I am a certified Anti-Money Laundering agent. (AMLCA)

[Benson Samuel]

By the way, Dwolla is included in the above analysis. They will need to answer for their money transmission service. They will no longer be able to pretend it's just Veridian...

Dwolla only does domestic money transfer, which is not regulated in the US or atleast was not at the time when they started.
California was the only state where they needed an MSB and they did not provide services there.

[1713277843]

1713277843

[1713277843]

1713277843

[Severian]

True, as long as you don't need to purchase them with actual USD.

In that scenario, Bitcoin will just become like the weed market in the US. It will be worth billions, the government will say its illegal but will be powerless to stop it except to prosecute whatever hapless souls run across the radar of those practicing the prosecutorial arts.

There's a saying by Lord Acton (of "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" fame):

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."

I think this is that fight. The banks and the government have already lost. I hope they surrender quickly and quietly but I doubt it.

[BTCINVESTOR]

By the way, Dwolla is included in the above analysis. They will need to answer for their money transmission service. They will no longer be able to pretend it's just Veridian...

Dwolla only does domestic money transfer, which is not regulated in the US or atleast was not at the time when they started.
California was the only state where they needed an MSB and they did not provide services there.

Doesn't matter if they are only "domestic". The definition of "Money Laundering" includes "erasing" or "obscuring" paper trail. If an institution can perform this action, regulatory hounds will follow. At least eventually. But remember, Dwolla is one of the favorite mechanisms to upload USD to Mt. Gox. That is fully international.

Please understand, I am a huge fan of Bitcoin. Huge. And I own a lot of them. This affects me in a big way.

[smith88]

Big changes are coming to the major exchanges. I can answer any questions regarding MSB requirements, state and federal. BitPay, Coinbase, and others will be required to obtain registration as well as licensure.

How quickly do you see these changes being implemented?  Only via US based exchanges?  How are international exchanges going to be handled (ei: blacklisted in US)?
I am assuming you are affiliated with some of the organizations applying these new regulations?  Were some laws passed recently?
Thanks for any info you can share, the better folks are educated the greater we'll see folks comply; as far as US customers.  I for one have been waiting for something like this to occur; I figured it was just a matter of time.

cheers.
(if you can't answer any of those questions and don't do so quickly; everybody will know what you are... cough cough... troll... cough cough)

The changes will come soon because here is how it works:

Any bank associated with an exchange or BitCoin payments operator is affected, for example: Coinbase has a contract with US Bank, a huge institution. US Bank will be very well versed in all of the upcoming regulations including the one issued by FinCEN today. (See the link in my other post) US Bank must report to FinCEN any relationship with a "money transmitter" or "money services business (MSB)" especially if they are considered "unlicensed" (state req) or "unregistered" (fed req). This means that Coinbase is going to receive high scrutiny immediately from their partnering institution!

Any time you want to attach a bona fide US money service, which specializes in moving US dollars, doesn't matter which, and that institution is a financial institution, meaning a bank, check casher, wiring service, or money transmitter, the rules will apply. It will be a certainty that purchasing BitCoins using any of these services will now get harder (or at least slower) soon. I don't care what "black market" or alternative routes there are, you will not see US institutions readily interfacing with them. Therein lies the challenge.

Excellent, thank you, article helped fill in questions.  Best to ya for informing us.  Makes sense, I am glad that we're going to see opportunity for exchanges to cooperate; rather than the entire deal being regulated out of the country all together.  This is a great stimuli to the economy; both locally and abroad.  I am also a huge fan of bitcoins as well as a few other.  Let's keep this party going and machine turning.

[BTCINVESTOR]

True, as long as you don't need to purchase them with actual USD.

In that scenario, Bitcoin will just become like the weed market in the US. It will be worth billions, the government will say its illegal but will be powerless to stop it except to prosecute whatever hapless souls run across the radar of those practicing the prosecutorial arts.

There's a saying by Lord Acton (of "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" fame):

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."

I think this is that fight. The banks and the government have already lost. I hope they surrender quickly and quietly but I doubt it.

Believe me, I agree with you, but we all want Bitcoin to grow in popularity. We all want it to be used everywhere. For the common consumer to have some, they will either have to buy them directly, mine them, or sell something to obtain them. If you remove the ability to simply buy them with USD, it could substantially limit serious investors in the platform. We want all new interested parties to jump in. I hope the major feeders can stay in business through the regulatory scrutiny so that more Americans can "buy in". Thanks for your replies. Important insights.

[Severian]

Please understand, I am a huge fan of Bitcoin. Huge. And I own a lot of them. This affects me in a big way.

A serious question: If I sell you a trinket for $500 and give you 10 bitcoins, do any Federal regulations come into play? It would be like a Craigslist sale or a flea market transaction.

[Benson Samuel]

By the way, Dwolla is included in the above analysis. They will need to answer for their money transmission service. They will no longer be able to pretend it's just Veridian...

Dwolla only does domestic money transfer, which is not regulated in the US or atleast was not at the time when they started.
California was the only state where they needed an MSB and they did not provide services there.

Doesn't matter if they are only "domestic". The definition of "Money Laundering" includes "erasing" or "obscuring" paper trail. If an institution can perform this action, regulatory hounds will follow. At least eventually. But remember, Dwolla is one of the favorite mechanisms to upload USD to Mt. Gox. That is fully international.

Please understand, I am a huge fan of Bitcoin. Huge. And I own a lot of them. This affects me in a big way.

Good stuff on the AML insight.

I strongly believe that Bitcoin is cleaner than paper money.

If anyone is going to make bitcoin illegal, they will need to make several current legislation's/ technologies illegal before we can get to bitcoin.

There may be a targeted net against certain bands of users sometime sooner than any kind of statement or regulation on Bitcoin's general usage.

[BTCINVESTOR]

Please understand, I am a huge fan of Bitcoin. Huge. And I own a lot of them. This affects me in a big way.

A serious question: If I sell you a trinket for $500 and give you 10 bitcoins, do any Federal regulations come into play? It would be like a Craigslist sale or a flea market transaction.

Point taken. I agree.

[BTCINVESTOR]

By the way, Dwolla is included in the above analysis. They will need to answer for their money transmission service. They will no longer be able to pretend it's just Veridian...

Dwolla only does domestic money transfer, which is not regulated in the US or atleast was not at the time when they started.
California was the only state where they needed an MSB and they did not provide services there.

Doesn't matter if they are only "domestic". The definition of "Money Laundering" includes "erasing" or "obscuring" paper trail. If an institution can perform this action, regulatory hounds will follow. At least eventually. But remember, Dwolla is one of the favorite mechanisms to upload USD to Mt. Gox. That is fully international.

Please understand, I am a huge fan of Bitcoin. Huge. And I own a lot of them. This affects me in a big way.

Good stuff on the AML insight.

I strongly believe that Bitcoin is cleaner than paper money.

If anyone is going to make bitcoin illegal, they will need to make several current legislation's/ technologies illegal before we can get to bitcoin.

There may be a targeted net against certain bands of users sometime sooner than any kind of statement or regulation on Bitcoin's general usage.

I personally believe that BitCoin will be entirely resistant to regulation in-and-of itself. I am an expert in the financial and payments industry. BitCoin, in my estimation, is one of the greatest financial forces unleashed in the history of time. We will see that bear out many fold in our lifetimes. Get as many of them as you possibly can. Now.

[BTCINVESTOR]

By the way, I am able to provide consultation as an expert in the industry. I can provide my credentials to parties with serious inquiries:

1FRom5KAz716sSKGddQna5wQK4TLC7X2CN

[jgarzik]

It always made sense that US Government would monitor and regulate gateways to/from US-Dollars (bitcoin exchanges, in this case).

I am curious about purely bitcoin e-Wallets:  users of this service can (a) deposit bitcoins, (b) send bitcoins to a specified bitcoin address, or (c) send bitcoins to another user of the service.  No USD involved at all.

Where do purely bitcoin e-Wallets fall, in the regulatory realm?

[BTCINVESTOR]

It always made sense that US Government would monitor and regulate gateways to/from US-Dollars (bitcoin exchanges, in this case).

I am curious about purely bitcoin e-Wallets:  users of this service can (a) deposit bitcoins, (b) send bitcoins to a specified bitcoin address, or (c) send bitcoins to another user of the service.  No USD involved at all.

Where do purely bitcoin e-Wallets fall, in the regulatory realm?

By the way, congrats on the new ASIC (jealous) bro...

In my estimation, e-Wallets are perfectly safe right now from government prying both implicitly and explicitly. They will go after the exchanges first. Anything connected to the US dollar -- they can squeeze that with existing policing infrastructure. BTC to BTC seems impervious to me right now. There are simply no mechanisms built to police it. Time will tell though, but I believe some of the earlier commenters are right that there will always be another "alternative route" to exchanging and/or storing your BTC value.

[BTCINVESTOR]

It always made sense that US Government would monitor and regulate gateways to/from US-Dollars (bitcoin exchanges, in this case).

I am curious about purely bitcoin e-Wallets:  users of this service can (a) deposit bitcoins, (b) send bitcoins to a specified bitcoin address, or (c) send bitcoins to another user of the service.  No USD involved at all.

Where do purely bitcoin e-Wallets fall, in the regulatory realm?

By the way, congrats on the new ASIC (jealous) bro...

In my estimation, e-Wallets are perfectly safe right now from government prying both implicitly and explicitly. They will go after the exchanges first. Anything connected to the US dollar -- they can squeeze that with existing policing infrastructure. BTC to BTC seems impervious to me right now. There are simply no mechanisms built to police it. Time will tell though, but I believe some of the earlier commenters are right that there will always be another "alternative route" to exchanging and/or storing your BTC value.

BTW, Jeff...You are always welcome to any information from me free of charge on here or any other way. (And that goes for any of the other Bitcoin devs) Just happy to know you. Contact me anytime. You guys are the front lines of a very important work.

[RoboTeddy]

What would happen if someone implemented a peer to peer currency exchange, as outlined here?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4L7xDNCmA&feature=youtu.be&t=24m57s

edit: a text description: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Ripple_currency_exchange

[jasinlee]

How would policing and or controlling of fiat come into play if the exchange is based in another country, but they have a large following in the US? Would there even be a way to stop them if they were based outside the country and they used methods of payment such as moneygram, WU, Wire transfers, or even credit/debit cards?

[flavius]

.....who cares?

[BTCINVESTOR]

What would happen if someone implemented a peer to peer currency exchange, as outlined here?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4L7xDNCmA&feature=youtu.be&t=24m57s

edit: a text description: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Ripple_currency_exchange

Ripple is very cool and I am well versed in the protocol. Luv it!

I see it as very viable. Impossible to regulate at this time, much like Bitcoin.

Remember from your economics 101: The money supply is essentially REAL MONEY + DEBT (based on REAL MONEY). In the decentralized realm, Bitcoin is the REAL MONEY, Ripple (at least so far) is answering the second need and that is the DEBT based on that money. Had to come eventually. Glad to see it so soon! Great question!

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

who is your favorite my little pony?

I can answer any questions regarding MSB requirements, state and federal.

I saw MLP, oops

Well, now that you mention it, this is a much more important topic. My favorite pony is Rarity in reverence to the worst troll ever.

I think you misspelt rainbow dash.

[BTCINVESTOR]

How would policing and or controlling of fiat come into play if the exchange is based in another country, but they have a large following in the US? Would there even be a way to stop them if they were based outside the country and they used methods of payment such as moneygram, WU, Wire transfers, or even credit/debit cards?

Just remember, it's always about squeezing what they control (meaning the US Feds and/or state govs):

Moneygram (US Money Transmitter, registered with FinCEN/IRS, Licensed in all 50 states) What if they were to lose the registration or any of those state licensures? They will quickly terminate any relationship, say to BitInstant, to name just one.

Western union - same as above.

Wire Transfers - Regulated by Central Banking law - Out Feds wouldn't have to try hard to shut down the foreign intermediaries that are using the protocol.

Credit/Debit Cards - If they are the major card associations, VISA/MC/AMEX/DISCOVER/Diners/etc...the list goes on....The Feds can shut those down within hours if needed. But if they are foreign branded credit or debit cards, the nation regulating the issuing body would get involved.

You see the conundrum?

[Kluge]

Who is this?