Steem pyramid scheme revealed

[iamnotback]

I don't understand why you have this subconscious desire to create controversy or friction by being so aggressive in your labeling. "Lies". Yeah... ok... and I've been told I can sell my junk on ebay, I listed them and nobody bought them. Those fuckin liars - nobody bought my garbage

I did put "lies" in quotes indicating that it is not exactly a literal usage. Do you have a better word for presenting to people that they can earn $1000s for blogging as the unique selling point which ends up not being true and the discord it causes epecially when they realize that whales are the primary deciders on all matters including allocation of rewards?

I also used the phrase "onboarding gimmick".

Perhaps I feel competitive and hope I can do better. But I don't think I've made a strong effort to spread animosity or false accusations.

Why is it you are so attached to Steem to be point of getting defensive? I mean I appreciate you encouraging me to blog on Steem. But why wouldn't you be open minded to what ever will end up being the best? Have you mined a large portion of Steem?

It's like what you said. Try to infer meaning from context. Obviously if you blog crap, you won't get paid.

Even if you don't blog crap and your content does not resonate with several whales, then you won't get paid (consumerate with your investment of effort).

Not that blogging ever did pay consumerately for most authors, but that is why most authors don't do it for the income, or just don't do it at all. Yet Steem is telling people they can do it and earn well. Which is not true.

I will grant you that the process is not consistent (casino effect) and this creates confusion and an emotional roller coaster for the author who feels rejected. And it also creates feelings of inadequacy in terms of relative worth (why is X making more than me).

The author is not in control of his performance with his readers. This is  fundamental error in the design. FUNDAMENTAL! It violates the entire ideological point that authors want to eliminate the gatekeepers.

It is not like the author is getting any other benefit, such as the music author who may be satisfied with the distribution even if not paid.

But the subtleties of human psychology are difficult to tackle effectively in any kind of similar system.

You often make these sort of absolutist statements (without any proof) and I laugh, because I will hopefully soon show that you are wrong.

As for the 1$, if you had 1$ / post in bitcointalk, you'd probably be making a living (by your asian country standards) by simply writing your opinions on crypto.

No one (other than a whale upvoting his own) is making $1 per (comment) post on Steem. The effort required to make a non-crap blog post is much more than effort to write a comment post here or there.

but on average they tend to accumulate.

You didn't consider the math, even I have already showed it to  you in this thread. Again you make me repeat the same points over and over. Go find that math.

It can't add up to more than very roughly about ~$50 a year per user if we had a uniform distribution (and worse without). That is assuming the usership is consumerate with the marketcap (on a per user valuation typical for social networks or even with a multiplier for the token commerce expectation aspect), which it currently isn't but the mcap is falling fast to bring it into alignment.

Note that in theory in the short-term speculative investors could pay users much more than the social networking valuation per user, because onboarding and growth are very valuable to building the token ecosystem. This is one of key insights in my design.

Edit: I agree that if there was a fun activity that users would do for free anyway and they were making a few $ per day on average, and they were at no disadvantage to not doing that activity on a more popular social network, then that wouldn't necessarily create disappointment. But when you put $1000s per blog post in front of people's faces as the UNIQUE SELLING POINT and they find out you need whales voting for you to earn that, then it is clearly seen as just yet another political failure. Authoring blog posts is not really a relaxing, stress-free, fun activity. It requires considerable effort and thought. You are not asking users to play around for a few $ per day. You are asking them to work hard for a few $ per day. You are treating them as a slave to whales. If the income was consistent, we could change "slave" to "employee", but it is not. Or if income was not under the control of whales, we could change "slave" to "entrepreneur" or "speculator".

Edit#2: even if you consider that bloggers may do so for free, they do it on a platform where they can meet their goals for distribution. The Steem circle-jerk ranking system will drive them away.

[AlexGR]

I am personally opposed to cultivating false expectations and in that we agree. However the platform itself is not saying come here and you'll get 1000$. From the steem.io site I see

Posting Rewards
Earn STEEM every time you post content valued by others.

Curation Rewards
Earn STEEM by being the first to upvote popular content

Commitment Rewards
Steem rewards long-term commitment!

Savings Rewards
Steem Dollar rewards bring stability to you

Mining Rewards
Earn STEEM by joining the peer-to-peer network and validating transactions.

Market Maker Rewards
A free STEEM / SBD exchange that pays you to trade

...so... maybe others are saying earn thousands but the official site is more "reserved" in the claims.

As for my investment in Steem, I'm less invested than you are. I've never engaged in mining it. I'm following the other selling point that blogging is the new mining and find that it works for me since it's making more than my dekstop mining some shitcoin. And being summer, I don't want extra heat in here. It is time consuming though and obviously there is opportunity cost if my time was spent elsewhere. To compensate for this time loss I've reduced my btctalk time.

About the authors and the readers having a fundamental connection, I agree. I'll have to wait to see what you come up with. Same with whales being the deciders and you having a different approach.

Regarding the 1$ per post, I meant it on average. I've probably made >1$ per post/comment on average. Some had pretty high upvote value like 100-200-300$ - so they cover the 0.01$ ones pretty fast. The introduction of the whale slidebar has reduced this kind of rewards as of late although I do get the occasional 10-20$ per comment...

[iamnotback]

Ah thanks I didn't realize you were actively trying to earn money that way. That is very exciting. If you are willing to expend that amount of effort there, then I hopefully you are going to love what I present, because your earnings will be much more deterministic.

My opportunity cost is too high to spend all my time thinking about how I might blog to maximize earnings. I'd have to be very adept at understanding the culture there and targeting it. In other words, I'd have to become fake (or create anonymous personas). That isn't for me. I want to be true to myself and receive appreciation or hate for who I am. I very much appreciated the ~$6000 of quick cash (cashed out already). I am very low on funds, but hopefully I will announce something very soon and we will be on our way. Yes I continue to pay my $256+$10 monthly child support (it was $1000s monthly until I became bankrupt) for one 17 year old. And I will spend ~$1500 - $2000 for upcoming semester of college education for my gf and her sister. The rest just surviving paying expenses @ $1600 monthly burn rate hoping to have something to show the community here asap. My gf is at her parent's home until 2nd week of October enabling me to focus on work (no one else here except the dog) and then she'll be busy in school during days so I won't be disturbed throughout the day. My gosh she got home and was doing a barbeque business daily but only generates ~$3 daily of profit and she has to feed the entire extended family (~10 people) with that! So I had to supplement another $3 per day for her, because she wasn't able to eat properly! I'd prefer to be able to help them more than that!

Although it seems $1s per day would be useful to people in that situation, they don't have the skills to be able to blog successfully enough to earn $1s per day. And they don't even have the desire to do so. It isn't an activity nor culture over there at Steem which fits. Also when gf is away from me, she doesn't even have regular access to the Internet because again of the lack of funds; and although hypothetically she could manage to get online to post a blog (if she was inclined to, which she isn't), she wouldn't be online continuously enough to learn and interact. She has been posting family photos to Facebook daily since she has been gone. I think the 33 cents I give her daily for mobile phone load enables her to have some limited bandwidth Facebook access with her Samsung smartphone. The major social networks have arrangements with the major telcoms here to offer free access.

I am very excited. I am trying to kick this health problem out because I am very excited and I know this is do or die time. I will write about this in other thread, because it is off-topic here.

Regarding the 1$ per post, I meant it on average. I've probably made >1$ per post/comment on average. Some had pretty high upvote value like 100-200-300$ - so they cover the 0.01$ ones pretty fast. The introduction of the whale slidebar has reduced this kind of rewards as of late although I do get the occasional 10-20$ per comment...

Again I don't trust your guesstimate math, because you've demonstrated in the past that you tend to not be very precise. It would be helpful if you'd go to steemd.com, tally this, and report back actual statistics on your usage and earnings.

Also I think you present not a mainstream case, because you were already expending much of your time over here at Bitcointalk, before you transferred much of your posting to Steem. And you apparently are motivated to work that hard for several $ per day on average. Statistics on your actual earnings would be helpful. This seems to explain your desire to add a $1 per day in earnings by displaying ads to non-registered readers. I didn't realize a $1 per day meant anything to anyone capable of blogging daily.

To get people in the developing world to treat this as a daily vocation, I think we will need to achieve about $10 per day average for the average user. I am in my design conceptualization preferring to assume most will instead will take it as a part-time, fun activity that is supplemental to their day jobs. Again realize they need to be able to pay Internet access from this, or if they can do it from work when they are bored and where they may have free WiFi access (e.g. saleslady in the mall, although they are often restricted from using their phones at work).

For developed world, and for the youth who are bored at home with free Internet access, perhaps $20 - $30 per day would be very motivational perhaps even enough to motivate several hours of daily effort. But if it was $5 or $10 per day and very part-time, fun, easy, and interesting on its own, that would be a potent synergy.

For the professional content creators, I have something potent to offer them.

[iamnotback]

Turn of events, the article by @msgivings instigated another blog author that had sort of irked me in the past, to write a blog that amazed me:

For me this was the most informational blog you've written. I appreciate this very much! This reaffirmed my theories, yet I also learned some new facets of the situation and you explained it all very logically. Your point about spoiled one-child princesses and princes is astounding! Well done.

Note I have a theory about Asian face. To grow rice requires a lot of human labor and coordination (water aqueducts, etc) unlike wheat or hunter gatherers. This requires extended families, tribes, and a lot of social harmony. Asians have very strong family and kinship ties and they depend very much on these. Whereas Westerners are willing to give the middle finger to their own families if necessary to rebel and make their mark. In short, Westerners take social risks that Asians do not. Another factor is the geographical isolation of Asia from invading armies (the mountains to the West of China and the Great Wall in the north). This lack of competition enabled Asia to become very stagnant. Japan is an isolated island. Ditto much of SE Asia.

Btw, it seems the potential solution to China's dilemma is to export its women and men. The expectations for men are less in other parts of the world, and there are a lot of Westerners with a house and car for Chinese women to aspire to. And Western men are typically handsome in that they are different, i.e. colored eyes, have a butt, larger bodies, etc.. Yet Westerners are not often conformists, so a Chinese female has to be willing to accept some radicalization but this may upset her applecart perspective too much, yet a bad boy image will appeal to the woman's hindbrain.

But China keeps insulating its people from the outside world. The corruption in your country won't allow external social networks to operate within your country.  The Taipans copy the external social networks and then create captive markets by excluding the foreign competition. So it seems China is locking itself internally into failure.

> going to concerts is considered an extravagence because the price of a ticket can be up to 7.5 times the price of a comparable ticket in the west. According to some statistics, one concert ticket costs an average of 17.24% of an individuals GDP. This compared to the US figure of 1.81%, Japan's 3.11% and UKs 2.87%

Why are Chinese concerts so expensive?

Pursuant to my other comment, I presume it is again an issue with lack of free market competition and corruption. A captured market.

Chinese has a serious problem.

> Since the ancient times, Chinese people have favoured white and fair skin.

I've noticed this throughout Asia a preference for white skin. I thought it might be because in the Philippines nearly everyone is brown and they grow weary of it. But now based on your comment, I am thinking the reason is because tanned skin is associated with laborers working in the farm. So to be white is to be rich and affluent and avoiding the harsh life of hard labor.

[iamnotback]

Steemit seems to have some resource issues. This blog page consumes more than 1 GB of memory on my Chrome on Linux:

https://steemit.com/synereo/@stellabelle/2-problems-plaguing-steemit-that-synereo-has-already-solved

It appears to be some inefficiency with the comments. I haven't delved into further.

[chryspano]

Steemit seems to have some resource issues. This blog page consumes more than 1 GB of memory on my Chrome on Linux:

https://steemit.com/synereo/@stellabelle/2-problems-plaguing-steemit-that-synereo-has-already-solved

It appears to be some inefficiency with the comments. I haven't delved into further.

180 MB opening it in chrome Windows and 260 MB if you scroll all the way down to the end of comments, are you sure it's a "Steemit issue"?

[iamnotback]

Steemit seems to have some resource issues. This blog page consumes more than 1 GB of memory on my Chrome on Linux:

https://steemit.com/synereo/@stellabelle/2-problems-plaguing-steemit-that-synereo-has-already-solved

It appears to be some inefficiency with the comments. I haven't delved into further.

180 MB opening it in chrome Windows and 260 MB if you scroll all the way down to the end of comments, are you sure it's a "Steemit issue"?

I am now getting 300+K but then it reduces to 200+K after some time.

Perhaps it was an issue with the state my browser was in at the time.

Could be some Javascript memory leak, that only clears when the GC has time to run perhaps... as I said I didn't delve into it further.

[iamnotback]

Synereo's main feature can be probably emulated on a global blockchain (e.g. Steem):

There is no way to prevent users from posting comments about anything to the block chain. Even if we establish a protocol to do that, developers can find ways to embed data and subvert it.

Synereo perhaps attempts to restrict data distribution to coteries by not putting all the data on a globally accessible blockchain. But even then, we can't control what others in our coteries choose to do with the data we've shared with them, i.e. they can distribute it outside our coterie. The only plausible way to prevent people from talking about you on a social network is to create obscure identities. Once you are a public figure, then people will talk about you and there is nothing you can do to stop this.  We can have a feature in which a blog author offers a recommended block list, but each reader's client program will be free to ignore it.

For those users who are not widely known, then I guess Synereo's local storage of data has the advantage that not all data can be easily found by anyone on a global blockchain. So individual privacy may be improved (at least if not w.r.t. to the NSA).

However it has the disadvantage that new readers can't just discover and browse. I've read that Medium has 20,000 weekly active bloggers serving 25 million readers.

We can simulate Synereo's private coteries on a public global blockchain by employing broadcast encryption.

Blocking your posts from readership is the antithesis of viral growth of the platform. You are being paid because you are supposed to be onboarding new users with your content.

It seems to me the only problem such stalkers can cause for your blogs is they can spam the comments. I think a feature which enables to you offer a recommended block list to your readers, is sufficient. Then your readers by default won't see the comments which you've chosen to block. But they can always see these, because demand will be such that clients will offer to display the blocked comments.

Synereo is like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. You don't want to kill readership as that is the entire point. Medium has 20,000 weekly bloggers serving 25 million monthly readers.

> In it's current state, Steemit will continue to have issues attracting that crowd away from their precious existing social media/blogging outlets. There are other ways to get tips on these other platforms and are far less "scary" than buying into a cryptocurrency on some "shady" exchange they've never heard of located in some country they've likely never been to all while reading how Bitcoin supports terrorism on their current choice of outlets.

Absolutely no way Synereo will gain any traction whatsoever.

[AlexGR]

Ah thanks I didn't realize you were actively trying to earn money that way.

I'm not... It's summer and I can't focus too much on the pc. If I were *focused* on it, I'd be maxing out 4 posts per day. Right now I'm probably doing probably 4-7 per week or something. And that's not good for maximizing income. I think the key to milking it, as I see others do, is to be there consistently and creating a brand of your name with multiple posts per day. Once you get the revenue coming, this creates a psychological anchor-trigger-response mechanism where curators go like "oh that guy posted, let's click now before other whales vote on him" and then every time you post you wait for the 15-20m mark and kaaachiiiiing. Curators won't even read what you wrote. They'll just vote on it, blindly - at most they'll skim it to see the topic, photos, etc to see it's properly presented and doesn't have anything very controversial, and then click.

That is very exciting. If you are willing to expend that amount of effort there, then I hopefully you are going to love what I present, because your earnings will be much more deterministic.

I'm curious as to how. I'll have to wait and see...

My opportunity cost is too high to spend all my time thinking about how I might blog to maximize earnings. I'd have to be very adept at understanding the culture there and targeting it.[ In other words, I'd have to become fake (or create anonymous personas). That isn't for me.
I want to be true to myself and receive appreciation or hate for who I am.

Understood.

My gosh she got home and was doing a barbeque business daily but only generates ~$3 daily of profit and she has to feed the entire extended family (~10 people) with that! So I had to supplement another $3 per day for her, because she wasn't able to eat properly! I'd prefer to be able to help them more than that!

Dafuq?

Again I don't trust your guesstimate math, because you've demonstrated in the past that you tend to not be very precise. It would be helpful if you'd go to steemd.com, tally this, and report back actual statistics on your usage and earnings.

Also I think you present not a mainstream case, because you were already expending much of your time over here at Bitcointalk, before you transferred much of your posting to Steem. And you apparently are motivated to work that hard for several $ per day on average. Statistics on your actual earnings would be helpful. This seems to explain your desire to add a $1 per day in earnings by displaying ads to non-registered readers. I didn't realize a $1 per day meant anything to anyone capable of blogging daily.

I agree I'm not a mainstream case, but the numbers are there. It took me quite a while to go over 45 pages of steemd history, but anyway here is the breakdown of comment-only rewards that exceed 1$.

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-sharkolate-please-read-voting-power-should-be-equal-vote-or-not-but-please-comment-last-post-didn-t-upload-correctly-20160718t014317683z"
sbd_payout   101.037 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-steempower-re-alexgr-re-steempower-help-me-what-key-points-should-we-focus-on-to-promote-steemit-to-a-wider-20160612t160855594z"
sbd_payout   16.486 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-steempower-help-me-what-key-points-should-we-focus-on-to-promote-steemit-to-a-wider-20160612t123102767z"
sbd_payout   17.148 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-dantheman-earn-13-per-year-with-these-low-risk-tax-free-inflation-protected-investments-20160531t062809267z"
sbd_payout   8.805 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-clayop-steem-passed-ethereum-s-number-of-transaction-and-will-pass-bitcoin-soon-20160721t082212770z"
sbd_payout   10.058 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-jsteck-re-cryptoctopus-witnesses-exposed-what-witnesses-has-done-for-us-this-week-first-edition-20160722t131213060z"
sbd_payout   1.829 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-cryptoctopus-witnesses-exposed-what-witnesses-has-done-for-us-this-week-first-edition-20160722t021210988z"
sbd_payout   3.489 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-hannahp-a-steemit-welcome-from-england-20160721t170554915z"
sbd_payout   2.889 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-complexring-chapter-6-old-friends-20160724t024738566z"
sbd_payout   3.451 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-jasonstaggers-how-my-most-painful-investing-mistake-could-make-you-a-steemillionaire-20160724t002415394z"
sbd_payout   60.318 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-recursive-re-masteryoda-fox-dives-headfirst-into-snow-20160724t034054958z"
sbd_payout   1.009 SBD

author_reward
author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-masteryoda-why-i-removed-all-my-posts-20160725t071916073z"
sbd_payout   177.270 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-ozchartart-usdsteem-btc-technical-analysis-20160726t045759842z"
sbd_payout   118.173 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-stellabelle-secret-writer-my-brother-s-heroin-addiction-destroyed-our-family-20160725t205409365z"
sbd_payout   1.808 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-jamtaylor-to-catch-a-whale-what-do-they-think-about-all-this-whale-talk-and-how-do-we-get-their-attention-20160727t230329783z"
sbd_payout   209.834 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-crossdresser-38-upvotes-and-not-1-single-cent-20160727t225648161z"
sbd_payout   1.461 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-winstonwolfe-lesson-learned-i-got-the-payout-i-deserved-get-your-post-perfect-before-posting-do-not-edit-it-20160729t070041973z"
sbd_payout   1.209 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-complexring-confessions-of-an-academic-postdoc-20160729t071110408z"
sbd_payout   3.488 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-cryptomarket-steemit-for-investors-2-how-steemit-will-revolutionize-online-advertising-by-tai-zen-and-leon-fu-dot-com-20160731t081630478z"
sbd_payout   3.933 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-egjoshslim-re-alexgr-re-egjoshslim-why-are-people-getting-butt-hurt-over-any-post-that-mention-any-issue-with-steemit-20160807t174952287z"
sbd_payout   7.513 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-egjoshslim-why-are-people-getting-butt-hurt-over-any-post-that-mention-any-issue-with-steemit-20160807t105603401z"
sbd_payout   18.793 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-stellabelle-secret-writer-i-feel-like-an-alien-among-people-in-my-country-20160815t165558736z"
sbd_payout   1.140 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-markrmorrisjr-an-open-letter-to-steemit-gods-dan-in-particular-are-you-trying-to-build-the-buzzfeed-of-the-blockchain-20160818t123636269z"
sbd_payout   2.678 SBD


author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-hitmeasap-steemians-what-the-hell-are-we-doing-here-what-happened-to-this-place-20160818t130610492z"
sbd_payout   2.972 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-algimantas-re-stellabelle-2-problems-plaguing-steemit-that-synereo-has-already-solved-20160828t182302775z"
sbd_payout   4.126 SBD

----

781 SBD. So the screen payouts would be 2082$ and the SBD+SP payout minus curation would be 1562$.

My post count is 1280, including blog entries, so it's definitely >1$/comment. (Again, I've not included all payouts less than 1$ - which add up too).

For developed world, and for the youth who are bored at home with free Internet access, perhaps $20 - $30 per day would be very motivational perhaps even enough to motivate several hours of daily effort. But if it was $5 or $10 per day and very part-time, fun, easy, and interesting on its own, that would be a potent synergy.

For the professional content creators, I have something potent to offer them.

The biggest problem, I think, is finding a continuous stream of money to pay. If you find that, then you have a solid basis to work.

[iamnotback]

I agree I'm not a mainstream case, but the numbers are there. It took me quite a while to go over 45 pages of steemd history, but anyway here is the breakdown of comment-only rewards that exceed 1$.

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-sharkolate-please-read-voting-power-should-be-equal-vote-or-not-but-please-comment-last-post-didn-t-upload-correctly-20160718t014317683z"
sbd_payout   101.037 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-jasonstaggers-how-my-most-painful-investing-mistake-could-make-you-a-steemillionaire-20160724t002415394z"
sbd_payout   60.318 SBD

author_reward
author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-masteryoda-why-i-removed-all-my-posts-20160725t071916073z"
sbd_payout   177.270 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-ozchartart-usdsteem-btc-technical-analysis-20160726t045759842z"
sbd_payout   118.173 SBD

author   "alexgr"
permlink   "re-jamtaylor-to-catch-a-whale-what-do-they-think-about-all-this-whale-talk-and-how-do-we-get-their-attention-20160727t230329783z"
sbd_payout   209.834 SBD

----

781 SBD. So the screen payouts would be 2082$ and the SBD+SP payout minus curation would be 1562$.

My post count is 1280, including blog entries, so it's definitely >1$/comment. (Again, I've not included all payouts less than 1$ - which add up too).

All of those comment homeruns occurred in July when whales were not diluting their votes sufficiently. Competition was low and the market cap was a peak in July. You haven't hit any comment homeruns in more than month.

The rest of your income and the only significant income you are earning recently come from blog posts, not comments.

Thus your actual earnings per comment are much below $1 as I predicted.

I knew comments would become nearly worthless once the whales started diluting their votes.

[AlexGR]

My comment posting is not steady though - I was writing more in July than now - and that's like buying more lottery tickets (casino effect) to hit the jackpot but as I said earlier the introduction of the sliding bar kind of eliminated the jackpot effect, and, in a way, disincentivized commenting.

The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?" Personally I don't do that - I comment on what I find interesting - if my time allows of course (lately that's not so much the case) disregarding the incentives or disincentives. If I want to be near the 1$ per comment mark, I actually think I can do that - even now with the payout reduction and slidebars. BUT... I'd have to not write on topics that are of interest to me and only in things which might have good upvote potential. This can also be antisocial / rude (for example realizing you'll get 0$ if you continue a conversation or answer something, and not wanting to answer it just to keep your $/comment rate high... obviously this is not a good thing to do in terms of human interaction).

[iamnotback]

My comment posting is not steady though - I was writing more in July than now - and that's like buying more lottery tickets (casino effect) to hit the jackpot but as I said earlier the introduction of the sliding bar kind of eliminated the jackpot effect, and, in a way, disincentivized commenting.

The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?" Personally I don't do that - I comment on what I find interesting - if my time allows of course (lately that's not so much the case) disregarding the incentives or disincentives. If I want to be near the 1$ per comment mark, I actually think I can do that - even now with the payout reduction and slidebars. BUT... I'd have to not write on topics that are of interest to me and only in things which might have good upvote potential. This can also be antisocial / rude (for example realizing you'll get 0$ if you continue a conversation or answer something, and not wanting to answer it just to keep your $/comment rate high... obviously this is not a good thing to do in terms of human interaction).

For too much cognitive load for mainstream people to think about.

Bottom line is most people won't be earning $1 per comment post.

[AlexGR]

My comment posting is not steady though - I was writing more in July than now - and that's like buying more lottery tickets (casino effect) to hit the jackpot but as I said earlier the introduction of the sliding bar kind of eliminated the jackpot effect, and, in a way, disincentivized commenting.

The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?" Personally I don't do that - I comment on what I find interesting - if my time allows of course (lately that's not so much the case) disregarding the incentives or disincentives. If I want to be near the 1$ per comment mark, I actually think I can do that - even now with the payout reduction and slidebars. BUT... I'd have to not write on topics that are of interest to me and only in things which might have good upvote potential. This can also be antisocial / rude (for example realizing you'll get 0$ if you continue a conversation or answer something, and not wanting to answer it just to keep your $/comment rate high... obviously this is not a good thing to do in terms of human interaction).

For too much cognitive load for mainstream people to think about.

Bottom line is most people won't be earning $1 per comment post.

Yep, not likely.

[smooth]

The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?"

I'm not at all convinced the "average poster" will think that. The subset of users who are trying to be professionals or are gamers by nature may do that, but many will not. What you are doing in terms of commenting and posting whenever you feel like it, and the rewards are whatever they are (and always infinitely more than reddit or Facebook), seems quite typical to me. If that were not the case there would be even fewer users since most don't earn much if at all. That people continue to participate despite very modest rewards in most cases supports this model.

[AlexGR]

Yeah I think "average" is exaggerated. No it's not average behavior, indeed. It's gaming behavior like the one we had around a month ago.

There was an initial surge in comments and you could see people were trying to game it. There were bots making automated "conversation", there were human bots writing something like "wow very helpful!!!", there were people who didn't even read what you wrote and commented something that was irrelevant or half-relevant (some still do it), there were people who were posting (intelligent) comments in a serial fashion trying to make a buck, etc etc.

As rewards dropped and as the flagging threat elevated, it kind of slowed down. There still is some gaming attempted (bots running around and making idiotic comments, or upvoting old posts and saying "upvoted you") but it'll probably slow down further.

If that were not the case there would be even fewer users since most don't earn much if at all. That people continue to participate despite very modest rewards in most cases supports this model.

Yep...

[iamnotback]

The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?"

I'm not at all convinced the "average poster" will think that. The subset of users who are trying to be professionals or are gamers by nature may do that, but many will not. What you are doing in terms of commenting and posting whenever you feel like it, and the rewards are whatever they are (and always infinitely more than reddit or Facebook), seems quite typical to me. If that were not the case there would be even fewer users since most don't earn much if at all. That people continue to participate despite very modest rewards in most cases supports this model.

Agree. I continue to comment on issues that are important to me and has nothing to do with whether I will get paid. I was surprised to receive $11 for a comment I made on @stellabelle's recent blog about Synereo (well that is because you and several others upvoted it). But I am not going out-of-my-way to go comment there. Just on issues that I feel are important when I happen to check the top ranked posts on the site.

The issue is not that of those who bothered to join and continue to use the site, that those people won't comment without getting paid. Rather the issue is what incentive do millions of people have to join Steemit and how many tokens can we widely distribute (to millions of REAL HUMAN users, not Sybil attacks which may be the bulk of new signups) both of which are necessary to build a commerce ecosystem which could justify the entire project. I am not seeing it and the stats are tending to prove I was correct in my assumption. Yes other ecosystem apps may be on the way, so we will have to see how that might change matters, but I doubt they will implement any activity and rewards scheme which accomplishes the goal. Why? Because they think differently than I do.

My point about the comment rewards was simply that a couple $s per day is not very motivating for most people. And the activity on the site is not that compelling for most people. There are already other blogging sites as well. And much larger audiences.

You've got some hardcore crypto enthusiasts hanging in there, but you do not have any traction whatsoever in gaining the mainstream. Now some argue that from a niche demographic, you can bootstrap to a wider demographic, e.g. Facebook launched to college students initially.

But realize please that college students are already a diverse mainstream demographic (not a pigeon-hole circle-jerk of cryptogeeks and their gfs, although I've seen a few content authors who might have been entirely from outside of crypto but i am not sure and they don't appear to be numerous). And what Facebook was offering was unique, new, and compelling to the mainstream.

If we were paying well the users, then that would be something unique, new, and perhaps compelling to the mainstream. But we aren't. That was my point.

All the stats are flat to declining since July. Again perhaps some ecosystem developments can change that. I do not expect it. I've been observing carefully the ideas people have been tossing around that I have had the opportunity to read about and I haven't seen anything yet that would change my expectation. I certainly not aware of all the developments though.

I hope that is a balanced assessment. I am obviously biased because I think I have a better idea and design. So readers should take my bias and potential subjectivity into consideration. Then again, @smooth and others perhaps are biased the other direction.

[serejandmyself]

The average poster will think "if I can gain more by blogging, why waste my time commenting?"

I'm not at all convinced the "average poster" will think that. The subset of users who are trying to be professionals or are gamers by nature may do that, but many will not. What you are doing in terms of commenting and posting whenever you feel like it, and the rewards are whatever they are (and always infinitely more than reddit or Facebook), seems quite typical to me. If that were not the case there would be even fewer users since most don't earn much if at all. That people continue to participate despite very modest rewards in most cases supports this model.

To add more, if someone thinks that they can earn by blogging without commenting, they are a bit strange.... i really havent met a person who thinks that he can ride a car but doesnt need to tace care of it every now and again.

Of course no one makes anyone comment, but the mere fact of a social network (which is what steemit is so far) is to share once thoughts, comment, post, like, unline... participate

[Zer0Sum]

My point about the comment rewards was simply that a couple $s per day is not very motivating for most people. And the activity on the site is not that compelling for most people. There are already other blogging sites as well. And much larger audiences.

You've got some hardcore crypto enthusiasts hanging in there, but you do not have any traction whatsoever in gaining the mainstream. Now some argue that from a niche demographic, you can bootstrap to a wider demographic, e.g. Facebook launched to college students initially.

But realize please that college students are already a diverse mainstream demographic (not a pigeon-hole circle-jerk of cryptogeeks and their gfs, although I've seen a few content authors who might have been entirely from outside of crypto but i am not sure and they don't appear to be numerous). And what Facebook was offering was unique, new, and compelling to the mainstream.

This pretty much sums it up and explains the 50% decline in usage in one month...
And the idea that professional writers were to be hosted on Steemit is a distant, abandoned illusion.

Then it gets interesting as Dan today posts a call to Revolution...
To build an "illusive utopia" and a "new social structure", etc.

https://steemit.com/philosophy/@dantheman/why-do-we-fight-to-change-the-world


On it's face this is a perfectly decent article of millennial, crypto-anarchist rhetoric...
In a cozy American world where you've never missed a meal and Hitler is a Youtube meme...
And dedicated Islamists with dirty nuclear bombs and mutant viruses can be safely ignored for a few more years.   

But the author seems unaware that he recently recreated the Medieval Order on a blockchain...
Where 50 rich Lords rule over large masses of penniless Serfs for all eternity...
In fact, eerily similar to the Hunger Games where Lords dispense lottery rewards to the odd Serf...
Something that can be viewed as "utopia" only by a rich Lord.

Personally, I would prefer a realistic Roadmap and Business Plan (in addition to the call for Revolution).

[iamnotback]

Personally, I would prefer a realistic Roadmap and Business Plan (in addition to the call for Revolution).

Agreed.

Also agreed very much with how you characterized it in your post. The rhetoric is acceptable (perhaps even inspiring, but more inspiring are results) if it accompanies a realistic improvement in the state-of-affairs.

Then again, I still want to show some appreciation for what they have demonstrated. They have demonstrated some important facets and opened the eyes of investors to what might be possible.

I personally am okay with if they can extract some profit from this experiment. I feel they've worked hard and made some changes in the crypto world. Of course it helps that I am not the one who invested any money in it. For those that did, all I can say is that they can learn.

And again, I want to reiterate that it is not unfathomable that via open source ecosystem developments, that Steem could end up something more than what it is today. Because I don't want Steem supporters to think I am totally closed minded to that possibility. I just don't view it as likely because of the whale dynamics of the (reward and DPoS) system.

I continue to support Steem as a valuable experiment. No matter what happens, we are learning. We can apply those lessons to the next improvement.


Redacted mention of my vaporware, was moved to the appropriate thread.

[iamnotback]

Okay this seems to be an ideological protest of banks, not a fleeing to a safer store-of-value...

Yeah that did seem to kinda come along with the sort of Occupy Wallstreet movements, but that seemed too frivolous to actually become substantial and sustained.

...

I don't think we will get mass adoption with ideology for numerous reasons:

1. Ideological priorities are not unified all over the world. Philippines has acted forcefully on anti-corruption by electing Durterte! Westerners are apparently too divided to get it done (quickly, e.g. BREXIT an arduous process).
2. Ideology runs in short phases and not sustainable.
3. Humans are more self-interested and any ideological BS is usually when they are wasting time (and they eventually realize it).

I believe we only reach our goal by giving people something they selfishly need and want (and it must also be fun), which they can't get otherwise.

Did @dantheman read the above post of mine?

Privatized Costs and Socialized Benefits

The core problem with absolutely every resistance movement is a tragedy of the commons. We all want to be free to live our lives in peace and no one wants to face jail time or death by government. The costs to the individual are immediate and potentially infinite, but the benefits they receive, if any, accrue to the masses of ungrateful strangers way in the future, if ever.

This economic reality means that most resistance movements do not gather supporters until the supporters have nothing left to lose. In other words, until the cost of participation falls below the perceived benefit (almost 0). At some point people are willing to die and at this point they are willing to take extreme risks with low probability of payout.

It seems Dan has never struggled with chronic illness or chronic poverty:

Those who practice meditation or follow Eckhart Tolle know that all suffering is something we put ourselves through by resisting the world as it is now, this very moment.

Try explaining to my gf last week when she couldn't afford to eat more than once daily (just some rice and salt), that meditation can cure all suffering. She was extremely irritable on the phone and her ulcer was flaring up. I sent her an additional $3 per day to supplement her nutrition (we had an agreement that she was going to try her best to see if she could survive doing her mother's barbecue business for 1 month while I work hard here). Her family is suffering and I wish I could help them more. Hopefully soon I will be able to. She will return in October to attend school and she will eat well here with me. Note I had already given her about $150 for her bus travel, and she spent remainder on school supplies for the kids there. Also she prioritized soap and cleanliness.

That is indicative of how I characterize the prominent culture of Steemit. Which zeroSum summed up nicely. Many (top ranked blogs) are into BS/useless mental babble, philosophy. Americans used to be "uncultured" (Europeans said we were unsophisticated) pragmatic doers.

Freudian slip or does he mean to avoid a world governance?

Each day I act to bring about a non-violent solutions to world governance

If I wanted to waste some time, I could write a rebuttal entitled:

Every Megadeath Originates With an Idealistic Propaganda Culture (e.g. Non-Violence)