Steem pyramid scheme revealed

[iamnotback]

After looking more closely at that post my opinion of him is further reduced.

Care to enlighten what you see which I don't 

I have no fucking idea what you have against the guy. He tried to launch a viral marketing campaign and wanted to reach a measily 500 supported. He was only able to get 30 with 142 upvotes on his first blog post about it.

Then after waiting a while and only reaching 60, he made another blog post and expressed his frustration and he also pondered if maybe Steemians have some disincentive to promote to new signups significantly.

Of course if he had studied the active users, he would realize he is asking for on the order of 3 - 5% response rate, but that isn't entirely unreasonable unless we assume most are Sybil accounts and in that case we really have a small circle-jerk thus far then.

To tell if this a crypto-circle jerk or not, look at the number of women's articles being posted--this should also indicate how many women are staying--does the front page look like cosmo, a tech magazine, facebook, or a news feed? To me it looks like a little bit of everything.

I wish you could tell me how many women. Haven't you ever seen the Hollywood sets where it looks like an entire town until you walk behind and it was only a facade. Whales paying females. So if we have 50 females who've been paid $1000, so not surprising they are posting.

[generalizethis]

...they are posting.

And I'm sure a badly named, anarchist (bolted with excessive controls) version won't turn into a political right header -- crack "humpty dumpty? What happened to your f'ing head!"

Fixed (learning to speak Plath is a dangerous art): https://steemit.com/life/@generalizethis/what-black-swan-can-teach-us-about-ruthless-ambition

[iamnotback]

I am headed to sleep. I find it a bit frustrating that apparently no one at Steemit.com is compiling detailed data for public release. I am losing interest on arguing on all the minutia when we don't even have the data we need to narrow down our analysis:

I'm pretty sceptical of the Steem project

Why are you skeptical? How many active users does Steem have? What is the account abandonment rate? What percentage of users earn anything near their time opportunity cost? What features does Steem offer which Medium doesn't which can make users sticky even if they don't earn that much? How many daily users does Medium have? Is Facebook testing adding in-app content such as blogging? Is a steady 1k daily signups an exponential (viral) growth rate?

[smooth]

After looking more closely at that post my opinion of him is further reduced.

Care to enlighten what you see which I don't  

I have no fucking idea what you have against the guy. He tried to launch a viral marketing campaign and wanted to reach a measily 500 supported. He was only able to get 30 with 142 upvotes on his first blog post about it.

Then after waiting a while and only reaching 60, he made another blog post and expressed his frustration and he also pondered if maybe Steemians have some disincentive to promote to new signups significantly.

Addressing the steemit community with "Why the Steemit Community sucks" and you can't figure out what I have against him? It is pretty obvious, he is not well suited to attracting flies with honey.

So this might be an indicator that Steemians are not as devoted to Steem as they pretend to be. And that they don't have a big incentive to bring new people to Steem.

That is a good point. A lot of typical social media users routinely joins these viral things that tell them (and all their friends) which character they are in a popular TV series or something. But even then, there is some payoff for the person who signs up (getting silly test results).

On further thought, it is probably a combination of that service not being well known and there just not being that many serious supporters of Steem. There might also be a slight lack of incentive for Steemians to bring other users in when it involves any cost/risk whatsoever, meaning there isn't a strong incentive to promote outside of Steem.

I agree there isn't really a clear incentive for people to sign other people up. If you understand cryptocurrency and realize that expanding the size of the network will make it more useful and (potentially at least) make your tokens more valuable then you might see it, but that is kind of indirect.

[iamnotback]

After looking more closely at that post my opinion of him is further reduced.

Care to enlighten what you see which I don't  

I have no fucking idea what you have against the guy. He tried to launch a viral marketing campaign and wanted to reach a measily 500 supported. He was only able to get 30 with 142 upvotes on his first blog post about it.

Then after waiting a while and only reaching 60, he made another blog post and expressed his frustration and he also pondered if maybe Steemians have some disincentive to promote to new signups significantly.

Addressing the steemit community with "Why the Steemit Community sucks" and you can't figure out what I have against him? It is pretty obvious, he is not well suited to attracting flies with honey.

Well I've been awake 26 hours, so anything I've written in the past 6-8 hours is colored by forehead wanting to hit keyboard and just a general grrrrr reaction with running into friction in discussion when it is far exceeded my beauty sleep time.

About him not being honey (at least in his followup blog post), I understand that insurmountable scaling factors always trump any valiant attempts to select the best people for the job. So I was more interested in any insight he obtained on data, than whether he personally has a low patience. And also my patience is past my bed time.

26 hours and I was supposed to be very ill. I can't believe I am doing that. I didn't even realize I had been awake that long. I thought it was around 18.

I interpreted his title as an expression of frustration. I think smart Steemians can see they try to nurture those users which are frustrated.

Now maybe he is derelict (naive, didn't research) for thinking Steem actually had 50,000 users as many claimed. Then presumably getting frustrated thinking that not even 1% could offer supporters.

[generalizethis]

This is a woman:

https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@deviedev/environmental-attorney-girl-with-a-guy-s-name-here-s-my-story

[iamnotback]

This is a woman:

https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@deviedev/environmental-attorney-girl-with-a-guy-s-name-here-s-my-story

Somewhat interesting to observe an apparently smart introvert open up:

Welcome, it is a very interesting phenomenon seeing so many females come to Steem because of their male relation being a cryptonerd. Apparently the social aspect gives the females an angle they feel interested or engaged with sufficiently to take the action to join. I suppose it has nothing to with earning money in your case and more about the sharing and ideological interest in where this is all headed? Or perhaps to see the human side of this community you've only previously known through digits and cryptocodes?

Btw, notice most of the comments on female blogs are often male. So perhaps that tells the ratio of active females to males is not 50%. Then again maybe males are more motivated to comment. The females may be too busy processing all the information overload of being gawked and ogled. Females are much more social adroit than men and they process a lot more social information (cues) than we do.

[AlexGR]

Either arhag's computation is wrong or I don't completely understand his formula. In any case, the numbers end up being very close to what he had. I think I have explained it more clearly:

https://steemit.com/steem/@anonymint/who-pays-for-the-blogging-and-curation-rewards-part-1-steem-power

An oversimplified version without the mechanism:

https://steemit.com/steem/@alexgr/where-does-the-money-come-from-an-explanation-as-simple-as-it-gets

[amesterdamer]

After looking more closely at that post my opinion of him is further reduced.

That many people don't want to sign up for services that are are going to grab their personal Facebook, Twitter, etc. contacts and promote shit to them is not news. Someone acting upset that Steemit members don't want to do this to support his idea of how a marketing campaign should work is butthurt, yes. And also trolling, and behaving in a hostile manner which will not get more support for his current and future initiatives.

It is quite clear to me the response rate there has literally zero to do with people not wanting competition for rewards.

Hello Smooth,

I perfectly understand that people may not want to share their facebook for privacy issues (theirs, and their connections). Regarding the number, yes I know 500 supporters is BOLD and a big number, and you'll understand in the next post about thunderclap, it's part of the strategy and there's a failsafe plan if the 500 isn't meet, and probably I'm gonna use money from the upvotes to pay to have more control over the campaign (mainly the control of the time of the campaign), but that will be addressed in the next post about the campaign.

But people haven't understood that nor I or anyone else will have access to the list of friends. The campaign will release only a message that will be seen by your friend / connections.

Regarding being hostile. I'm not hostile and if you're talking about the comment on dollarvillant, I stand on what I said... that 3rd post as a money grab... ok the 1st post I full into in and great welcome, the 2nd post thanking the first one, was a classic move seen many time on steemit to drain a little more profit of the 1st wave. What I really found disturbing was the 3 post in 48h, not to add much more, but to write just some "things" and the drain continues. I'm not against him or anyone else, but look like people are against me because I speak what I think and what I feel (and I know I'm not the only one that has this opinion about what happen).


Finally smooth, I'm not troll, if you care to lose time, you'll be able to find information about me and who I'm and what I've done and the crypto-projects I've been engaged. I'm sorry If you're taking sides even without knowing me or even without having talked directly with me. Maybe if you do, you would understand me better, and maybe you would change your mind and become more supportive of what I'm doing and have done, and WILL do for steemit as a brand. Time will prove me right.

PS: Also regarding vigillante's comment... search about "Guerrilla marketing" and how sometime's one has to take a bullet for the team to reach higher goals. (at the moment I've taken more than 1 bullet and still standing).

[iamnotback]

It is quite clear to me the response rate there has literally zero to do with people not wanting competition for rewards.

I was at 20+ hours of not sleeping when I was discussing this yesterday. I was delirious. (Age 51, doing these long work sessions back-to-back over the past week or two, still fighting the remnants of auto-immune disease, etc)

I agree there is no sign of conscious desire to want to avoid promoting signups to mitigate competition for rewards.

I later clarified (to which you even conceded the possibility) there may not be a strong incentive to promote external signups, especially given any risk/cost to doing so.

Now tie that in with a SUBconscious (hindbrain) disincentive to avoid promoting signups to mitigate competition for rewards.

smooth you may lack exposure to the field of psychology and the impact of the subconscious mind.

I am not qualifying the effect and ranking it as a priority concern. I am just an idea person. I like to add all the ideas to my set of concepts to consider before I distill.

When I am very sleepy and can't communicate nor think as clearly, this may get lost in the shuffle of crossed signals.

[iamnotback]

...3rd post as a money grab... ok the 1st post I full into in and great welcome, the 2nd post thanking the first one, was a classic move seen many time on steemit to drain a little more profit of the 1st wave. What I really found disturbing was the 3 post in 48h, not to add much more, but to write just some "things" and the drain continues. I'm not against him or anyone else, but look like people are against me because I speak what I think and what I feel (and I know I'm not the only one that has this opinion about what happen).

... how sometime's one has to take a bullet for the team to reach higher goals. (at the moment I've taken more than 1 bullet and still standing).

It is very clear to me that the killer app of crypto-currency and blockchains is:

cooperation

The overriding ideology that is driving the enthusiasm of the Steem concept is the hope that humanity can cooperate for a better result.

I finally honed/homed in on the key marketing concept that is going to make the concept sticky.

P.S. @amesterdamer to help us find our way to selflessness try to remember we are imperfect in our perspective at any given time. We need to coax towards understanding. I understand frustration. Also each person may come around to this concept of cooperation from a different perspective and for cooperation to work we have to be tolerant of diversity. For example, the Steem system is enriching a few whales who 90% sneaky mined or premined. So it isn't even entirely selfless from its roots. Let's find our way to our end goal. Along the way, there will be competitive interests. That is the way the world works. Let's be clever in finding our way to coax the world towards selflessness. I am even not 100% there yet. I am a pragmatic idealist who is also an anarchist-capitalist, not a communist thief. I will allow people their freedom to choose and compete, because nature requires it.

[iamnotback]

What about this view: http://steempress.io/@anonymint

Neato. Power of an open blockchain (but in Steem's case which we aren't legally allowed to fork to remove the "pre"-mine).

started a new thread here, it's kind of related but a different angle on it:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1579135.new#new

Whoa. That is some strong dirt you have dug up on Jeff Berwick, Steemit's poster boy.

Edit: Steem is not an ideal name. It has so many possible bad connotations:

• Pile of steeming shit.
• Steam misspelling.
• Steamit associated with got pissed off blowing steam out my ears.
• Steeminions.
• Streemit misspelling.
• Can be thought to be a ripoff of branding of popular Steam gaming platform.

[AlexGR]

The platform is named steemit

[generalizethis]

The platform is named steemit

Bands with crappy names: Beatles, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, The Who, Depeche Mode, The Cure....

When you get to nitpicking the name of a brand (unless it's Shitty McShitFace), then you are really scraping the barrel of valid concerns.

Hell, McDonalds has a purple pile of poo named Grimace as part of their mascot team (would have loved sit in on that meeting, "Hey, Bob, it's a giant purple shit named Grimace--and we're selling food?"

[AlexGR]

Who is the other larimer, what is his role, and does he have a nickname on steemit?

[iamnotback]

Anyone (especially @smooth) feel free to inform or correct me:

Just as a side note, i think my explanation is a bit easier to understand... and more accurate, as its not rooted in money supply theory, which is basically silly anyway.

https://steemit.com/interest/@sigmajin/understanding-the-steem-economic-system-vests-sbd-steem-dilution-interest-and-all-those-crazy-things

https://steemit.com/economics/@chiefjay/where-does-the-money-come-from-part-2-of-my-steem-economic-model

The second one is actually the better of the two, IMO, but ive been told the first one is easier

In my opinion, frankly the second blog is so convoluted and inundated with a overly verbose explanation of the unnecessary complexity of vests, that I just gave up reading it about halfway through. Sorry but IMO it is really bad. That is not the way to simplify explanations. I don't intend to offend you, and I just want to be honest with my reply. I am not downvoting you. No animosity is intended. We are trying to help each other and the community understand.

In my opinion, the first blog is better organized and has more concision making it easier to follow, yet still you introduce this afaics mathematically unnecessary complication of vests. Afaics, the understanding of vests is a programming issue on the backend and it is mathematically irrelevant w.r.t. to understanding the economic structure of Steem, which is why I never mention it as it will only make the explanation of the economic structure of the Steem system more obtuse.

Afaics, there appears to be a mathematical equivalence between my way of conceptualizing (and the UI's way of presenting) SP as units of restricted STEEM coupled with the STEEM being separate units of the money supply where the supply of STEEM is increased ~100% yearly, versus your explanation of SP as vests converted to STEEM units by a ratio which changes as supply of vests increases. Frankly I've never found yet a complete explanation of the way vests are accounted and programmed on the backend, which is another reason I don't discuss them. And I haven't studied the code to figure it out. And I didn't find your explanation of them to be complete and unambiguous. If you'd like to cite a more canonical resource on vests, I'd appreciate that.

[takingthis4]

Don't Let the Larimers Dump on You!

kinda real thing i guess i think the only question is when it turn out to be a scam because in my opinion it is really seem to be fishy when i tried using it

[smooth]

That looks correct. In addition to being a programming issue, VESTS may be more comfortable for traditional accounting since the number of units held doesn't change except in response to specific events (power up, power down, receiving rewards).

Anyone (especially @smooth) feel free to inform or correct me:

Just as a side note, i think my explanation is a bit easier to understand... and more accurate, as its not rooted in money supply theory, which is basically silly anyway.

https://steemit.com/interest/@sigmajin/understanding-the-steem-economic-system-vests-sbd-steem-dilution-interest-and-all-those-crazy-things

https://steemit.com/economics/@chiefjay/where-does-the-money-come-from-part-2-of-my-steem-economic-model

The second one is actually the better of the two, IMO, but ive been told the first one is easier

In my opinion, frankly the second blog is so convoluted and inundated with a overly verbose explanation of the unnecessary complexity of vests, that I just gave up reading it about halfway through. Sorry but IMO it is really bad. That is not the way to simplify explanations. I don't intend to offend you, and I just want to be honest with my reply. I am not downvoting you. No animosity is intended. We are trying to help each other and the community understand.

In my opinion, the first blog is better organized and has more concision making it easier to follow, yet still you introduce this afaics mathematically unnecessary complication of vests. Afaics, the understanding of vests is a programming issue on the backend and it is mathematically irrelevant w.r.t. to understanding the economic structure of Steem, which is why I never mention it as it will only make the explanation of the economic structure of the Steem system more obtuse.

Afaics, there appears to be a mathematical equivalence between my way of conceptualizing (and the UI's way of presenting) SP as units of restricted STEEM coupled with the STEEM being separate units of the money supply where the supply of STEEM is increased ~100% yearly, versus your explanation of SP as vests converted to STEEM units by a ratio which changes as supply of vests increases. Frankly I've never found yet a complete explanation of the way vests are accounted and programmed on the backend, which is another reason I don't discuss them. And I haven't studied the code to figure it out. And I didn't find your explanation of them to be complete and unambiguous. If you'd like to cite a more canonical resource on vests, I'd appreciate that.

[smooth]

Who is the other larimer, what is his role, and does he have a nickname on steemit?

https://steemit.com/@stan

He has never had an officially-described role or title at Steemit afaik. Unofficially, I don' t know the relationship.

[iamnotback]

The platform is named steemit

Bands with crappy names: Beatles, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, The Who, Depeche Mode, The Cure....

You are a marketing neophyte. You continue to make numerous mistakes.

You're making an analogy between apple pie and baseball bats.

Usually the name of a band is not intended to implicitly describe the type of music the band creates, except perhaps in a very abstract and creative way (e.g. Smashing Pumpkins might make me think of punk rock). The band's music creates the emotional attachment and devotion, thus branding the name.

The name of a company, product, or service usually must convey what it does or is for (at least some connected meaning), as this is very important for viral spread and recall during viral mentions.

Steemit sounds like a porn site.

That is really, really bad. Again I refer you to the females who are stating how important it is that the site not be connotated with scams and negative things, in order for them to promote the site virally to their communities such as the one lady with 500 members in her cause oriented group.

When you get to nitpicking the name of a brand (unless it's Shitty McShitFace), then you are really scraping the barrel of valid concerns.

Sorry man but you've been completely off in left field during most of the recent discussion. I can't even understand what you are writing most of time (lately) and thus not replying. I don't mean to be disrespectful and maybe I am a literary dunce in your opinion because your text lately reads to me like gibberish (not referring to the post I am replying to). I was avoiding saying anything, but I guess it's better I inform you.

Hell, McDonalds has a purple pile of poo named Grimace as part of their mascot team (would have loved sit in on that meeting, "Hey, Bob, it's a giant purple shit named Grimace--and we're selling food?"

Grimace is targeted to kids. It is cartoon stuff.

You need to remember to apply context.


Edit: even an abstract name such as Google, is derived or similar to ogle or goggle, which connects some meaning to searching or looking into. Even Apple had a meaning at the start. The logo was an apple with a BYTE in it.