Suggestion for dwdollar & other BTC traders: How to fix the SCAM problem

[jorgen]

MtGox had used Liqpay for a week or so, but because lack of interest from most users he drop them and swiched to LR. BTW bad reputation for liqpay is originated from false speculations of some forumers.

[davout]

But if that is so, then why did mt gox drop them ? (or why did mt gox get dropped by mt gox ?) too many chargebacks on liqpay's side?

Mtgox dropped liqpay ?
I have never seen "liqpay" option on mtgox website.

I have

MtGox had used Liqpay for a week or so, but because lack of interest from most users he drop them and swiched to LR. BTW bad reputation for liqpay is originated from false speculations of some forumers.

If it is just because of lack of interest from the users that's sad, I found it to be the easiest way to buy bitcoins. Well, maybe someone will pick it back up.

[nanaimogold]

Liqpay is not chargebackable. Go to the site and check it for yourself!

to Nanaimogold: you just trying to get rid of competitors and use dirty methods for this. Don't post fake information if you don't know this for sure!

If somebody want to make sure the Liqpay transaction is final just try to send as small as 1$ to your friend and then try to rise a dispute to get the money back

Did you just insult me?

You are not competing with me - you don't even play in the same league.

ALL credit cards can be charged back and in card not present transactions the merchant has no avenue to arbitration.

Liqpay does what they can to prevent fraud but no system is perfect. They DO get chargebacks and they DO clawback when they can and close accounts when they cannot.

PrivatBank is not issuing the cards being charged and they do not make policy for the many card issuers in this world.

[Anonymous]

Credit Cards = chargebackable. It is diabolical what lengths some payment providers go to in trying to hide this fact.

Its a policy that wont be changed anytime soon. Best to move on to more positive pursuits such as suggestions for enabling easier cash exchanging either in person or by mail.

[nanaimogold]

If your trade partner can get to a branch of your bank, he can make a cash deposit to your account.

[jorgen]

Liqpay is not chargebackable. Go to the site and check it for yourself!

to Nanaimogold: you just trying to get rid of competitors and use dirty methods for this. Don't post fake information if you don't know this for sure!

If somebody want to make sure the Liqpay transaction is final just try to send as small as 1$ to your friend and then try to rise a dispute to get the money back

Did you just insult me?

You are not competing with me - you don't even play in the same league.

ALL credit cards can be charged back and in card not present transactions the merchant has no avenue to arbitration.

Liqpay does what they can to prevent fraud but no system is perfect. They DO get chargebacks and they DO clawback when they can and close accounts when they cannot.

PrivatBank is not issuing the cards being charged and they do not make policy for the many card issuers in this world.

Sorry, I didn't try to insult you, there were another users criticizing Liqpay so don't take it personal please.

I'm not trying to play in YOUR leage with your

                              Bid        Ask        Last

Nanaimo Gold  :     0.2451     0.2759     0.2500

4323.51 BTC in inventory worth USD $1223.55

I can propose MY OWN leage with

40000 BTC in inventory

and 0.27 Bid and 0.29 Ask

[jorgen]

But if that is so, then why did mt gox drop them ? (or why did mt gox get dropped by mt gox ?) too many chargebacks on liqpay's side?

Mtgox dropped liqpay ?
I have never seen "liqpay" option on mtgox website.

I have

MtGox had used Liqpay for a week or so, but because lack of interest from most users he drop them and swiched to LR. BTW bad reputation for liqpay is originated from false speculations of some forumers.

If it is just because of lack of interest from the users that's sad, I found it to be the easiest way to buy bitcoins. Well, maybe someone will pick it back up.

You can PM me if you still want to buy/sell bitcoins with Liqpay

[nanaimogold]

Liqpay is not chargebackable. Go to the site and check it for yourself!

to Nanaimogold: you just trying to get rid of competitors and use dirty methods for this. Don't post fake information if you don't know this for sure!

If somebody want to make sure the Liqpay transaction is final just try to send as small as 1$ to your friend and then try to rise a dispute to get the money back

Did you just insult me?

You are not competing with me - you don't even play in the same league.

ALL credit cards can be charged back and in card not present transactions the merchant has no avenue to arbitration.

Liqpay does what they can to prevent fraud but no system is perfect. They DO get chargebacks and they DO clawback when they can and close accounts when they cannot.

PrivatBank is not issuing the cards being charged and they do not make policy for the many card issuers in this world.

Sorry, I didn't try to insult you, there were another users criticizing Liqpay so don't take it personal please.

I'm not trying to play in YOUR leage with your

                              Bid        Ask        Last

Nanaimo Gold  :     0.2451     0.2759     0.2500

4323.51 BTC in inventory worth USD $1223.55

I can propose MY OWN leage with

40000 BTC in inventory

and 0.27 Bid and 0.29 Ask

One group is trying to build a market and another group is trying to play a market.

Different leagues indeed.

[ankostis]

(i did not search the forum exhaustively to find a proposal similar to the one i suggest, below,
i hope i'm  not offending anyone with its triviality)

What is the past time interval required for a soft-cash transaction to become non-redeemable?

If there is indeed such an interval, then an exchange-trader willing to trade his bcs for my soft-cash
could demand from me (client) upfront an insurance in bcs.

Here is the 4 step procedure:

Lets assume that:
a) the non-redeemamble interval is 6 months, and that
b) I (the client) want 10bcs.


1) I make a transfer(insurance deposit) to trader's address of 10 bitcoins, .

2) I place the same amount of soft-cash on the trader's (i.e.) paypal account.

3) The trader then waits for 6 months, for the paypal-transaction to become non-redeemamble,
and afterwards,

4) he transfers to me (the client) the initial insurance-deposit(10bcs) along with the purchased amount(10bcs),
20bcs in total.


In total, i, the client, need x2 the ammount i wanted to buy, half in soft-cash and half in bcs.


I know it has the drawback that it precludes the newbies with no bcs at all, like myself.
But at least there is *some* safe way to purchase bcs online, a necessity for clients around the globe, like myself.

(and the insurance may be left intact for further transactions, kind of a registration-fee)


Why whouldn't this work?

[nanotube]

because nobody wants to wait half a year to get his bitcoins.

[Mahkul]

because nobody wants to wait half a year to get his bitcoins.

+1

[caveden]

because nobody wants to wait half a year to get his bitcoins.

+2

That's just too long.

[ankostis]

Yes, but i suppose that you live in the US, so obviously you can have other alternatives.

Not me.


Nevertheless, the trader can even appeal to people like yourself, not wanting to «wait half-a-year to get their bitcoins» by offering them a "call option", that is, giving them the right, but not the obligation to purchase the bitcoins after the half-year, for the agreed price.

[nanotube]

Yes, but i suppose that you live in the US, so obviously you can have other alternatives.

Not me.


Nevertheless, the trader can even appeal to people like yourself, not wanting to «wait half-a-year to get their bitcoins» by offering them a "call option", that is, giving them the right, but not the obligation to purchase the bitcoins after the half-year, for the agreed price.

there's already quite a bit of trading for various tx methods going on on #bitcoin-otc. paypal, bank transfer, moneypak, cash... even some short-term options have been traded.

[FreeMoney]

Yes, but i suppose that you live in the US, so obviously you can have other alternatives.

Not me.


Nevertheless, the trader can even appeal to people like yourself, not wanting to «wait half-a-year to get their bitcoins» by offering them a "call option", that is, giving them the right, but not the obligation to purchase the bitcoins after the half-year, for the agreed price.

This doesn't really solve the problem because they can freeroll since they can yank back what they paid for it every time they don't want to execute the option. 

[russ]

When you are presented with a chargeback, it's up to you to present evidence that shows you actually sent something(which is hard to do with digital goods), evidence that what you sent is correct and as described, and evidence that you have sent to the right person.

Would sending a physical voucher with a code to get their bitcoins solve this?

Obviously it would incur overhead, but it would mean you could have a more traditional proof of postage which would be useful in disputes.