Stoping the drug war would be a great advantage to restore trust with the police

[Masha Sha]

I think that one of the big underlying problem in America derive from the so called drug war. I am certain that legalization of all psychoactive plants would reduce tensions between the cops and the communities. This not a legal and real law enforcement issue but a MEDICAL one. You don't fight addiction with jails and coercion but with help. Jail are made to punish and teach nothing to do with a medical issue. I am curious to know how the situation is in Colorado since the legalization... I am sure there is more trust between cops and the community...

[stonefree]

I think that one of the big underlying problem in America derive from the so called drug war. I am certain that legalization of all psychoactive plants would reduce tensions between the cops and the communities. This not a legal and real law enforcement issue but a MEDICAL one. You don't fight addiction with jails and coercion but with help. Jail are made to punish and teach nothing to do with a medical issue. I am curious to know how the situation is in Colorado since the legalization... I am sure there is more trust between cops and the community...

First, I don't think you can actually use Colorado or Washington state as examples in this case - you're talking about legal weed.
You think weed will ever satisfy junkies' needs?

Don't get me wrong - I am all up for making almost every "drug" or drug legal and taxing the shit out of it/them, because if somebody wants to get drugs, they will simply get them.

But making them legal won't stop or decrease addiction, i think it will create more legal problems - doctor/prescription liabilities, lawsuits, etc.

And when it comes to so called "Drug War" - there are so many other issues that happen "behind the closed door"

[Moloch]

First, I don't think you can actually use Colorado or Washington state as examples in this case - you're talking about legal weed.
You think weed will ever satisfy junkies' needs?

This is a very uninformed question...

First... they are not "junkies"... some people like to drink a beer, others smoke a joint... if you drink an occasional beer are you an alcoholic?  no!... if you smoke an occasional doobie, are you a junkie?  no!

Second... cannabis is not a "gateway drug"... there is zero evidence of that... in fact, there is evidence that cannabis is very satisfying, and does not lead to using other drugs at all


The drugs war is about money and control... it gives police the ability to seize large amounts of cash without 'just cause' or 'reasonable suspicion'... it lets cops cherry pick who they want to target (like black people)... its all about the money and privately owned prison industry (read slaves)

[Masha Sha]

Drug war by itself is a lie, it's a war against the citizens of this nation. War, I repeat again War. I don't think a democratic state can do a war against its people, even if they are the minority on this issue. What is the effect of declaring war on a group of people based on a victimless activity they do? It's called radicalization and create a battlefield...

Of course this the real dogmatism... An issue that makes the mask fall... The American cops are at war with psychoactive users. The last one against alcohol resulted in what? Same cause, same symptoms...


Anyway enjoy the fruit of what you sow...

(Btw I don't expect the opponents to rationality, morality and common sense to change, as brainwashed as the nazis before them... And as such no peaceful solution available).

[gentlemand]

Second... cannabis is not a "gateway drug"... there is zero evidence of that... in fact, there is evidence that cannabis is very satisfying, and does not lead to using other drugs at all

Of course it bloody is, but mainly because in the past you'd have to hang around a drug dealer to get hold of it.

I've known quite a few dealers in my time. Not a single one sold weed only.

That's why legalising it works.

[Moloch]

Second... cannabis is not a "gateway drug"... there is zero evidence of that... in fact, there is evidence that cannabis is very satisfying, and does not lead to using other drugs at all

Of course it bloody is, but mainly because in the past you'd have to hang around a drug dealer to get hold of it.

I've known quite a few dealers in my time. Not a single one sold weed only.

That's why legalising it works.

First, that isn't even the "gateway drug" argument at all... the argument goes like, "eventually weed will not be enough for them and they will move on to harder substances"... which is simply untrue and statistically false

As for your remark about dealers... the vast majority I have met only sell weed... and not once has anyone pushed a drug on me... I don't have to "hang around them"... I can show up for 5 minutes once a month... nobody cares

The simple fact is... people who want hard drugs, will do hard drugs... and people who don't want that, won't do them... that's how it works... there is no "gateway drug"... it's a load of bullshit propaganda to keep cannabis illegal and perpetuate the war on poor people

If you are black, you have a 400% higher chance of being arrested for possession (or even murdered) #BlackLivesMatter

[gentlemand]

It's a gateway in introducing people to drug culture. It's nothing to do with any individual drugs or their respective merits. Being around that normalises it.

I've seen no shortage of people dabble in weed and end up fucking themselves up on heavier stuff.

No one starts off wanting to do that, but it's an unsurprising progression. No doubt a significant reason for that is hanging around drug dealers and users. If you popped into a shop to get your 'shit' instead then there's a chance you'd pass all that by.

[Moloch]

It's a gateway in introducing people to drug culture. It's nothing to do with any individual drugs or their respective merits. Being around that normalises it.

I've seen no shortage of people dabble in weed and end up fucking themselves up on heavier stuff.

No one starts off wanting to do that, but it's an unsurprising progression. No doubt a significant reason for that is hanging around drug dealers and users. If you popped into a shop to get your 'shit' instead then there's a chance you'd pass all that by.

It is simply a false claim... someone pulled it out of their ass without any evidence

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-gateway-drug

However, the majority of people who use marijuana do not go on to use other, "harder" substances...

An alternative to the gateway-drug hypothesis is that people who are more vulnerable to drug-taking are simply more likely to start with readily available substances like marijuana, tobacco, or alcohol, and their subsequent social interactions with other substance users increases their chances of trying other drugs. Further research is needed to explore this question.

People who want heroin, will use heroin... whether or not they have access to weed... one has nothing to do with the other...

People use heroin because they get addicted to opiates prescribed by their doctor in the form of morphine, hydrocodone (vicodin), etc.

[gentlemand]

I can only go on my own observations. I'm not interested in what scientists have to say on the subject. I have seen with my own beady eyes people starting off smoking weed and winding up heroin infested zombies. I believe this happened mainly because they got inadvertently mired in druggist culture.

I also know plenty of people who smoke weed and do just fine, but there are enough who are not for me to believe it is a gateway drug. If it was legal and acceptable everywhere then I believe it would largely stop being a gateway drug.

[Moloch]

I can only go on my own observations. I'm not interested in what scientists have to say on the subject. I have seen with my own beady eyes people starting off smoking weed and winding up heroin infested zombies. I believe this happened mainly because they got inadvertently mired in druggist culture.

I also know plenty of people who smoke weed and do just fine, but there are enough who are not for me to believe it is a gateway drug. If it was legal and acceptable everywhere then I believe it would largely stop being a gateway drug.

You can't rely on personal anecdotal evidence... what is your sample size, 20 people?

It is better to do something like, watch what happens in Colorado... do more people use hard drugs or fewer?  Fewer people use harder drugs now that cannabis is legal... which is more evidence that it is not a "gateway drug"

It is not and has never been a "gateway drug"... once again, that term is simply bullshit propaganda... the drug war is and has always been a propaganda war

[gentlemand]

You can't rely on personal anecdotal evidence... what is your sample size, 20 people?

It is better to do something like, watch what happens in Colorado... do more people use hard drugs or fewer?  Fewer people use harder drugs now that cannabis is legal... which is more evidence that it is not a "gateway drug"

About 100 maybe and I choose to trust direct experience over 'studies'.

You're making the exact same point as I am. Because it's now legal it's been lifted out of being a gateway drug. If drug dealers were the only place you could obtain Broccoli then that would be a gateway drug too. It's a cultural, not chemical, issue.

[BADecker]

33 people hospitalized after K2 overdoses

But the apocalyptic scene wasn't for a movie. The victims had apparently smoked a bad batch of the "synthetic marijuana" drug known as K2 — and 33 people had to be hospitalized.

"It looked like a scene out of 'The Walking Dead,' " said Brian Arthur, a lifelong Brooklyn resident who posted footage of the disheartening scene on Facebook.

Bags of K2 are seen on the ground where the overdoses happened in Brooklyn.Photo: Dennis A. Clark

"These guys were wandering around, stumbling all over the place, and were completely out of it," he told The Post. "They didn't know their whereabouts, and some couldn't even get up off the floor. One guy was even trying to hold himself up with a Johnny pump [fire hydrant]. It was ridiculous."

In Arthur's video, police can be seen corralling some of the drug users as others lose their minds.

"Look at these dudes — they can't even stand straight," he says, while walking through the junkie wasteland, panning to people passed out on the concrete. "This is crazy!"

Read more at http://nypost.com/2016/07/12/multiple-people-hospitalized-after-k2-overdoses/.

[helloeverybody]

I agree on this one, I dont think all drugs should be legal as such but certainly decrimilised. Anything to do with drugs should be a police matter but more a health problem. Locking people up for using drugs doesnt stop them from using them and if anything makes the harms greater by getting them hooked on other drugs while in jail. most of society also wouldnt have any reason to fear the police if it wasnt for the criminilisation of drugs. Police need to concentrate more on real crimes. Rape,murder , assaults theft etc. Why are most police powers concentrated on what would be effectively victimless crimes.

Bad decker has shown above what prohibition of drugs can do, Where there access to the safer drugs that a tried and tested we wouldnt have "legal highs" that contain unknown chemicals flooding the streets.

[Masha Sha]

i read a lot of very interesting comments here thank you. one of my favorite story about the psychoactive market is when a little town down south searched for a police chief... Among the 50 or so males all declined. Finally a 20 something mother of 2 took the post. Is she still on duty?

The state raises the violence, the market call. Risk premium increase profit too, the market raise... Will there still be a state to call?

Little statists will learn to not fight the market...

Now another cool story... One daughter of a politician getting bribes from the psychoactive market participants was driving on her new car on the highway coming back from the country club... A bullet flew straight to her head from a little exchange on a side road by a group of selfprotected (and untaxed) market participants...

The cops falsified the autopsy of the little princess daughter of the politician... They remove her cocaine results and said that the crash was because of alcohol... How could they just know that it had nothing to do with her...

No peace
No justice

No justice
No peace

And btw the drug war just provide a more efficient psychoactive market... Police or natural selection...  And the problem for the cops is the market networks grow to the point of where in jail, those arrested can show a picture of the house of the cop with his children and wife outside... It's called the market buddies... Blue or what ever you will fold for the green one:



But still no data from Colorado... The statists are known to hate the truth and Obama must have told lies to his daughters and doesn't have what it takes to make America great again...

[Masha Sha]

Ending the drug war is the only way to deescalate the situation and restore trust between the police and the communities...

Look at the niederland... Less users than in most other European countries...

The cops in America are culturally seen as the ennemies in large part of the population... Why? So called drug war.

[stonefree]

First, I don't think you can actually use Colorado or Washington state as examples in this case - you're talking about legal weed.
You think weed will ever satisfy junkies' needs?

This is a very uninformed question...

First... they are not "junkies"... some people like to drink a beer, others smoke a joint... if you drink an occasional beer are you an alcoholic?  no!... if you smoke an occasional doobie, are you a junkie?  no!

Second... cannabis is not a "gateway drug"... there is zero evidence of that... in fact, there is evidence that cannabis is very satisfying, and does not lead to using other drugs at all


The drugs war is about money and control... it gives police the ability to seize large amounts of cash without 'just cause' or 'reasonable suspicion'... it lets cops cherry pick who they want to target (like black people)... its all about the money and privately owned prison industry (read slaves)

Can you please read OP's question and argument before trying to debate with me and putting words in my mouth.

weed/cannabis =/= drug war. Of course I will mention "junkies" after OP mentions "drug war" and "police & community tensions" because obviously you and I know cannabis is not a big issue at all.

Also he mentioned "addiction, jail, medical issues" and I can tell you know that people who smoke weed have none of that (caused by smoking weed). So not sure who your statements above matter.

[Masha Sha]

It's all psychoactive... Why use the word junkies in a derogatory tone. User of psychoactive... Those on psychoactive legal drugs as are "junkies" as those on illegal substances... The only difference is that one group balloons the cost of health for everyone while the illegal one the cost of security...

If you want to add another interesting factor to the tragedies there is the private incarceration system with occupancy guaranted by the state... with this it becomes totally unbearable for the communities targeted... And ensue a climate of total violence against the cops...

Another very powerful source of attrition is the 3 strikes rule in some state... At second one it is all in for those risking arrest... And when those people are addicted to a substance... What ever it could be canabis... Cops better prepare to encounter a life and death situation...

The state has no right to decide what a free full righted human being put in his body. This is totally from despotic autocratic perfect society builders... The utopia of a world free of psychoactive...

The alcohol prohibition permitted the raise of very efficient alcohol merchants who amassed colossal fortunes... And they too considered bribing and if nessary killing cops has a normal cost of doing business... Law enforcement risk premium permit margin beyond belief.

[hermanhs09]

I think that one of the big underlying problem in America derive from the so called drug war. I am certain that legalization of all psychoactive plants would reduce tensions between the cops and the communities. This not a legal and real law enforcement issue but a MEDICAL one. You don't fight addiction with jails and coercion but with help. Jail are made to punish and teach nothing to do with a medical issue. I am curious to know how the situation is in Colorado since the legalization... I am sure there is more trust between cops and the community...

Drug war is something stupid,but sometimes neccessary.
I think that drug war does not make sense,if it is against marijuana,because this plant is very helpful for ill people,it may be used as a recreational drug (ciggarates are the same thing),
however i dont think that it would be wise to allow using drugs like heroin or cocaine,because it is really harmful to people.

[virtualx]

I think that one of the big underlying problem in America derive from the so called drug war. I am certain that legalization of all psychoactive plants would reduce tensions between the cops and the communities. This not a legal and real law enforcement issue but a MEDICAL one. You don't fight addiction with jails and coercion but with help. Jail are made to punish and teach nothing to do with a medical issue. I am curious to know how the situation is in Colorado since the legalization... I am sure there is more trust between cops and the community...

Drug war is something stupid,but sometimes neccessary.
I think that drug war does not make sense,if it is against marijuana,because this plant is very helpful for ill people,it may be used as a recreational drug (ciggarates are the same thing),
however i dont think that it would be wise to allow using drugs like heroin or cocaine,because it is really harmful to people.

US government knows everything about their citizens do 24/7, they know who sells drugs and who does not.
Their goal is another, but I don't know what 

[Masha Sha]

Splitting the opponents of the drug war by using cocaine or heroine is a classical application of divide and conquer. It's only by staying United on all psychoactive that the victims of this war have a chance to defeat the oppressor and restore a peaceful and just community. The enemy is vicious and ready to all means...

Now another aspect that is largely ignore is the establishment of shadow trade highways and distribution networks. 1st and foremost the merchants are in this trade to make a profit, as they can't secure their business nor their gains they always need to distribut means to defend themselves against opponents. Concretely it means that with the substances and the money there will be weapons circulating in the network. Furthermore weapons are useless with out a know how... The network will have to learn to fight alone. Then there is the problem of subpar of the network going to other activities than free will free consent trade... Once the trade roads are in place and due to the threat represented by the police those network are not very sutructured... Meaning that a cell can easily pivot to what ever nefarious activities backed by a foreign state actor or not (importing weapon of mass destruction, forced prostitution, slave trading, what ever you can imagine). All of this can only be a one time event in the trade cell... Making it harder to detect and oppose by the so called law enforcement.

Another point is how the bribing system of politicians and law enforcement can generate systemic inefficiencies in the force who can sometimes only be revealed at the time of a crisis.

I don't believe anyway that the supporter of the drug war are smart enough to understand what I wrote. I firmly believe what ever their level of wealth or education they are suboptimal human being, because their mental and reality representation has been taken over... They are only biological drones to me, sadly.