Finnish software firm offers to pay part of staff’s salary in Bitcoin

[areebmajeed]

Read the news on TheNextWeb: http://thenextweb.com/eu/2013/03/15/finnish-software-company-offers-employees-to-pay-part-of-their-salary-in-bitcoin/

[Bitcoinpro]

everyone wants to be paid in bitcoin

[Technomage]

It is provided by us. Our service is expanding to Europe this spring, by the way.

[Kris]

Nice one, I would like my freelance work to be paid in Bitcoin as well. That would be great.

Currently it is coming along, slowly but steady though.

[zefir]

Read the news on TheNextWeb: http://thenextweb.com/eu/2013/03/15/finnish-software-company-offers-employees-to-pay-part-of-their-salary-in-bitcoin/

Maybe worth mentioning that that guy getting partially paid in BTC is Martti Malmi, aka sirius, owner of this forum and its second member after Satoshi.

[rpietila]

LOL just imagine how many companies pay all of their temps' salary in bitcoin but don't make a big fuss about it.

[Lethn]

Looks like Finland is the place to go if you want to set up a legitimate company that takes Bitcoin.

[rpietila]

Looks like Finland is the place to go if you want to set up a legitimate company that takes Bitcoin.

LOL most of the companies I own have some bitcoin reserves or do trade with bitcoin.

But my main operative company in Finland can not yet accept bitcoin, due to legal/tax concerns. The Finnish invention is that since Bitcoin is a commodity, it is subject to 24% VAT.

Go to Estonia rather. That is a land of the free. In their language: "Eesti Vabariik" = Free State of Estonia.

[Technomage]

Paying salaries with Bitcoin, it changes absolutely nothing in terms of bookkeeping, taxes, or regulation. It can be done, anywhere. At least if it's done the way SC5 does it. They actually buy bitcoins with a portion of the salary each month, and those bitcoins go straight to the employees.

So they simply divert a portion of the salary to our service which then pays bitcoins to the employees address. For all intents and purposes, this changed nothing for the company. It's simply a conversion. The company doesn't have any bitcoins at any point during this transaction.

It would be different if the company owned bitcoins and payed with those, I think. But if it's done like this, it's a trivial thing.

[rpietila]

Paying salaries with Bitcoin, it changes absolutely nothing in terms of bookkeeping, taxes, or regulation. It can be done, anywhere. At least if it's done the way SC5 does it. They actually buy bitcoins with a portion of the salary each month, and those bitcoins go straight to the employees. So they simply divert a portion of the salary to our service which then pays bitcoins to the employees address. For all intents and purposes, this changed nothing for the company. It's simply a conversion. The company doesn't have any bitcoins at any point during this transaction.

Yes. It is easy for the company to do that. It is also easy to just buy bitcoins for investment. But trading with them (in Finland, as a company) is time-consuming and stupidly hard, and you if anyone should know it.

[cypherdoc]

Paying salaries with Bitcoin, it changes absolutely nothing in terms of bookkeeping, taxes, or regulation. It can be done, anywhere. At least if it's done the way SC5 does it. They actually buy bitcoins with a portion of the salary each month, and those bitcoins go straight to the employees.

So they simply divert a portion of the salary to our service which then pays bitcoins to the employees address. For all intents and purposes, this changed nothing for the company. It's simply a conversion. The company doesn't have any bitcoins at any point during this transaction.

It would be different if the company owned bitcoins and payed with those, I think. But if it's done like this, it's a trivial thing.

almost like stuffing away part of your salary in an investment retirement plan.

[inge]

Looks like Finland is the place to go if you want to set up a legitimate company that takes Bitcoin.

 The Finnish invention is that since Bitcoin is a commodity, it is subject to 24% VAT.

 

24% VAT on Bitcoins? That’s really a lot :+(

Regards, Inge

[Herodes]

Looks like Finland is the place to go if you want to set up a legitimate company that takes Bitcoin.

 The Finnish invention is that since Bitcoin is a commodity, it is subject to 24% VAT.

 

24% VAT on Bitcoins? That’s really a lot :+(

Regards, Inge

I get it you pay 24% on the currency fee, when doing an exchange ? Paying 24% extra for bitcoins essentially makes them useless.

[Technomage]

I get it you pay 24% on the currency fee, when doing an exchange ? Paying 24% extra for bitcoins essentially makes them useless.

Indeed. That's why a business in Finland really can't sell bitcoins from their own pocket. For example, we provide an exchange for buying/selling bitcoins, but we are simply a brokering service. We do pay VAT, but it's only in the brokering fee.

We decided to create a service for paying salaries with bitcoins. We are expanding to Europe with a couple of sites soon, that service will be there as well.

The great thing about this salary service is that almost any employee of any company in Europe can start using it. It requires nothing else from the employer than changing the SEPA address that they pay the salary to. Although if the employee wants only partial salary in bitcoins, then the employer needs to make multiple payments each month.

[rpietila]

We decided to create a service for paying salaries with bitcoins. We are expanding to Europe with a couple of sites soon, that service will be there as well.

The great thing about this salary service is that almost any employee of any company in Europe can start using it. It requires nothing else from the employer than changing the SEPA address that they pay the salary to. Although if the employee wants only partial salary in bitcoins, then the employer needs to make multiple payments each month.

+1

[Herbert]

The great thing about this salary service is that almost any employee of any company in Europe can start using it. It requires nothing else from the employer than changing the SEPA address that they pay the salary to. Although if the employee wants only partial salary in bitcoins, then the employer needs to make multiple payments each month.

This! Seriously cool service!

[niko]

I get it you pay 24% on the currency fee, when doing an exchange ? Paying 24% extra for bitcoins essentially makes them useless.

Indeed. That's why a business in Finland really can't sell bitcoins from their own pocket. For example, we provide an exchange for buying/selling bitcoins, but we are simply a brokering service. We do pay VAT, but it's only in the brokering fee.

Please clarify: is bitcoin trade taxed (as if coins were a commodity), or just the broker's fee?
If I buy 100 coins, do I pay 24% on top of the exchange rate as VAT, or only pay the tax on the broker's fee?

[Technomage]

Please clarify: is bitcoin trade taxed (as if coins were a commodity), or just the broker's fee? If I buy 100 coins, do I pay 24% on top of the exchange rate as VAT, or only pay the tax on the broker's fee?

VAT is the responsibility of the seller. We sell a brokering service, which means that the VAT is included only in the brokering fee. When we are payed, either with EUR or BTC, we find a counterpart from the exchanges or from our own orderpool, and match them. That way the VAT is not a big issue for us.

For non-professional sellers it's not necessarily an issue either. The limit is 8000€ in sales before you must pay VAT in Finland. Below that, you don't. But if you're a professional seller of bitcoins in Finland, you'll going to find it extremely difficult to do that while remaining in legal territory. That's why we don't do that.

[Lethn]

Looks like Finland is the place to go if you want to set up a legitimate company that takes Bitcoin.

LOL most of the companies I own have some bitcoin reserves or do trade with bitcoin.

But my main operative company in Finland can not yet accept bitcoin, due to legal/tax concerns. The Finnish invention is that since Bitcoin is a commodity, it is subject to 24% VAT.

Go to Estonia rather. That is a land of the free. In their language: "Eesti Vabariik" = Free State of Estonia.

Well that sucks ;( Guess I was wrong then, looks like we've got some more waiting to do before we see any real move by the big national governments to accept Bitcoin.

[rpietila]

For non-professional sellers it's not necessarily an issue either. The limit is 8000€ in sales before you must pay VAT in Finland. Below that, you don't. But if you're a professional seller of bitcoins in Finland, you'll going to find it extremely difficult to do that while remaining in legal territory. That's why we don't do that.

If you sell your own used stuff (such as silver coins).. there is a € 5,000 tax waiver on profits, so that helps the capital gains tax issue. I think bitcoins should qualify.

VAT is only for professionals. If you just sell your own stash, no need to care. If you want to be sure, sell to a non-Finnish entity.

But yes, kudos for setting up Bittipörssi despite the tax hassle. I would have quit