BEWARE Bitmain S7/S9 failures and lack of warranty

[Finksy]

Yes this is another bitmain warranty thread, to serve as a buyer beware for anyone looking to spend $1000's on an investment in their miners at this time.

I purchased some B1 S7's in August (and 7x more in the months/batches afterwards).  They didn't ship until October (like everyone else, this was a piss-off, especially after not receiving any real compensation).  In December, 2 months after receiving them and getting them online, one of them caught fire.  It was being powered by a server PSU, using all 10x PCIe cables (as Bitmain makes sure in warranty info), the server PSU was a dual DPS-2000BB (DPS-4K setup) and was powering 2 of the S7's as well as an S5 at the time.  The only machine that burned was the one B1 S7.  So I contact Bitmain USA first (hoping to save some time on shipping, etc) with an explanation of the problem and pictures.  They eventually referred me to Bitmain repair China, as they wouldn't handle it.  So I send the same information off to Bitmain China, who try to tell me it was past warranty (even though it was within the 90 days from when they actually shipped, though they marked the order as shipped 10 days prior to them actually shipping...), but eventually conceded since I had made contact prior to that warranty period expiring.  So after some back and forth, I finally get the package sent off February 10th.  I sent it with a service that did not have tracking, which I admit at this time was a bad idea.  My reasoning was I didn't want to dump any more money than required into this, given the horror stories I have read about Bitmain's refusing warranty, and the fact that they had already tried weaseling their way out of this claim before even receiving the miner.

So fast forward 5 more months, and I just received notice today after constantly bugging them about finding my package, that it did arrive over a month ago and they received it.  They have now advised me that they do not cover burnt boards under their warranty, and that they would offer me $20 off the purchase of an S9.  I am lost for words...

Here are some pictures of the miner as I found it, running alongside 8x other S7's, 12x other S5's, all off the same style of PSU (IBM 2880W and DPS-4K PSU's), none of which had ANY problems of the sort:





This failure did NOT occur due to internet shortage
This failure did NOT occur due to PSU problems (as attested by the fact that the other 2x Antminers on the SAME PSU had no problems whatsoever)
This failure COULD have caused my building to burn down
This failure was NOT covered by Bitmain's warranty despite it being un-preventable and within their allotted warranty period.

Buyer beware, Bitmain's equipment can fail unexpectedly and without clear cause in a dangerous way, and they will not take responsibility for it.  My failure rate was 1 in 9 S7's, or 11.11%.  I would not trust them with your investment, as it only takes 1 failed miner to lose all chance of ROI.  The S9 is built almost identically to the S7, and could be subject to the same risks that caused this miner to fail.  I hope others come forward with their failures as well to bring the issue to light.

More pictures of the boards after disassembly:

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[Finksy]

There have been some concerned tossed around about the potential quality of the boards used in the IBM 2880W and DPS-4k PSU's.  This was on a DPS-4K PSU along with another S7 and an S5, and drew enough power to eventually trip the breaker.  If this isn't a testament to how much thermal load the circuit boards can tolerate then I don't know what is, who knows how much power those boards were drawing when they shorted out, but it was certainly a hell of a lot more than they were rated for as shown by their self-destruction.

[philipma1957]

to go along with my studies of gear.  under clock does help

my evidence of the s-9

my batch 1 was rated at freq 650 runs pretty well at freq 600 fans set to 90%

my batch 2 was rated at freq 600 runs pretty well at freq 600 fans set to 90%

but monster external fans needed


my batch 4 was rated at freq 600  runs like silk quiet cool but setting is  freq 462 a severe undeclock  this allows for low speed quiet fan action I am set at 35%


I propose that all s-9s should be underclocked for safety if you have them as I think they are pretty hazardous at full speeds.

but of all the thread this one below is really frightening.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1522621.0  this looks like even an underclock would not have helped

[elrippo]

WOW!!! This is really bad luck!!!

[Finksy]

to go along with my studies of gear.  under clock does help

my evidence of the s-9

my batch 1 was rated at freq 650 runs pretty well at freq 600 fans set to 90%

my batch 2 was rated at freq 600 runs pretty well at freq 600 fans set to 90%

but monster external fans needed


my batch 4 was rated at freq 600  runs like silk quiet cool but setting is  freq 462 a severe undeclock  this allows for low speed quiet fan action I am set at 35%


I propose that all s-9s should be underclocked for safety if you have them as I think they are pretty hazardous at full speeds.

That should be up to Bitmain, not the end-user.  Otherwise they are just like Spondoolies with the SP20 and selling us over-inflated numbers, which is extremely unethical.  I for one refuse to under-clock brand new gear and diminish any chance I may have had to ROI due to the manufacturer's (lack of) warranty policy and principles.  That is why I will not buy any more Bitmain gear.  You can barely ROI with it while using their published information, how the fuck do you have a chance if you have to under-clock it before even spinning it up?  Phil I know you have seen the light before and have said it yourself, but you were tempted by their new gear.  They are shady as fuck and don't deserve our business, by buying their gear we are enabling them to keep these shady practices up and artificially drive up the price of hardware, which is also harming new players in the game.

[philipma1957]

to go along with my studies of gear.  under clock does help

my evidence of the s-9

my batch 1 was rated at freq 650 runs pretty well at freq 600 fans set to 90%

my batch 2 was rated at freq 600 runs pretty well at freq 600 fans set to 90%

but monster external fans needed


my batch 4 was rated at freq 600  runs like silk quiet cool but setting is  freq 462 a severe undeclock  this allows for low speed quiet fan action I am set at 35%


I propose that all s-9s should be underclocked for safety if you have them as I think they are pretty hazardous at full speeds.

That should be up to Bitmain, not the end-user.  Otherwise they are just like Spondoolies with the SP20 and selling us over-inflated numbers, which is extremely unethical.  I for one refuse to under-clock brand new gear and diminish any chance I may have had to ROI due to the manufacturer's (lack of) warranty policy and principles.  That is why I will not buy any more Bitmain gear.

I understand you.  they are pretty hot boxes with lots of power.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1512186.0

4 s-9's and 1 s-7

the s-9's are all clocked to  freq 600 fans set to 90%

technically the batch ones are downclocked as they are rated to freq 650.  which is not happening until  the cooler fall weather.


the fans needed to keep gear close to cool not cool close to cool.

[Unacceptable]

to go along with my studies of gear.  under clock does help

my evidence of the s-9

my batch 1 was rated at freq 650 runs pretty well at freq 600 fans set to 90%

my batch 2 was rated at freq 600 runs pretty well at freq 600 fans set to 90%

but monster external fans needed


my batch 4 was rated at freq 600  runs like silk quiet cool but setting is  freq 462 a severe undeclock  this allows for low speed quiet fan action I am set at 35%


I propose that all s-9s should be underclocked for safety if you have them as I think they are pretty hazardous at full speeds.

That should be up to Bitmain, not the end-user.  Otherwise they are just like Spondoolies with the SP20 and selling us over-inflated numbers, which is extremely unethical.  I for one refuse to under-clock brand new gear and diminish any chance I may have had to ROI due to the manufacturer's (lack of) warranty policy and principles.  That is why I will not buy any more Bitmain gear.  You can barely ROI with it while using their published information, how the fuck do you have a chance if you have to under-clock it before even spinning it up?  Phil I know you have seen the light before and have said it yourself, but you were tempted by their new gear.  They are shady as fuck and don't deserve our business, by buying their gear we are enabling them to keep these shady practices up and artificially drive up the price of hardware, which is also harming new players in the game.

Man that was an EPIC failure!!! I have not seen electronics burned like that in a LONG LONG time,very sorry for your loss 

But...you guys are the last "at home" bitcoin miners,unless the diff drops or the btc prices goes up ALOT (like to $900-1200).

The halving is in 3 days & btc has not risen dramatically for a few days now,it could change but I doubt it.

Best of luck Finsky 

[sidehack]

you guys are the last "at home" bitcoin miners

No offense, but I sincerely hope that's not the case. Or at least not for much longer.

[adaseb]

So what happened exactly? One of the heatsinks fell off and one of the ASIC chips started burning ?

Maybe that's why they started showing the ASIC temps in the S9, so if it goes over a certain value, the miner shuts off.

[Ch3wbacca]

This is the same trick KNC Miner pulls. They do this in order to maximise THEIR ROI while once released to the public, they leave the crumbs for you guys to compete. This is the reason why i do not like to mine anymore unless you are located in a country with good facilities and cheap electricity.

[Finksy]

So what happened exactly? One of the heatsinks fell off and one of the ASIC chips started burning ?

Maybe that's why they started showing the ASIC temps in the S9, so if it goes over a certain value, the miner shuts off.

I really don't know  

I always did the shake test before hooking miners up, I had one that had loose heatsinks that needed to be re-applied with thermal adhesive (It was a B6 S7)

If one of the fans failed, one would think the controller would have shut the miner down once chips hit >80*C.  I'm not sure how many temperature sensors there are, but I would have thought the same would happen if one heatsink came loose in the middle and overheated, though I could be wrong.  As I mentioned in the S9 thread, I sent the controller and 3 hashblades out for warranty in February, and the only explanation I received (yesterday) was "Sorry ,burnt board are not cover in warranty ."

[not.you]

It is a bit disturbing how it failed in a "burn down the house" sort of way, but hardware is going to fail.  All of it.  No matter how well made too, it will eventually fail.  The real warning here I think is the inability to provide the warranty and the cavalier manner in which they treated the whole warranty claim.  That's my 2 bits anyway.

EDIT: I understand also the idea that they don't want to warranty burnt boards because they can't be sure just what people are doing in terms of what PSU's they use, how many connectors, and so on.  But in this case I think there is a strong enough case for the failure being the miner and not the PSU or the end user.

[Unacceptable]

you guys are the last "at home" bitcoin miners

No offense, but I sincerely hope that's not the case. Or at least not for much longer.

None taken,just being kinda sarcastic.

But home mining is just about done,unless like phil you have free electric(or almost free) 

[Unacceptable]

that's very bad luck
i have plan to buying 2-3 antminer S9 in the end of this year..
i think i will focus at build GPU mining hardware than buying antminer

"Sorry ,burnt board are not cover in warranty ."

the guarantee not cover board? so which the part of guarantee ?

I went back to GPU mining,ATM it is more profitable,soon not soo much.But no ASIC war crap to worry about & GPU's resale value hold pretty well 

[dogie]

Interested on your thoughts on why it appears that three boards burnt simultaneously and separately? Didn't stop mining during overheat, controller issue, OC'ing or your PSU giving a funky '12V'?

[Finksy]

Interested on your thoughts on why it appears that three boards burnt simultaneously and separately? Didn't stop mining during overheat, controller issue, OC'ing or your PSU giving a funky '12V'?

Honestly I have no idea.  The only thing that occurs to me is that it would have to be controller related somehow, otherwise the overheat protection should have kicked it off.  Same goes for a fan failure, loose heatsink, etc. If it was a power regulator or something board-level, it should have been isolated to one board.  But all 3 boards burned from the inside out, due to what appeared to be shorting. Something happened in which the over-heat protection did not do its job. If it was interruption in internet, I would have seen it with the other miners (or at the very least seen a disruption in hashrate at the pool).

As for 12VDC input voltage, I was using 2x DPS-2000BB (DPS4K setup) together that was powering the failed miner, another B1 S7 as well as an S5 at the time.  None of the others suffered from any kind of failure, and are still hashing to this day.

I understand hardware failures happen, it's life.  I'm just frustrated about their poor communication, late shipping of the miner, trying to claim it was outside of warranty because they falsely marked the order as shipped ~10 days before a label was even created (and in this case it would have made the difference), that they mishandled and lost my package for a month or more (and I had to continuously email them to look for it, that they are denying warranty on a machine that clearly suffered catastrophic failure not related to normal usage and that they feel that offering a $20 (or 1%) discount somehow rectifies the fact that I lost over $1500 on a machine that failed inside the warranty period (in no specific order).

the guarantee not cover board? so which the part of guarantee ?

That's what I would like to know as well.

It is a bit disturbing how it failed in a "burn down the house" sort of way, but hardware is going to fail.  All of it.  No matter how well made too, it will eventually fail.  The real warning here I think is the inability to provide the warranty and the cavalier manner in which they treated the whole warranty claim.  That's my 2 bits anyway.

EDIT: I understand also the idea that they don't want to warranty burnt boards because they can't be sure just what people are doing in terms of what PSU's they use, how many connectors, and so on.  But in this case I think there is a strong enough case for the failure being the miner and not the PSU or the end user.

Agreed.  I mean, even if they would have shipped me an S7 7 months after mine failed, and I still had not a snowball's chance in hell of a ROI, at least it would have been an act of good faith.  In this case they are completely copping out and it's infuriating, especially after wasting so much of my time.  This clearly shows VERY poor ethics on their part.

Realistically, IMO they should send me out an S9, I would even pay a difference of ~$500 or slightly more to offset the fact that I did earn some mining revenue from the S7, but I still wouldn't be as far ahead as if that S7 would have been hashing the entire time.  To make matters worse, I was solo-mining at the time and didn't want to give up, so it could have made the difference between solving another block between then and the halving, although that's getting pretty far into suppositions.

[bitcoinbarron]

This angers me so much, why cant Bitmain just admit they cocked up

seriously bad luck dude

[traxor]

I am so sorry for what happened to your miner.

Way back in the day, when I bought my first product from Bitmain, I remember being well aware from others here on this forum, that if I by chance received a faulty product, I'd be on my own.

I've seen elsewhere on the forum, where people were bragging about their warranty coverage -- and was hoping that things had changed.

Personally, I am shocked  that they are not standing behind their warranty -- especially with such a knowledgable miner as yourself.

Hopefully, someone at Bitmain stumbles across this thread -- and "fixes" things for you.

Thanks for posting about such an unfortunate turn of events -- I'm glad that the fire was contained and didn't cause greater damage.

[in2tactics]

I am really impressed that neither miner next to the burned up one were affected. In fact, I am impressed the whole house did not burn down.

[dogie]

I am really impressed that neither miner next to the burned up one were affected. In fact, I am impressed the whole house did not burn down.

Generally the materials used won't support combustion so unless something really catastrophic happens, the worst case should be as pictured. I don't remember what the certification series is called but I think boards are meant to self extinguish within 10 seconds or so.