Why is MPOE worth so much?

[ineededausername]

Shareholders are being paid 50-500 satoshis per share per month, with each share being worth around 72k satoshis currently.  That works out to, on average, around 250/72000 (let's be optimistic...) = a third of a percent per month.  Seeing as S.DICE and other securities are paying at least 5 times that, why the hell is anyone buying S.MPOE?  Is there a part of the contract I am missing?

[MPOE-PR]

It's been a topic of wonder/fascination for MP too. But incidentally, weren't you offering him some shares to short? What became of that?

Anyway, S.MPOE paid about half what S.DICE paid, over about the same interval.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Shareholders are being paid 50-500 satoshis per share per month, with each share being worth around 72k satoshis currently.  That works out to, on average, around 250/72000 (let's be optimistic...) = a third of a percent per month.  Seeing as S.DICE and other securities are paying at least 5 times that, why the hell is anyone buying S.MPOE?  Is there a part of the contract I am missing?

Because you don't just look at the dividends when evaluating assets.

[Peter Lambert]

Shareholders are being paid 50-500 satoshis per share per month, with each share being worth around 72k satoshis currently.  That works out to, on average, around 250/72000 (let's be optimistic...) = a third of a percent per month.  Seeing as S.DICE and other securities are paying at least 5 times that, why the hell is anyone buying S.MPOE?  Is there a part of the contract I am missing?

S.MPOE and S.DICE are different companies, with different risk factors. The market seems to think that MPOE has a lower risk than DICE.

[MPOE-PR]

I think it is overvalued. But I also think 99% of the assets are overvalued :/

Well that's easy to do when you've blown all your BTC on trying to close out your willful exposure to Bitcoin's most overvalued asset to date.

[JordanL]

I think it is overvalued. But I also think 99% of the assets are overvalued :/

Well that's easy to do when you've blown all your BTC on trying to close out your willful exposure to Bitcoin's most overvalued asset to date.

Fill me in? Which asset are you referring to?  (inquiring minds and all that)

[Peter Lambert]

What I am saying is, in BTC land it is hard to find a company who can get returns faster than BTC is going up in value. Asicminer, who makes BTC might be the exception.

Things like s.dice might see their volume go down significantly if BTC hits $10,000. Asicminer will still mine BTC no matter what the price is.

My attack was not at MPOE but at all assets that might lose volume as the BTC price goes to the moon.

BTW I'm very bullish, and that makes me look at things differently than most maybe.

The decrease in volume as prices rise at places like satoshidice and mpoe is yet to be seen.

Asicminer will still mine BTC, but the amount they get depends on the difficulty, and the difficulty tends to go up.

[kakobrekla]

What I am saying is, in BTC land it is hard to find a company who can get returns faster than BTC is going up in value.

Funny you mention that in this very thread. S.MPOE went from like ~0.0005 to ~0.0007 while BTC went from 12 to 40 something. I guess its hard for you to find even when it bites you in the ass.

[MPOE-PR]

Fill me in? Which asset are you referring to?  (inquiring minds and all that)

He ran the largest volume pirate pass-through (although it is disputed exactly how much of that volume was self trading). Bear in mind that PPTs were something like half to three quarters of Global Scam Exchange volume at the time. He says he's satisfied/settled claims against him resulting from that out of pocket, nobody has so far come forth to claim different so prima facie that claim stands. That led to an usagi-style meltdown followed by a half year's vacation or so, which'd suggest he was pretty nearly wiped in the adventure (wouldn't be the only one with pirate, of course).

If you go through the original S.DICE announcement you can see he's been spewing bs about it since roughly August. I'd say a case of personal investment, kinda hard to admit to being wrong etc. He does try his best to go about it underhandedly, creating knots of nonsense like "I'm bullish on BTC so that's why solid company A with a history and good management is no good whereas proven incompetence B is king & queen" which probably appear defensible to him - at least if one doesn't go looking past the surface.

Basically MPEx unapologetically ate a number of people's lunches. We did it publicly, insultingly and mercilessly. There be some sore butts left littering the landscape afterwards as you'd expect. His is one.

[PsychoticBoy]

I think it is overvalued. But I also think 99% of the assets are overvalued :/

Well that's easy to do when you've blown all your BTC on trying to close out your willful exposure to Bitcoin's most overvalued asset to date.

Fill me in? Which asset are you referring to?  (inquiring minds and all that)

I'm going to guess lending money to Pirate but it is hard to say as I have been involved with or invested into just about everything good or bad in bitcoin land in the last 2 years.

What I am saying is, in BTC land it is hard to find a company who can get returns faster than BTC is going up in value. Asicminer, who makes BTC might be the exception.

Things like s.dice might see their volume go down significantly if BTC hits $10,000. Asicminer will still mine BTC no matter what the price is.

My attack was not at MPOE but at all assets that might lose volume as the BTC price goes to the moon.

BTW I'm very bullish, and that makes me look at things differently than most maybe.

Isn't that a little hypocrite Goat, since back in the good old GLBSE days you issued more crappy worthless assets than whole MPEX has to offer.

[Peter Lambert]

I only bought into AsicMiner with much coin, the rest including s.dice does not look like a long term good investment to me. Will people who bought at the s.dice ipo price ever get it back in dividends?

This is a bit off-topic.

IPO price: 0.0032 btc, current price: 0.0051, How much have they already gotten from dividends? something like 0.000644, or 20% in dividends in six months. Why are you so obsessed with getting the initial investment back as dividends? The share price has gone up, the investment is worth more now than at the IPO.

You know, there are companies that give no dividends, right? Why would anybody buy one of those, they would never get their investment back!

[MPOE-PR]

Isn't that a little hypocrite Goat, since back in the good old GLBSE days you issued more crappy worthless assets than whole MPEX has to offer.

Not quite. GLBSE was like 50k BTC. MPEx is over 1.25 mn BTC currently. If you also figure the 5 vs 50 BTC/USD ratio that adds another order of magnitude to the difference (the third).

[Peter Lambert]

Isn't that a little hypocrite Goat, since back in the good old GLBSE days you issued more crappy worthless assets than whole MPEX has to offer.

Not quite. GLBSE was like 50k BTC. MPEx is over 1.25 mn BTC currently. If you also figure the 5 vs 50 BTC/USD ratio that adds another order of magnitude to the difference (the third).

I don't think you understood what you quoted. Goat issued more crappy, worthless assets (some positive value) than the whole MPEX has to offer (no crappy, worthless assets there).

[MPOE-PR]

I don't think you understood what you quoted. Goat issued more crappy, worthless assets (some positive value) than the whole MPEX has to offer (no crappy, worthless assets there).

Indeed on re-read I see your point. My bad.

BTW anyone who is a seller thinks their assets are overvalued. Why else would MPOE (andf all others) sell at a set price? Cuz they think it is a good deal.

Actually MP sold in an attempt to create a real market for Bitcoin financials (this is quite obvious especially if you consider the way original shares were allocated, and their pricing at the time). But that aside the point probably stands in general.

[Peter Lambert]

BTW anyone who is a seller thinks their assets are overvalued. Why else would MPOE (andf all others) sell at a set price? Cuz they think it is a good deal.

AsicMiner needed to get capital tp make hardware. S.dice does not need capital to make anything, he admitted he is just cashing out.

People sell because of the time value of money. Evoorhees could have held onto the shares of the company and gotten the money in the future, or he could sell shares and have the money now, which he can then use for other things. An investor holding money he does not need right now can let it sit and stay constant, or he can invest where he thinks it will be worth more in the future. Thus the trade benefits both parties, the share issuer gets money right now, the share buyer gets money in the future.

[El Cabron]

BTW anyone who is a seller thinks their assets are overvalued. Why else would MPOE (andf all others) sell at a set price? Cuz they think it is a good deal.

AsicMiner needed to get capital tp make hardware. S.dice does not need capital to make anything, he admitted he is just cashing out.

People sell because of the time value of money. Evoorhees could have held onto the shares of the company and gotten the money in the future, or he could sell shares and have the money now, which he can then use for other things. An investor holding money he does not need right now can let it sit and stay constant, or he can invest where he thinks it will be worth more in the future. Thus the trade benefits both parties, the share issuer gets money right now, the share buyer gets money in the future.

You assume he could get .0032 or whatever per share in the future, but that is an assumption you are claiming as a fact.

There is no guarantee this stock will be worth more than null in 1 month.

[rpietila]

Can you, or anyone else tell me, what is the surest and most convenient way to short the crap out of MPEx? What I am thinking is to issue naked contracts that pay out the MPEx dividends, crash the market, and buyback (or no). My analysis shows that the BTC price will in most scenarios outperform MPEx anyway, and there is no possibility of a short squeeze as I don't even claim these to represent any MPEx shares with voting rights, (not that there was any to begin with). See my discussion with MPOE-PR at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=154258.0

[MPOE-PR]

Can you, or anyone else tell me, what is the surest and most convenient way to short the crap out of MPEx? What I am thinking is to issue naked contracts that pay out the MPEx dividends, crash the market, and buyback (or no). My analysis shows that the BTC price will in most scenarios outperform MPEx anyway, and there is no possibility of a short squeeze as I don't even claim these to represent any MPEx shares with voting rights, (not that there was any to begin with). See my discussion with MPOE-PR at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=154258.0

If you're a large enough trader on MPEx to have margin you can just borrow the shares. If you're not you could probably still come to an arrangement with some of the holders to borrow the shares (except if you have no WoT rating, in which case as I've said countless times you are not part of Bitcoin trading/finance). Finally, perhaps your broker can help you, if you have one and enough of a relationship/credit with them.

You could try to short naked obviously, but you'd have to find someone to accept your nudity, which seems improbable, since as far as anyone can discern you're nobody with nothing at all.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Can you, or anyone else tell me, what is the surest and most convenient way to short the crap out of MPEx? What I am thinking is to issue naked contracts that pay out the MPEx dividends, crash the market, and buyback (or no). My analysis shows that the BTC price will in most scenarios outperform MPEx anyway, and there is no possibility of a short squeeze as I don't even claim these to represent any MPEx shares with voting rights, (not that there was any to begin with). See my discussion with MPOE-PR at:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=154258.0

You could buy put options on bitfunder (but there's no options or much volume ATM): https://bitfunder.com/asset/G.MPOE

[rpietila]

You could try to short naked obviously, but you'd have to find someone to accept your nudity, which seems improbable,

At least I am conscious of and frank about (the prospect of) my nudity. Not everyone is.

since as far as anyone can discern you're nobody with nothing at all.

THIS is so obvious that how come it could have slipped my mind...

Be kind to your inferiors, MP. If their relative growth rate is higher than yours, everybody investing in you loses money, relative to investing in the newcomers. My bitcoin-business valuation is 1/350 of yours and it seriously considers raising funding by imitating YOUR payouts, while keeping its own shares and profits.