me that years of whoring yourself out to gambling websites and shitting up this forum with signature spam has earned you the right to post off-topic replies & insult new users?
I respectfully disagree.

[AgentofCoin]

Are you arguing that the Miners are superior to the Devs here?

Superior to which devs, Core or Classic? Do you not see how the Miners' interests may be different from Blockstream's Core devs?

Do you not see that the Miner's future is contingent on the Core Devs continuing to work on Bitcoin into the future?
You seriously think the Classic devs will be able to handle it all on their own?

Do you have guarantees that Core Devs will continue to participate after such move?

Do you really care about the future of Bitcoin, or do you just care about winning your sides argument?

[rizzlarolla]

I would not be surprised if this turns out to be true.

I agree. Or becomes true.

The Chinese operators
...do not understand the simplest things.
...they are total dumbshits.
..,even understand that simple thing?

I disagree. What makes you so superior over the Chinese miners?

I didn't say I was superior, I just said they are dumb shits and don't understand simple things.

Ok, but your superior to dumb shits that don't understand simple things, or not?
Just saying.

Superiority is irreverent. I can call someone a moron and not claim to be superior to them.
It is possible I am a dumbshit as to things that I am unaware of, but the miners know of.
Does that make them superior to me now?

I think what the Chinese Miners are rumored to have agreed to in secret is a major dumbshit move.

Are you arguing that the Miners are superior to the Devs here?

I don't really see how you can call someone a moron, without the implication you are better than a moron. = superior.
So the miners "know of" now? I thought you said they do not understand the simplest things.
In my opinion, they probably are superior to you on this issue.
I was just saying. Just my opinion. obviously we wont agree here.

Ok, dumb shit "move" iyo. (not quite the same as "dumb shit Chinese miners, is it?)
I accept your opinion on that, even though my opinion is opposite.
It was so secret, I could predict it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1410211.0

"Are you arguing that the Miners are superior to the Devs here?"
Oh well, I wasn't. I was arguing that you were incorrect to call Chinese miners dumb shits incapable of understanding the smallest thing.

[BeadUsher]

Are you arguing that the Miners are superior to the Devs here?

Superior to which devs, Core or Classic? Do you not see how the Miners' interests may be different from Blockstream's Core devs?

Do you not see that the Miner's future is contingent on the Core Devs continuing to work on Bitcoin into the future?

It is. If they keep trusting Core devs to do what they promised, they're gonna lose a shitload of money. And that's why this is happening right now.

You seriously think the Classic devs will be able to handle it all on their own?

Can't do much worse.

Do you really care about the future of Bitcoin, or do you just care about winning your sides argument?

Questions like this that are less than constructive. Why are you asking me this? How would my answering in the positive or negative alter the facts?

[AgentofCoin]

I would not be surprised if this turns out to be true.

I agree. Or becomes true.

The Chinese operators
...do not understand the simplest things.
...they are total dumbshits.
..,even understand that simple thing?

I disagree. What makes you so superior over the Chinese miners?

I didn't say I was superior, I just said they are dumb shits and don't understand simple things.

Ok, but your superior to dumb shits that don't understand simple things, or not?
Just saying.

Superiority is irreverent. I can call someone a moron and not claim to be superior to them.
It is possible I am a dumbshit as to things that I am unaware of, but the miners know of.
Does that make them superior to me now?

I think what the Chinese Miners are rumored to have agreed to in secret is a major dumbshit move.

Are you arguing that the Miners are superior to the Devs here?

I don't really see how you can call someone a moron, without the implication you are better than a moron. = superior.
So the miners "know of" now? I thought you said they do not understand the simplest things.
In my opinion, they probably are superior to you on this issue.
I was just saying. Just my opinion. obviously we wont agree here.

Ok, dumb shit "move" iyo. (not quite the same as "dumb shit Chinese miners, is it?)
I accept your opinion on that, even though my opinion is opposite.
It was so secret, I could predict it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1410211.0

"Are you arguing that the Miners are superior to the Devs here?"
Oh well, I wasn't. Are you arguing the opposite?

You have proven to be a dumbshit, as well it seems.

I'm arguing not to tell someone how to do their job.
Chinese Miner's are telling the Core Devs that they don't know what they are doing.
So by your reasoning, the Miner's think they are superior to the Core Devs.
So by that reasoning, the Miner's are calling the Core Devs dumbshits. Lol.

Maybe the miners should stick to mining, is my point.

[Lauda]

It is. If they keep trusting Core devs to do what they promised, they're gonna lose a shitload of money. And that's why this is happening right now.

Wrong. The people who attended the HK meeting have done nothing that violates their "agreement" yet. It was well known that the people were acting as individuals and could in no way guarantee that the presented HF (not yet) would be merged into Core.

Can't do much worse.

Classic developers are like high school programmers in comparison to the people working on Core.

Do you have guarantees that Core Devs will continue to participate after such move?

I'm certain that it is likely that most of them would abandon their 'public' work for Bitcoin. Would you not do the same if you got 'stabbed in the back' after this much time?

[AgentofCoin]

Are you arguing that the Miners are superior to the Devs here?

Superior to which devs, Core or Classic? Do you not see how the Miners' interests may be different from Blockstream's Core devs?

Do you not see that the Miner's future is contingent on the Core Devs continuing to work on Bitcoin into the future?

It is. If they keep trusting Core devs to do what they promised, they're gonna lose a shitload of money. And that's why this is happening right now.

You seriously think the Classic devs will be able to handle it all on their own?

Can't do much worse.

Do you really care about the future of Bitcoin, or do you just care about winning your sides argument?

Questions like this that are less than constructive. Why are you asking me this? How would my answering in the positive or negative alter the facts?

It is pretty clear you are concerned with financial growth for bitcoin and I am concerned with making Bitcoin stronger through resistance.
I argue that the financial growth you want and hope for will never come about from straying from the reasoning of Bitcoin's creation.

Bitcoin was not created as a quick rich scheme.
If Miner's are losing money, it is because they expanded too quickly.
Mass adoption is still 10 years out. Build it and they will come is a myth.

[PorkUsher]

You have proven to be a dumbshit, as well it seems.

I'm arguing not to tell someone how to do their job.
Chinese Miner's are telling the Core Devs that they don't know what they are doing.

Well that's where the problem is, a misunderstanding.
No, the miners aren't telling the devs "that they don't know what they are doing." What they're telling them is they're not doing what they *promised to do*.
The interests of the miners are not the same as the interests of Core devs, see?

I'll give you an analogy, show you what I mean:
Let's say Core devs are building a railroad, and drawing pay from Mayor Mccheese.
The railroad can go through the plains, which will take it right through Hamburglar's Town, or it can go over the mountains, which would take it right through The city of Mccheese.

Now, many would argue that it makes more sense to build the railroad on the plains, because no need to blast. And many will tell you just the opposite, that the mountain route is better, because shorter.
Both are not wrong. But guess which way the railroad's gonna go tho?
See where this is going?