Steem pyramid scheme revealed

[iamnotback]

Furthermore Steem is undergoing the normal technology adoption curve, just as Bitcoin did with a spike to $30 then drop to $1, then spike to $1200 with a drop to $150. So we can expect Steem to rise again above $4 (maybe not 40X higher than $4 because of greater inflation than Bitcoin at the first year? I haven't compared.).

[1715146124]

1715146124

[mtnsaa]

I don't have any speculation capital right now

I never had any "speculation capital" in my whole life.  It must be like that "disposable income" that you 1% 'ers have that everyone else on the planet has never experienced.  This is why STEEM is the first digital currency that benefits its users more than its early speculators because it is the first digital currency that encourages newbies to earn it (by performing some useful work for the commnity) instead of buying it.

That's the most stupid (or genius) idea I've ever read in my life. Let's all earn some Steem while idiots buy and pay for our ramblings, haha. These guys created the perfect ponzi scheme and you can't really accuse them of anything because they will keep it going as long as people keep buying Steem. They won't run away and they will even implement new features and changes to tweak it and give the users the false sense that they are improving the system. I'm sure that this was the plan all along.

The bottomline is that, as long as there's people buying Steem the platform will stay alive. "Speculators" are catching up slowly though (they seem to have discovered the zoom all feature at Poloniex!).

[iamnotback]

@mtnsaa, perhaps you missed the key points:

• Bitcoin's scalepocalypse is insoluble.
• Steem scales better (though there will be issues eventually but not near-term).
• Steem's inflation will apparently soon be on par with Bitcoin's at the same junction in their comparative histories.

Speculators buy value low, sell high on the dump to those who are late. Don't be late.

The onboarding and blogging crap is just (for now at least, with unfathomable potential upside if new paradigms are experimented) some promotional hype noise icing on the cake. Focus on the currency itself.

[mtnsaa]

@mtnsaa, perhaps you missed the key points:

• Bitcoin's scalepocalypse is insoluble.
• Steem scales better (though there will be issues eventually but not near-term).
• Steem's inflation will apparently soon be on par with Bitcoin's at the same junction in their comparative histories.

Speculators buy value low, sell high on the dump to those who are late. Don't be late.

The onboarding and blogging crap is just (for now at least, with unfathomable potential upside if new paradigms are experimented) some promotional hype noise icing on the cake. Focus on the currency itself.

What's the value in Steem as a currency compared to the other hundreds of other options that already scale better than Bitcoin? I don't see anything of value in owning Steem or Steem Power unless I'm missing some recent news. Will they implement a cap like with Bitshares?

[iamnotback]

What's the value in Steem as a currency compared to the other hundreds of other options that already scale better than Bitcoin?

What scales better than Bitcoin and has a reasonable level of seed adoption already?

(And has potential upside as a data storage blockchain)

I don't see anything of value in owning Steem or Steem Power unless I'm missing some recent news. Will they implement a cap like with Bitshares?

Perhaps because you believe technological lies such as Dash InstantX being secure and scaling? Or you believe the lie that Monero's blocksize adjustment algorithm isn't also a Tragedy of the Commons same as Bitcoin?

(when I speak such truths, I get despised by the proponents of those projects, so I don't repeat that often anymore, but it doesn't mean my technical point was vacated)

Edit: these technical points will be made unequivocal when I release my white paper. So I won't bother to debate it technically right now. Loss of valuable time and will create rancor and acrimony.

[mtnsaa]

What's the value in Steem as a currency compared to the other hundreds of other options that already scale better than Bitcoin?

What scales better than Bitcoin and has a reasonable level of seed adoption already?

(And has potential upside as a data storage blockchain)

I don't see anything of value in owning Steem or Steem Power unless I'm missing some recent news. Will they implement a cap like with Bitshares?

Perhaps because you believe technological lies such as Dash InstantX being secure and scaling? Or you believe the lie that Monero's blocksize adjustment algorithm isn't also a Tragedy of the Commons same as Bitcoin?

(when I speak such truths, I get despised by the proponents of those projects, so I don't repeat that often anymore, but it doesn't mean my technical point was vacated)

I'm sorry, I don't understand many technical aspects and from your comments here you are way more adept than most trolls in this board. With that being said, while I don't hold (and actually dislike) both Dash and Monero, those are just as valid if not more battle tested than Steem.

I'm not sure how many actual active users are on Steem, but I doubt there are more than 5k right now, that's nothing in my opinion. I'm on Steemit and I just go to power down weekly (never bought a single Steem, I got paid for some posts early on). So I'm not an active user but I'm sure they count me as one. The hype is already gone, there could be a spike in prices but never like when it started, the whole gimmicky 10-30k payouts was the only reason of its success and interest from people. You take that away you have nothing in terms of fundamentals.

Fund managers like the guy from coinfund.io got burned, very smart people with degrees made an ass of themselves. There may be a spike I'm not denying that but unless the whole thing changes and develop some killer features this is doomed.

[brekyrself]

...There may be a spike I'm not denying that but unless the whole thing changes and develop some killer features this is doomed.

Steem itself is the "killer" feature.  It is by no means perfect however attracts an audience outside of the crypto space.  Steem can expand beyond simple blogging.

-Investigative stories/news going back to individuals who can be rewarded for their work.
-DIY forums where users can be rewarded for their help to others.
-Why own a website that rely's on ad's for revenue anymore?  Post solid content and get rewarded.
-Online censorship issues.

Steem is just a beta version and it will be interesting to see where this goes.  Blockchains will not solve all issues however the concept of Steem can find a niche.


The dev's don't seem to be standing still either: https://github.com/steemit/steem/commits/develop

[mtnsaa]

...There may be a spike I'm not denying that but unless the whole thing changes and develop some killer features this is doomed.

Steem itself is the "killer" feature.  It is by no means perfect however attracts an audience outside of the crypto space.  Steem can expand beyond simple blogging.

-Investigative stories/news going back to individuals who can be rewarded for their work.
-DIY forums where users can be rewarded for their help to others.
-Why own a website that rely's on ad's for revenue anymore?  Post solid content and get rewarded.
-Online censorship issues.

Steem is just a beta version and it will be interesting to see where this goes.  Blockchains will not solve all issues however the concept of Steem can find a niche.


The dev's don't seem to be standing still either: https://github.com/steemit/steem/commits/develop

You can say that just about any other crypto project (social media oriented or not). Steem only managed to attract attention because of those gimmicky payouts, now it's a wasteland and it will continue to be so. I see more potential for a bounce in a project like LBRY than Steem if that's the case because you would actually need lbry credits to purchase content.

Many of you are just wishful thinking, if Steemit do this or that or implement such feature. The bottomline is that it's still a circle jerk, everyone will be powering down forever. There's no bottom, inflation keeps piling up and it will hit 10k, then 5k, then 1k, and if it keeps going to more than 1 billion Steem supply then it will be below that, 700-500 sats, like Bitshares. Clear as water.

[iamnotback]

I see more potential for a bounce in a project like LBRY...

Note I have been a major critic of Steem, so I am not being subjective here w.r.t to a comparison of Steem to LBRY. I don't care if my measily 5000 STEEM POWER ever get cashed out at anything significant, as I have bigger fish to fry (that is small potatoes for me).

Ahem you haven't read this thread...

LBRY intends to compete but I don't see what they have that is compelling:

DOA. Not paid to join. Referral programs can be Sybil attacked:

https://lbry.io/faq/referrals

Right there it tells me they don't appear to know what they are doing.

$1.2 billion marketcap? Why not listed on coinmarketcap? And what is the sign up rate (2000? but are those Sybil accounts)? Sounds like BS to me.

Can't find any info on how they plan to scale a PoW blockchain   It is proof-of-work I presume since they talk about ongoing token issuance.

No white paper!

Edit: it is based on Bitcoin block chain so I don't see how it can scale:

https://lbry.io/news/5-questions-about-lbry

Perhaps they are not putting most of the activity on the blockchain. Perhaps they are putting only the tokens on the blockchain. Even so, it won't scale!

Ah they don't have a clue about social networking. Users change names like the wind. Names are not as important as the connections or links.

https://github.com/lbryio/lbrycrd

Edit#2: they are praying for the arrival and correct functioning of Lightning Networks:

https://lbry.io/news/why-doesnt-lbry-just-use-bitcoin

Edit#3: they do plan to give away tokens and have a HUGE premine:

Currently, 250 thousand LBRY credits (LBC) are in circulation. Over the next year, that number will rise to roughly 80 million just through mining. LBRY Inc. has reserved 200 million for adoption programs, and we intend to deploy them widely over the coming years to give millions of users their first taste of a truly free market in media. There’s also another 200 million LBC split between a company reserve and charitable/institutional programs that might stay static for a while, but not forever.

[iamnotback]

...everyone will be powering down forever. There's no bottom, inflation keeps piling up and it will hit 10k, then 5k, then 1k, and if it keeps going to more than 1 billion Steem supply then it will be below that, 700-500 sats, like Bitshares. Clear as water.

Inflation is slowing down (~200% now) and will reach a steady rate of 100% per year later in 2017. Bitcoin had > 100% inflation at its inception, but Bitcoin's inflation (debasement is correct term!) is slowing down to less much less than 100% by now.

That inflation doesn't apply to those who POWER UP their STEEM to STEEM POWER. The coming change is to reduce the POWER DOWN delay from 2 years (1 year weighted average) to 3 months (1.5 months weighted average).

So this means more and more speculators can join in POWER UP and not be subject to any inflation at all. However if all those who earn rewards are powering down and selling, then there will be downward selling pressure but this might be offset by speculative demand and moreover by whales becoming smart and only rewarding those who don't power down.

Sorry you really don't have all the facts.

Edit: But I do agree there could yet be a major selloff when the change to 3 month power down is released, as that will weed out those who want out from those who want to accumulate and turn it into a system where those who power down are not rewarded. The whales control who is rewarded. They will want those bloggers who are committed to growing the system.

Note I do think the voting reward system is the Achilles Heel of the entire thing. So I don't see a long-term future unless they get rid of that. Yet I don't see a long-term future for Bitcoin either.

[mtnsaa]

I see more potential for a bounce in a project like LBRY...

Note I have been a major critic of Steem, so I am not being subjective here w.r.t to a comparison of Steem to LBRY. I don't care if my measily 5000 STEEM POWER ever get cashed out at anything significant, as I have bigger fish to fry (that is small potatoes for me).

Ahem you haven't read this thread...

LBRY intends to compete but I don't see what they have that is compelling:

DOA. Not paid to join. Referral programs can be Sybil attacked:

https://lbry.io/faq/referrals

Right there it tells me they don't appear to know what they are doing.

$1.2 billion marketcap? Why not listed on coinmarketcap? And what is the sign up rate (2000? but are those Sybil accounts)? Sounds like BS to me.

Can't find any info on how they plan to scale a PoW blockchain   It is proof-of-work I presume since they talk about ongoing token issuance.

No white paper!

Edit: it is based on Bitcoin block chain so I don't see how it can scale:

https://lbry.io/news/5-questions-about-lbry

Perhaps they are not putting most of the activity on the blockchain. Perhaps they are putting only the tokens on the blockchain. Even so, it won't scale!

Ah they don't have a clue about social networking. Users change names like the wind. Names are not as important as the connections or links.

https://github.com/lbryio/lbrycrd

Edit#2: they are praying for the arrival and correct functioning of Lightning Networks:

https://lbry.io/news/why-doesnt-lbry-just-use-bitcoin

Edit#3: they do plan to give away tokens and have a HUGE premine:

Currently, 250 thousand LBRY credits (LBC) are in circulation. Over the next year, that number will rise to roughly 80 million just through mining. LBRY Inc. has reserved 200 million for adoption programs, and we intend to deploy them widely over the coming years to give millions of users their first taste of a truly free market in media. There’s also another 200 million LBC split between a company reserve and charitable/institutional programs that might stay static for a while, but not forever.

I didn't say it was perfect, I said it could definitely bounce from this bottom. It can still go to 1k or lower though. The point is, crypto is all hype and once LBRY opens up to the public I think it will rally just on news and exclusive releases alone, it has that cool kid factor in my opinion.

I do have the same doubts as you but the team is well connected in the industry and is backed by a huge VC firm (funded and built TripAdvisor, DraftKings among others...). They have been very open about the premine and how it will be used. Now will all that being said, I think they are a little incompetent and naive on how they've been doing things so far. I really not see any corruption or morally dubious approach in their doings, quite the contrary they've managed to "lose" a lot of money with this strategy and mining distribution.

[mtnsaa]

...everyone will be powering down forever. There's no bottom, inflation keeps piling up and it will hit 10k, then 5k, then 1k, and if it keeps going to more than 1 billion Steem supply then it will be below that, 700-500 sats, like Bitshares. Clear as water.

Inflation is slowing down (~200% now) and will reach a steady rate of 100% per year later in 2017. Bitcoin had > 100% inflation at its inception, but Bitcoin's inflation (debasement is correct term!) is slowing down to less much less than 100% by now.

That inflation doesn't apply to those who POWER UP their STEEM to STEEM POWER. The coming change is to reduce the POWER DOWN delay from 2 years (1 year weighted average) to 3 months (1.5 months weighted average).

So this means more and more speculators can join in POWER UP and not be subject to any inflation at all. However if all those who earn rewards are powering down and selling, then there will be downward selling pressure but this might be offset by speculative demand and moreover by whales becoming smart and only rewarding those who don't power down.

Sorry you really don't have all the facts.

Inflation doesn't mean much if you know the actual supply, it can effectively drive the price low for a while but not for long. For example nobody actually knows the total supply of Ethereum, it can be infinite but the inflation is not really that crazy, so people have confidence on it. "Only" 100% inflation per year without a cap is crazy if you ask me and I'm the average person who should be trading or investing on Steem.

Take Factom, it only has 8 million supply, but once M3 kicks in and federated servers are designated 73k FCT will be created per month. This isn't "crazy" inflation although it's quite considerable and that's almost one of the only factors that is keeping the price so low. Investors don't think there would be enough entry credits to burn that much FCT.

[iamnotback]

I augmented my prior comment post.

I'm sorry, I don't understand many technical aspects and from your comments here you are way more adept than most trolls in this board. With that being said, while I don't hold (and actually dislike) both Dash and Monero, those are just as valid if not more battle tested than Steem.

Well I am talking about scaling to millions and millions of users with 2 second transaction confirmations.

Nothing but DPoS has a prayer of doing that afaics. And even DPoS will run into problems at that scale (for political economic and liveness reasons those Bitshares' devs apparently didn't yet consider).

Note Ark is also DPoS.

[iamnotback]

Inflation doesn't mean much if you know the actual supply, it can effectively drive the price low for a while but not for long. For example nobody actually knows the total supply of Ethereum, it can be infinite but the inflation is not really that crazy, so people have confidence on it. "Only" 100% inflation per year without a cap is crazy if you ask me and I'm the average person who should be trading or investing on Steem.

Take Factom, it only has 8 million supply, but once M3 kicks in and federated servers are designated 73k FCT will be created per month. This isn't "crazy" inflation although it's quite considerable and that's almost one of the only factors that is keeping the price so low. Investors don't think there would be enough entry credits to burn that much FCT.

I entirely agree that CONFIDENCE is what determines the value of money. I have an entire thread about that recently.

But I am not so sure we are speculating on monetary systems here. Otherwise we wouldn't be so jizzed about Bitcoin.

Any way, your point is well taken that Steem is sort of a discombobulated Rube Goldberg machine that no one quite understands entirely. You may be correct. Very likely are. I just don't see any point of logging in every week to sell my $6 of power down. Might as well hold it and see what happens. Hedging my bets given that opportunity cost in nil (and actually a pita).

Meanwhile I am working on something very serious.

[iamnotback]

I know of something very simple Steem could do which would radically shift the investment case in the project to viable. But I am not sharing because it would be giving away one of the ideas I have for my project. But I think it is likely they will realize this simple change. So I will not waste my time powering down for $6 weekly, when there is a significant chance that Steem will get fixed and move much higher.

Steem has much more momentum than LBRY and LBRY can't scale.

DPoS can scale (although I don't think it can scale to even Medium's size). Other DPoS choice is Ark which has no momentum yet and unproven.

[mtnsaa]

I know of something very simple Steem could do which would radically shift the investment case in the project to viable. But I am not sharing because it would be giving away one of the ideas I have for my project. But I think it is likely they will realize this simple change. So I will not waste my time powering down for $6 weekly, when there is a significant chance that Steem will get fixed and move much higher.

Steem has much more momentum than LBRY and LBRY can't scale.

DPoS can scale (although I don't think it can scale to even Medium's size). Your other choice is Ark which is DPoS.

I personally keep powering down because every week I get less and less. I also get a similar amount but next week it will be $3 and so on. And if Steem ever go back to $1-2 then I would still have some to keep selling. So it's the same argument, not powering down can generate a little more, but it's not worth it. I can invest those $6 into LBRY for example and wait for a bounce once they come out of beta (even if I agree with most of your points against it).

Not one crypto project can actually scale though, not even Ethereum which aims to be the world computer!

[Gash]

The STEEM inflation emission curve will mirror that of bitcoin.

Its not emission that matters damn college analysts, its inactivity in markets that burns the least shred of credibility theyve ever had.

If u wanna write a digest probing their credibility ask them first to sustain the irregular 5-month-long uptrending trip back to 0.003.

What will happen to the STEEM price, when the digital currency speculators are finally allowed to buy and hold without the fear of any inflation rate beyond that of bitcoin.

Means nothing when theres no demand. See the answer above. No one is questioning the supply discharge since its unrelated to inactivity in markets. Few dudes who invested had probably been in denial for quite a while when exited. Poor asses.

STEEM already does half the transactional volume as bitcoin, and it's market cap is 1/5OOth of bitcoin's.  Which way are these natural free market numbers going next?

Is a lunatic chain, and fucked up big time. None of the numbers are indicative of the cap growth relative to the quantity of crisp cash pooled in. In laymen terms, $1 buy can flip the cap of any chain to $1000 trillion. Assuming that u either own the whole supply or run a private chain.

I wont cite another rambling u posted. Basically it carries the same message.

[theothersmith]

I have never seen a coin lose 95% of its value in such a manner.  The news sites nor the devs are saying anything about it either.  This is what hurts the entire ecosystem.

[Fuserleer]

I augmented my prior comment post.

I'm sorry, I don't understand many technical aspects and from your comments here you are way more adept than most trolls in this board. With that being said, while I don't hold (and actually dislike) both Dash and Monero, those are just as valid if not more battle tested than Steem.

Well I am talking about scaling to millions and millions of users with 2 second transaction confirmations.

Nothing but DPoS has a prayer of doing that afaics. And even DPoS will run into problems at that scale (for political economic and liveness reasons those Bitshares' devs apparently didn't yet consider).

Note Ark is also DPoS.

I must say I'm surprised to see you throwing support at DPoS when considering some of the threads and arguments you've posted in the past.  DPoS is semi-centralization, with barriers to entry and friction which will ultimately centralize over time.  Do you have a variant that mitigates those properties?

Also why 2 second transaction confirmations?  10 seconds is more than sufficient and alleviates a shit ton of headaches.

[iamnotback]

I augmented my prior comment post.

I'm sorry, I don't understand many technical aspects and from your comments here you are way more adept than most trolls in this board. With that being said, while I don't hold (and actually dislike) both Dash and Monero, those are just as valid if not more battle tested than Steem.

Well I am talking about scaling to millions and millions of users with 2 second transaction confirmations.

Nothing but DPoS has a prayer of doing that afaics. And even DPoS will run into problems at that scale (for political economic and liveness reasons those Bitshares' devs apparently didn't yet consider).

Note Ark is also DPoS.

I must say I'm surprised to see you throwing support at DPoS when considering some of the threads and arguments you've posted in the past.  DPoS is semi-centralization, with barriers to entry and friction which will ultimately centralize over time.  Do you have a variant that mitigates those properties?

Also why 2 second transaction confirmations?  10 seconds is more than sufficient and alleviates a shit ton of headaches.

Oh for sure, DPoS has significant vulnerabilities they never tell us about:

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/#example-2-delegated-proof-of-stake-dpos

It won't be as secure, fast (low-latency), and reliable as they want us to believe. Just wait until it scales up and the incentives to attack increase. And the scaling pressure has increased.

Yes of course I think I have a solution. Finally! As you well know, how difficult it is to find a solution. When you finally get one that can be written down with math to make very convincing, then it is difficult to not want to shout it to world (prematurely).

I am also surprised that I abandoned unprofitable PoW entirely.


You must be really busy programming. You, Dan, Charles, Smooth, etc don't post here often any more. Fluffypony and other XMR devs haven't ever (or not for a long-time) post frequently here. Even afaik ArticMine and others have gone quiet. I feel like the last (of the very serious altcoin core developers) man remaining on the BCT island. @kiklo please don't be offended.

Also why 2 second transaction confirmations?  10 seconds is more than sufficient and alleviates a shit ton of headaches.

Even 2 seconds is too slow for interactive apps writing to the global ledger in real-time. I want reliable sub-second latency.