Bitcoins existence has increased the spread of child pornography

[MayorMccheese]

To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.

Is that what you're getting from me?! That's ... amazing

[CIYAM]

This is a seriously flawed topic.

Bitcoin's economy is not even a sizeable fraction of the USD or any other major currency so to try and imply that it has somehow had some major affect upon something like "child porn" (with zero evidence) is just crap.

If the OP has actual "proof" that Bitcoin is used more than USD or other major currencies then please provide it.

[MayorMccheese]

This is a seriously flawed topic.

Bitcoin's economy is not even a sizeable fraction of the USD or any other major currency so to try and imply that it has somehow had some major affect upon something like "child porn" (with zero evidence) is just crap.

1. Child porn has lower market cap than bitcoin.
2. plenty of evidence.
During his nine years of offending, he forced victims to pose with horrific slogans advertising his foul images, which he sold for Bitcoins on a notorious paedophile website on the dark web - the encrypted version of the internet.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620004/Britain-s-worst-paedophile-Richard-Huckle-admits-scores-attack-children.html#ixzz4Dq9N5AKA
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https://www.google.com/search?q=bitcoin+pedophile&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[EthanB]

To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.

Is that what you're getting from me?! That's ... amazing

What I'm getting from you is avoidance..
I've asked you at least 3-times at this point, What laws is bitcoin not currently abiding by that other currencies abide by which make them less likely to be used for illegal activity (e.g. Child-porn)?

I'm not trying to be clever, I can not think of any and I'd like to know if there are any.

[CIYAM]

During his nine years of offending, he forced victims to pose with horrific slogans advertising his foul images, which he sold for Bitcoins on a notorious paedophile website on the dark web - the encrypted version of the internet.

And where are all the links to people that have sold child porn for USD (or you seemingly have *none* of those at all)?

If you want to be taken seriously then why not try and be honest for a start (you are not)?

Yes you are trying to be clever because you are trying to insinuate that no child porn has been sold for USD (and I don't think that anyone on this forum is going to believe that).

[MayorMccheese]

To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.

Is that what you're getting from me?! That's ... amazing

What I'm getting from you is avoidance..
I've asked you at least 3-times at this point, What laws is bitcoin not currently abiding by that other currencies abide by which make them less likely to be used for illegal activity (e.g. Child-porn)?

AML/KYC laws, for starters. But Bitcoin is more than a currency, it is also a payment processor. So this: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-security-financing-idUSKCN0ZL1RH is another step in the right direction.

I'm not sure why you've fixating on this, I merely pointed out that Bitcoin is not exempt from currency laws by virtue of being decentralized.
Which part of that don't you agree with?

You enjoy taking statements out of context (like me calling out Rodeo for being inconsistent), and asking me to defend them.

ELY5:
1. I didn't suggest that child porn would vanish if Bitcoin complied with laws applicable to other currencies.
2. I said that Bitcoin is not exempt from those laws by virtue of being decentralized.

Do you see the difference, or should I clarify further?

[jak3]

should terrorists and child pornography are spreading only because of bitcoin.i don't think so they where present before it and now atleast we know which system and how they are dealing so it gives a chance to stop them

[EthanB]

To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.

Is that what you're getting from me?! That's ... amazing

What I'm getting from you is avoidance..
I've asked you at least 3-times at this point, What laws is bitcoin not currently abiding by that other currencies abide by which make them less likely to be used for illegal activity (e.g. Child-porn)?

AML/KYC laws, for starters. But Bitcoin is more than a currency, it is also a payment processor. So this: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-security-financing-idUSKCN0ZL1RH is another step in the right direction.

I'm not sure why you've fixating on this, I merely pointed out that Bitcoin is not exempt from currency laws by virtue of being decentralized.
Which part of that don't you agree with?

I agree it isn't exempt by virtue of being decentralized. Although I also notice that the most reputable bitcoin exchanges, at least half a dozen follow AML / KYC compliance. These laws can't be pushed into the bitcoin protocol feasibly, so it makes sense that these exchanges are compliant. Any exchange that is not compliant is subject to the AML / KYC laws within their jurisdiction. So where's the problem?

Do you believe that it needs to be centralized in order for it to be properly regulated, that bitcoin mining need be AML / KYC Complicit, or that countries be more strict with their approach towards bitcoin and it's components?

What exactly is your gripe about the state of bitcoin in relation to KYC / AML laws?
The reuter's link you sent was decent, but it seems like it doesn't actually address the issue, it simply minimizes it or makes it slightly more inconvenient to perform. While I agree this is a step in the right direction, those regulations were for only EU companies unless I'm mistaken.. So unless we can enforce the same rules globally, there will always be a country that is a Laundering-Haven.

[CIYAM]

Seriously - if you think all transactions in the world should be traceable then you surely think that the major focus should be upon uncut diamonds and precious metals (they are of far more significance than Bitcoin is).

So once you have succeeded in preventing all other money laundering then maybe we look at Bitcoin (as there is no evidence to suggest that Bitcoin is used much for that at all).

It is pretty clear that the idiots making these posts are working for authorities (who don't mind staying corrupt but just don't want to risk losing power).

[MayorMccheese]

To say we have no right to regulate monitoring/prosecuting, yet those who monitor/prosecute can regulate all that we do.. Is just a damn scary idea to me.

Is that what you're getting from me?! That's ... amazing

What I'm getting from you is avoidance..
I've asked you at least 3-times at this point, What laws is bitcoin not currently abiding by that other currencies abide by which make them less likely to be used for illegal activity (e.g. Child-porn)?

AML/KYC laws, for starters. But Bitcoin is more than a currency, it is also a payment processor. So this: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-security-financing-idUSKCN0ZL1RH is another step in the right direction.

I'm not sure why you've fixating on this, I merely pointed out that Bitcoin is not exempt from currency laws by virtue of being decentralized.
Which part of that don't you agree with?

I agree it isn't exempt by virtue of being decentralized. Although I also notice that the most reputable bitcoin exchanges, at least half a dozen follow AML / KYC compliance. These laws can't be pushed into the bitcoin protocol feasibly, so it makes sense that these exchanges are compliant. Any exchange that is not compliant is subject to the AML / KYC laws within their jurisdiction. So where's the problem?

Of course "These laws can't be pushed into the bitcoin protocol feasibly," that's the gist of Bitcoin's appeal.
And while there are exchanges that comply with AML / KYC laws within their jurisdictions, that's a small comfort -- Bitcoin is borderless, so compliance with Somali laws doesn't help me much in US.

Do you believe that it needs to be centralized in order for it to be properly regulated, that bitcoin mining need be AML / KYC Complicit, or that countries be more strict with their approach towards bitcoin and it's components?

Neither. Centralized Bitcoin is grossly insecure, and, as such, a pointless exercise in waste and goldbergian complexity.
And I don't think that countries *should* tighten Bitcoin regulations, but if we fail to police ourselves, there *will be* stricter regulations.
Do you not see the difference between "should" and "will"?

What exactly is your gripe about the state of bitcoin in relation to KYC / AML laws?
The reuter's link you sent was decent, but it seems like it doesn't actually address the issue, it simply minimizes it or makes it slightly more inconvenient to perform. While I agree this is a step in the right direction, those regulations were for only EU companies unless I'm mistaken.. So unless we can enforce the same rules globally, there will always be a country that is a Laundering-Haven.

Again, you are asking me to defend a statement that I have never made.
Again:

ELY5:
1. I didn't suggest that child porn would vanish if Bitcoin complied with laws applicable to other currencies.
2. I said that Bitcoin is not exempt from those laws by virtue of being decentralized.

I have no "gripe about the state of bitcoin in relation to KYC / AML laws." I said that decentralization does not make it exempt from those laws, thus is "neither here nor there." Centralization is irrelevant to this discussion. It's a non-issue, and should have never been brought up by you.

How else can I explain this? What remains unclear? Please point to a single specific thing I could clarify, phrase it as a single question, and I will try to answer it so that we could move on.
Now then:

[CIYAM]

Complete nonsense posted above.

There are simply "no universally agreed upon laws" so you can't try and apply such a non-existent concept to Bitcoin.
(are you a government lacky of some sort?)

Again - where are these universal laws about gold?
(surely they would form the basis of what you are wanting to see)

[EthanB]

What do you think should be done to make bitcoin less appealing or unusable for illegal activity such as child-porn?

You brought up a valid point about the non-profit reporting incidents they sniff out, and I'm just looking for elaboration & collaboration on how we take it far enough to police ourselves, so it is not imposed upon us. It's unfortunate they cannot enforce the laws of local jurisdictions, but only report it to undoubtedly over-worked law-enforcement.

How can we act upon their intelligence better as a community / currency ?
What can we do to police ourselves?

I'd hate to hear arguments against everything, and answers to nothing.

[CIYAM]

What are the people that find gold doing in this regard?

Why are you expecting that Bitcoin should have more responsibility than *any* fiat currency that exists?

Basically you should be calling for the end of the internet as those nasty images you are complaining about are sent using it!
(oh - not going to blame the internet?)

[Velkro]

It is sickening that this type of stuff happens, but bitcoin can not be blamed for this. There are enough other methods to get money switching hands, even more private ones like fiat cash.

Exactly, blamind bitcoin here is insane, its not even anonymous way of payment. Its very not anonymous opposite to FIAT which is almost 100% anonymous.
Bitcoin was blamed for drugs first now child porn :/

[BitcoinSupremo]

The government uses as a pretext bitcoin to associate it with all of the shi t that happens in dark net or deep web (call it like you like). The government try to make bitcoin look bad as they don't want the people to have full control of their money, they just want to have persons under control by using banks which can tell you that you cannot spend for example 1 mln USD overnight without a very good explanation. With Bitcoin you can do that and no one will ask a thing to you.

All of the sh it of dark net used to exist in clear net before then when TOR appeared around end of 2001 to 2003 all the online criminals moved to this platform. Government should try to stop criminals and not blame bitcoin if they choose to use it as a currency. Its not bitcoin fault, its the criminals fault.

[EthanB]

What are the people that find gold doing in this regard?

Why are you expecting that Bitcoin should have more responsibility than *any* fiat currency that exists?

Basically you should be calling for the end of the internet as those nasty images you are complaining about are sent using it!
(oh - not going to blame the internet?)

MayorMccheese is the one expecting these responsibilities, claiming that fiat has already enforced laws and refusing to reference what those laws are. I am just simply asking what, if anything, can be done to combat the pain-point of the thread.

[CIYAM]

MayorMccheese is the one expecting these responsibilities, claiming that fiat has already enforced laws and refusing to reference what those laws are. I am just simply asking what, if anything, can be done to combat the pain-point of the thread.

And what I am pointing out is that the relevance that Bitcoin has to "child porn" is about as much as say "PayPal" (although in all likelihood less).

So if PayPal aren't doing anything (specifically) then why does Bitcoin need to be doing something?

For the most part people who are buying or selling BTC are using exchanges that are actually quite regulated (so it is actually not at all comparable to the "wild west" of the US during the "gold rush").

To even create a topic with "child porn" in it just indicates that this topic is nonsense (perhaps the OP likes that sort of thing).

[RodeoX]

To me, all laws are just ideas a person made up. Ideas come and go and change with the culture. There is nothing backing laws other than our sense of what we think should be law. When slavery was law it was understood that other races were inferior and needed a master. Now we would consider freeing a souther slave as an heroic act and breaking the law as a good thing. We also consider the shooting rampage in Orlando to be the hideous act of a monster. But make no mistake, our great grandparents would have hoisted the shooter on their shoulders and paraded him around as a hero. He was the only person at the club that night obeying gods laws.

[Bitcotalk]

Because of its anonymity a lot of people are using it for their illegal wishes, but for that we do not have to blame bitcoin and the problem is not with bitcoin but the problem is with their minds, they because of their dirty mind try to use bitcoin for that reasons, besides this a lot of people are getting benefit from bitcoin and they are using it for fair means , so if bitcoin was harmed they will lose their incomes.

[EthanB]

MayorMccheese is the one expecting these responsibilities, claiming that fiat has already enforced laws and refusing to reference what those laws are. I am just simply asking what, if anything, can be done to combat the pain-point of the thread.

And what I am pointing out is that the relevance that Bitcoin has to "child porn" is about as much as say "PayPal" (although in all likelihood less).

So if PayPal aren't doing anything then why does Bitcoin need to be doing something?

For the most part people who are buying BTC are using exchanges that are actually quite regulated.

Bitcoin shouldn't have to change if Paypal, fiat and everything else is not held to the same regard. In fact fiat should be expected to go the extra mile because of the simple magnitude of which it is used.

That's why I told ya earlier we agree