Steem pyramid scheme revealed

[iamnotback]

That is why mom doesn't join.

I personally know >1 "moms" who have joined and are actively participating. I didn't push them to it, but I mentioned it and they decided on their own to sign up (my interest is more in seeing whether they are interested than trying to sell it). Many more are apparent on the site.

The voting circle jerk as you put it may put them off and cause them to lose interesting, but my bet would be on bad hosting and the limited feature set being bigger issues.

I've only seen 1 mom out of 32.000 that have joined. How many have you seen?

Way more than 1. I don't have time to search for links but maybe someone else wants to find some.

I mean mothers who are 50 and 60 years old and don't give a shit out our blockchain fantasy. Not 20 and 30 year olds with hightech bfs.

My mom finally got on Paypal I guess it was like 2011.

I mean the professional bloggers and writers too.

I mean anyone wanting to share normally not just delusional blockchain print money out of thin air helium.

smooth you have been amazingly cordial. I want to thank you.

[smooth]

They think they are giving away money for free. Printing money out-of-thin-air but they don't think of it that way.

Yes

They just see all those illiquid STEEM POWER valued in $$$$$$ (which is possible only because almost no one is cashing out and instead are powering up, except the probably the whales).

No, they don't really pay attention to the dollar value of Steem Power or think about cashing it out. Only crypto nerds think that way.

And they think maybe some of that karma will come back to them. They think everyone on Steem is so happy something better than their actual lives or other Internet sites.

Welcome to social media. Every single social media platform in existence consists in large part of people making their lives look better than they actually are, or occasionally posting drama for the voyeuristic enjoyment of others.

[iamnotback]

They think they are giving away money for free. Printing money out-of-thin-air but they don't think of it that way.

Yes

Feels great at the start doesn't it. Ponzi are always eurphoric until they leave everyone entirely pissed off at the end.

They just see all those illiquid STEEM POWER valued in $$$$$$ (which is possible only because almost no one is cashing out and instead are powering up, except the probably the whales).

No, they don't really pay attention to the dollar value of Steem Power or think about cashing it out. Only crypto nerds think that way.

It is impossible they don't notice it. Subconsciously it is in their eurphoria.

Their subconscious has been trained to know money makes people happy.

And they think maybe some of that karma will come back to them. They think everyone on Steem is so happy something better than their actual lives or other Internet sites.

Welcome to social media. Every single social media platform in existence consists in large part of people making their lives look better than they actually are, or occasionally posting drama for the voyeuristic enjoyment of others.

But Facebook can actually keep that illusion alive because it is trading virtual goods. My gf still feels good when she sees a cute dog. That is the reason she is on Fb.

Steemit is trading real money and the bubble only lasts for as long as everyone continues to POWER UP everything.

Eventually people want to start cashing out.

The reality that is likely to hit before that is the realization that giving money away for free creates a lot of discord, jealousy, game theory, anger, etc.. That has already started and it will grow worse and worse. Guaranteed.

Remember in the beginning that free money greases the wheels and everyone is extra nice. But later the reality of human nature will come out.

If Steem was building actual vocations for people or building a sustainable happy illusion, then it would have legs.

Can Dan magically create an ecosystem from this start that gives people vocations and/or is sustainable happy illusion? My bet is that Dan only knows what Dan has always demonstrated he is good at. Which is how to combine people together into some financial scheme where you earn interest or some dividend. All of his designs have been like that.

[chryspano]

Edit: I guess you didn't notice I was awake 24 hours straight yesterday (and given my illness that is like saying you had been awake for 48 hours straight). And written I don't know how many detailed technical and marketing analysis BCT posts yesterday.

If lack of sleep is the root cause of your FUDing crusade then perhaps we can forgive you

WHERE IS YOUR PHOTO?

Are you sure you want an answer?

You can criticize those of us who put our real photo and LinkedIn account online

I don't give a F@#$% about "LinkedIn" or your photos and I only "criticize" those of you that mix up, lies, "miscalculations" misinformation, and FUD with a "healthy" amount of "facts" in an attempt to make it sound "legitimate".

yet you are hiding you weasel. You dish it out but can you also allow yourself to be exposed?

I'm not a "weasel" and btw why should I "expose" myself?  would this benefit you or your FUDing crusade?

Ah you are INTJ and I am ENTP, so that explains some of the reason we are not going to get along well. You hide and judge. I discuss and perceive.

It is all about production. That is all that will matter in the end.

That is why I don't want to join some clusterfuck circle-jerk one-size-fits-all ("winner take all" power vacuum) where I have to kiss ass on INTJs. You should be filtered out of my coterie and myself filtered out of yours. You go hang out with your INTJ types and I will go hang out with the extroverts who prefer production and discussion over judgemental impossible perfection.

Can you see what you are doing? There is reason you are being "Judged"

[iamnotback]

Your "FUD" are my facts. It will end just the same as all those Ethereum supporters who said similarly. And then I had the last Bruce Wanker laugh on them, and eventually on you too.

Can you see what you are doing? There is reason you are being "Judged"

Do you think I care? I am just pointing you to the mirror. I don't want to join your circle-jerk. If you had something really viable that wasn't going to hurt many people as The DAO did, then I would be enthusiastic. Steem's collapse will be more interesting than The DAO in that we will have the names of the victims. We'll be able to compile stories of mothers who handed money to insiders that they could have spent on their children. It will be the posterchild of blockchains used to explain to the masses why blockchains are predatory scams wrapped in fantastical delusions of grandeur.

I think this mother has abandoned and oh my she transferred money into Steem (a victim):

https://steemit.com/@danielaonsteem

You are equating (as equals) my analysis (some Judging, but it is largely Thinking and some iNtuition) of an inanimate object to which you happen to be apparently very attached to, with your Judging of a person (myself). Which btw, is another shard of evidence of the delusional helium in the air of those supporting Steemit.

Judging Others

7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.


I guess another ban is coming because the Steemit supporters are petitioning the moderators just like the Ethereum supporters did:

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

Steem is fucked.

The voting and reward algorithm in Steem seems to me to have a fundamental flaw.

If they made voting rewards linear, then all SP holders could simply vote for their own posts and recover their share of the dilution of the money supply. The game theory would be there is no financial incentive to vote for posts of others (although there might be an incentive for minnows who value the site functionality more than the tiny bit of rewards they control).

So instead they made rewards quadratic and even time incentivized so that you have to risk your vote on a post that you can't be sure will gain you the most rewards (since you don't know which post all the other users will vote on until later, which is why the votes are time incentivized to vote early). That also had the hype benefit of creating posts with exaggerated $50,000 rewards due these non-linear amplification algorithms.

But the quadratic and time incentivization game theory highly favors whales who can collude since the remove the risks the algorithms intended to create yet the colluding whales can take all the non-linear reward amplifications. I am not saying whales are colluding now, but for example if the media moguls can obtain significant stake and then accumulate 100% of the tokens over time by this game theory strategy thus controlling ranking of content on the site.

I believe the only solution to this is to let users control their own ranking algorithms (so whales can't predict rankings even if they collude on voting) and votes for computing rewards should always be linearly tallied. In other words, rankings need to be truly decentralized else the entire system is a clusterfuck back to centralized media control again. Meaning that if you only vote for yourself, you voting pattern make not align with like-mindedness with others thus you may have no influence on the ranking of your posts on the site, so you lose income from the votes of others. Meaning if you vote for yourself, you opt out of blogging.

Meaning I see no solution to the fact that it is impossible to incentivize whales to vote meaningfully and it is impossible to charge whales for the voting of minnows¹! Dan's communism fails.

I'll be reading over @theoretical's blogs to see if I have made any errors or incorrect assumptions. I'll update you if I find any.

¹ I do see one solution to this where whales are charged for voting but not allowed to vote but it can't work in the Dan's current design where STEEM are debased 50% yearly because obviously whales won't decide to hold STEEM.

I remember now that long ago (perhaps it was 2014) I already gone down this wild goose chase of voting from shared debasement and had realized it was fundamentally flawed and can't work.

Steemit is fucked. There is no way to fix this. Absolutely impossible. Fugetaboutit.

What they did was put the whales in control so they could over pay for blogs to generate the delusional to-da-moon groupthink.

I can't think of any way sure way to fix it. We might hope if we adopt my solution quoted above and make the forced voting small enough, that minnows will just vote their conscience (because it is a hassle otherwise perhaps), in that case maybe it works. But the whales will still opt out by voting themselves, so the minnows end up paying for all the blogging, which means it won't have sufficient funding. Power-law distribution rules.

If whales have a huge incentive to be restricted from voting (e.g. they don't have to hold for 2 years), then perhaps you can charge the debasement to them. But if the minnows are voting with the whales' share, then the minnows have more incentive to vote for themselves.

It just doesn't seem to work no matter how we design it.

Steemit's whales can justify throwing away money because they know otherwise they can't cash out. This is still a ponzi scheme and race to the exits before everyone realizes the voting system is totally dysfunctional. It will become more and more apparently over time.

They may be hoping they can get enough users into the system to begin some ecosystem work on microtransactions. Maybe the big lie in the voting algorithm is just a stopgap measure to onboard users. But I really can't see this group of developers ever succeeding because they seem to be always about fooling people.

Solid businesses are built on solid ethics.

[chryspano]

Your "FUD" are my facts. It will end just the same as all those Ethereum supporters who said similarly. And then I had the last Bruce Wanker laugh on them, and eventually on you too.

Can you see what you are doing? There is reason you are being "Judged"

Do you think I care? I am just pointing you to the mirror. I don't want to join your circle-jerk. If you had something really viable that wasn't going to hurt many people as The DAO did, then I would be enthusiastic. Steem's collapse will be more interesting than The DAO in that we will have the names of the victims. We'll be able to compile stories of mothers who handed money to insiders that they could have spent on their children. It will be the posterchild of blockchains used to explain to the masses why blockchains are predatory scams wrapped in fantastical delusions of grandeur.

I think this mother has abandoned and oh my she transferred money into Steem (a victim):

https://steemit.com/@danielaonsteem

You are equating (as equals) my analysis (some Judging, but it is largely Thinking and some iNtuition) of an inanimate object to which you happen to be apparently very attached to, with your Judging of a person (myself). Which btw, is another shard of evidence of the delusional helium in the air of those supporting Steemit.

Judging Others

7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Ethereum... The DAO....   quotes from the bible.... "inocent victims"....   all fit well in the "Steem pyramid scheme revealed" thread

tl;dr of your post is Leave the FUDer alone..

[smooth]

They just see all those illiquid STEEM POWER valued in $$$$$$ (which is possible only because almost no one is cashing out and instead are powering up, except the probably the whales).

No, they don't really pay attention to the dollar value of Steem Power or think about cashing it out. Only crypto nerds think that way.

It is impossible they don't notice it. Subconsciously it is in their eurphoria.

Their subconscious has been trained to know money makes people happy.

Maybe when the amounts get big (successful bloggers, stars, other pros, etc.). The successful bloggers do want to promote their posts though, so they seem to often value moderate amounts of SP for its utility at least at market value, so even then I'm not sure until the amounts get quite large.

But if someone builds up a $100-200 from modest rewards on comments and posts, then they're going to take the liquid Steem Dollars as their reward and not be interesting cashing out $1-2/week from their Steem Power for the next two years. That's just not how people think. The SP is not what they see as the cash reward, the SD is.

[generalizethis]

I could literally start an online school from my crappy apartment, without having to explain why I don't have a graduate degree (but the tests verify I have the knowledge base).

https://steemit.com/poetry/@jdevans/in-the-rain

--see coments

[SANALIU]

steem is only coin altcoin new altcoin
but distributed coin to social media distribution equal and same facebook or twitter
but in steam every activity post vote and more we are paid coin steemit
not mining not pos not pow so majority coin is still in hand founder and owner steemit coin

[AlexGR]

Note Steemit is accumulating numerous copyright violations. I've read it is $150 per infraction in potential liability.

From what I understand, all videos and pictures are linked externally. At the blockchain level there is only a url link - which may respond now but not after 3 years.

Copying text could be another issue though.

[generalizethis]

Note Steemit is accumulating numerous copyright violations. I've read it is $150 per infraction in potential liability.

From what I understand, all videos and pictures are linked externally. At the blockchain level there is only a url link - which may respond now but not after 3 years.

Copying text could be another issue though.

The amount of articles reposted without citations is pretty ridiculous.

[bones261]

Note Steemit is accumulating numerous copyright violations. I've read it is $150 per infraction in potential liability.

From what I understand, all videos and pictures are linked externally. At the blockchain level there is only a url link - which may respond now but not after 3 years.

Copying text could be another issue though.

The amount of articles reposted without citations is pretty ridiculous.

The Steemit Gestapo are on it. MasterYoda is being heavily downvoted, and it appears he does make citations. Too bad MasterYoda  powered up. He'll have to just put up with it for two long years. Wonder how many others will get fed up with Steemit and have to hang out in purgatory for two years?

[generalizethis]

Note Steemit is accumulating numerous copyright violations. I've read it is $150 per infraction in potential liability.

From what I understand, all videos and pictures are linked externally. At the blockchain level there is only a url link - which may respond now but not after 3 years.

Copying text could be another issue though.

The amount of articles reposted without citations is pretty ridiculous.

The Steemit Gestapo are on it. MasterYoda is being heavily downvoted, and it appears he does make citations. Too bad MasterYoda  powered up. He'll have to just put up with it for two long years. Wonder how many others will get fed up with Steemit and have to hang out in purgatory for two years?

Purgatory is where spam merchants belong. I think Dante said that.

[Ethertrader1]

Steem is nothing more than a pump and dump. For those fools who bought it I feel bad. If you simply made Steem on steemit then little lost.

[AlexGR]

If you simply made Steem on steemit then little lost.

You are a glass-half-full type of guy, aren't you?

[bones261]

Steem is nothing more than a pump and dump. For those fools who bought it I feel bad. If you simply made Steem on steemit then little lost.

At least the Steemit blockchain is actually storing content, like it is designed to do.(The other stuff is a convoluted Rube Goldberg machine. But that's beside the point.) So how are those wonderful smart contracts and Dapps doing? Also, why are there now ETH and ETC? I thought their community was in almost unanimous support of the hardfork. Go take your FUD, and post it in one of the ETH ETC threads.There are certainly enough of them around here to choose from. BTW, please tell your ETH buddies to stop spamming Stemit with their ETH hype. It's getting annoying.

[iamnotback]

They just see all those illiquid STEEM POWER valued in $$$$$$ (which is possible only because almost no one is cashing out and instead are powering up, except the probably the whales).

No, they don't really pay attention to the dollar value of Steem Power or think about cashing it out. Only crypto nerds think that way.

It is impossible they don't notice it. Subconsciously it is in their eurphoria.

Their subconscious has been trained to know money makes people happy.

Maybe when the amounts get big (successful bloggers, stars, other pros, etc.). The successful bloggers do want to promote their posts though, so they seem to often value moderate amounts of SP for its utility at least at market value, so even then I'm not sure until the amounts get quite large.

But if someone builds up a $100-200 from modest rewards on comments and posts, then they're going to take the liquid Steem Dollars as their reward and not be interesting cashing out $1-2/week from their Steem Power for the next two years. That's just not how people think. The SP is not what they see as the cash reward, the SD is.

Hehe, you were sleepy also. Hope readers understand that is what happens when we work too many consecutive hours. I did several 24 hour work sessions over the past week. Was necessary because the several guys who wrote the Steem whitepaper didn't bother to explain all the metrics to us. So we had to go figure this out from scratch, what they had been thinking about for many months or year or more.

Tangent out (not addressed to smooth), I'll know I am getting healthy when I can do longer marathon sessions than the younger guys (not there yet). I'm awake 18 hours now and just finished an intense 2 hour gym workout about 2 hours earlier. I'm sleepy right now, but I also feel ... I better not say...

smooth, I think you are trying to argue here that there won't be a lot of SP stored up to dump later?

[iamnotback]

Can someone please tell me how much money Steem has given away to bloggers thus far? I want to compute an estimate of their acquisition cost per signup. That cost is all the money they are paying out to bloggers.

I want to compare with the typical acquisition cost for other social networks.

[iamnotback]

Note Steemit is accumulating numerous copyright violations. I've read it is $150 per infraction in potential liability.

From what I understand, all videos and pictures are linked externally. At the blockchain level there is only a url link - which may respond now but not after 3 years.

Copying text could be another issue though.

The amount of articles reposted without citations is pretty ridiculous.

Even if it is linked externally, Steemit serving the links could be liable for using copyrighted content in their business. Although it is on the Steem blockchain, Steemit doesn't have to serve the (embedded links to the) content. They should implement a copyright compliance team. Steemit is a centralized entity and thus is liable.

That is unless the user is downloading a client and the user is deciding which content from the blockchain the user wishes to request and view.

[smooth]

They just see all those illiquid STEEM POWER valued in $$$$$$ (which is possible only because almost no one is cashing out and instead are powering up, except the probably the whales).

No, they don't really pay attention to the dollar value of Steem Power or think about cashing it out. Only crypto nerds think that way.

It is impossible they don't notice it. Subconsciously it is in their eurphoria.

Their subconscious has been trained to know money makes people happy.

Maybe when the amounts get big (successful bloggers, stars, other pros, etc.). The successful bloggers do want to promote their posts though, so they seem to often value moderate amounts of SP for its utility at least at market value, so even then I'm not sure until the amounts get quite large.

But if someone builds up a $100-200 from modest rewards on comments and posts, then they're going to take the liquid Steem Dollars as their reward and not be interesting cashing out $1-2/week from their Steem Power for the next two years. That's just not how people think. The SP is not what they see as the cash reward, the SD is.

Hehe, you were sleepy also. Hope readers understand that is what happens when we work too many consecutive hours. I did several 24 hour work sessions over the past week. Was necessary because the several guys who wrote the Steem whitepaper didn't bother to explain all the metrics to us. So we had to go figure this out from scratch, what they had been thinking about for many months or year or more.

Tangent out (not addressed to smooth), I'll know I am getting healthy when I can do longer marathon sessions than the younger guys (not there yet). I'm awake 18 hours now and just finished an intense 2 hour gym workout about 2 hours earlier. I'm sleepy right now, but I also feel ... I better not say...

smooth, I think you are trying to argue here that there won't be a lot of SP stored up to dump later?

That question doesn't even make sense to me.

Some users will want to exit later. If it is successful others will want to enter. I don't know which will be the stronger force over which timescale. If it isn't successful it will go to zero.