Let`s file a lawsuit against Butterfly Labs

[h4r13q1n]

People like you are the reason why there are still not many places to spend Bitcoins: nobody wants a customer like you!

Yeah, he's a stubborn douche.

Three words OP: deal with it.

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[Betatester]

Don´t feed the trolls!

[S M I L Y]

I bet a lot less people would be complaining of Bitcoin prices were dropping since they placed their pre-orders.

-S M I L Y

[nwbitcoin]

This is a thread for the history books - an early example of what might kill bitcoins in the future.

While I can understand why the OP is annoyed, the simple truth is that a deal is a deal in time as well as in legal tender.

Buying and selling in bitcoins can only work if the price is set using a fixed exchange based on time.

If this means that bitcoin doesn't become a currency, then we will have lost a lot of the potential which is currently driving the market.

That would be a shame

;(

[SgtSpike]

This is a thread for the history books - an early example of what might kill bitcoins in the future.

While I can understand why the OP is annoyed, the simple truth is that a deal is a deal in time as well as in legal tender.

Buying and selling in bitcoins can only work if the price is set using a fixed exchange based on time.

If this means that bitcoin doesn't become a currency, then we will have lost a lot of the potential which is currently driving the market.

That would be a shame

;(

I disagree.  It just means that merchants need to work harder to explain refund policies and purchase prices.

"Though we accept payment in Bitcoins, the purchase price for our products or services is denominated in USD.  In the event of a refund, you will receive Bitcoins or USD equivalent to the purchase price denominated in USD."

OR

"Though we accept payment in USD, the purchase price for our products or services is denominated in Bitcoins. In the event of a refund, you will receive Bitcoins or USD equivalent to the purchase price denominated in Bitcoins."

If they don't, then they'll continue to annoy stubborn and greedy individuals such as the ones showcased in this thread.

[becoin]

People like you are the reason why there are still not many places to spend Bitcoins: nobody wants a customer like you!

Hahaha... Oh boy... The oldest rule of marketing is "Customer is the king". Crooks like BFL and paid fanboys like you are the reason why bitcoin is not widely accepted AS A CURRENCY. They think bitcoin is not a currency but just A METHOD OF PAYING $US! If the future of bitcoin depends on such crooks like BFL, bitcoin will always be a lame currency that will always need a crutch ($US) to move around! Is that really what we all want? No, thanks!

It is very simple indeed. If a company can not handle BTC/USD exchange risk they should not announce that they accept payments in BTC. Period!

[becoin]

As educated consumers....

As a professional independent consultant lawyer with a PhD in consumer dispute cases I can tell you that you are an idiot

Then you're professional idiot! Learn what is the FTC definition for "pre-order"! Even a professional idiot will see how BFL is breaking the law!

[becoin]

As educated consumers....

As a professional independent consultant lawyer with a PhD in consumer dispute cases I can tell you that you are an idiot

Then you're professional idiot! Learn what is the FTC definition for "pre-order"! Even a professional idiot will see how BFL is breaking the law!

Pay upfront != pre-order

Visit http://butterflylabs.com/ and tell me what is the text on the button? Is it "pay upfront now" or is it "pre-order now"?

I told you you're professional idiot... You are defending a company without even having visited their website!

[becoin]

This guy just wants his coins back because they are valued 5 times more in USD value today which is morally questionable

It doesn't matter how much they are valued, 5 times more or 50 times more. Those coins are his coins, not BFL's coins. Those coins were his coins BEFORE he sent them to BFL! They would have been BFL's coins if BFL had delivered what they have promised, but they didn't. Processing only partial bitcoin refunds BFL gets free option call on BTC/USD exchange rate. No court of law will tolerate this!

[king44444]

OP I feel ya, BFL is frustrating to work with. You need to keep in mind that they are not a Wal-Mart, just a small company. I believe they will come through, but would appreciate if more people in front of me got refunds.

[ewitte]

I ordered the jalapeno recently I'm not forking over for a larger unit as I'm considering it a gamble at this point.

[BitDreams]

Bitcoin forces people to deal with the concept of money -- reactions may vary.

[Aahzman]

Everybody disillusioned with BFL, please do continue cancelling your pre-orders. I enjoy moving up in the queue.

[becoin]

I believe they will come through, but would appreciate if more people in front of me got refunds.

All Avalon customers are in front of you. Do you really appreciate it? Well, enjoy! Some people are born to be suckers.

[ewitte]

Everybody disillusioned with BFL, please do continue cancelling your pre-orders. I enjoy moving up in the queue.

I did cancel but only because I purchased a higher model and it was less than a week from the original order   Decided on the 30GH/s model instead of the jalapeno.

[13Charlie]

Everybody disillusioned with BFL, please do continue cancelling your pre-orders. I enjoy moving up in the queue.

I did cancel but only because I purchased a higher model and it was less than a week from the original order   Decided on the 30GH/s model instead of the jalapeno.

+1 - Nice!

[chaosgs]

OP is so wrong. (my post has nothing to do with BFL and/or delays/scam.  This is strictly about refund)

Here's what OP wants.

Pays for preorder in BTC at (I believe) $3600.00 back whenever (think in chat he mentioned 193 BTC).  When requested for refund BFL gave him 60 BTC since at current value 60btc=$3600.  Well he wants his 193 BTC back. 

So we ask him what if BTC was lower, then he states he wants his $3600 worth back in BTC.

You can't have it both ways.  You paid $3600 and got refunded $3600.  It's not BFL's fault btc value has changed so much in such a short period.

As to BFL, I have no opinion.  I ordered a jala just for shits and giggles.  Not a serious miner or anything.  Just have 1 gpu at 50% running for the occasional btc for stuff.  I paid for mine in $USD. 

(non BTC example, you buy something from US in Europe over ebay or w/e.  You pay X$ to  be converted into Z euro.  You get item 2 weeks later.  Want refund.  YOu ship back, month has passed.  Person refunds the Euro they received, if exchange rate has changed you may get less or more USD. )

Agreed BTC is a currency, BTC is backed by American currency it seems. Or rather compared to American Currency.

[chmod755]

Crooks like BFL and paid fanboys like you are the reason why bitcoin is not widely accepted AS A CURRENCY.

I'm not getting paid for anything I post here - or anywhere else. Do they offer something like that?
It's always your decision to buy something or invest in something - it always starts with a customer making a bad decision (e.g. investing in products of a brand new/unknown business). I also made some bad decision, but I tried to find consensus and got most of my BTC back.

Hahaha... Oh boy... The oldest rule of marketing is "Customer is the king".

As long as he/she is paying. And it seems you're asking others to file a lawsuit against BFL and publicly complaining about them rather than trying to get your money back → costs for a company (reputation/legal costs) > income: you're definitely not a king.

They think bitcoin is not a currency but just A METHOD OF PAYING $US!

How do you know what they think? If more employees wanted to get paid in BTC and other companies they're working with did it, it would be possible, but right now most companies producing something need to have government money.

If the future of bitcoin depends on such crooks like BFL, bitcoin will always be a lame currency that will always need a crutch ($US) to move around! Is that really what we all want? No, thanks!

The future of bitcoin doesn't depend on them.

It is very simple indeed. If a company can not handle BTC/USD exchange risk they should not announce that they accept payments in BTC. Period!

You want to get the same amount of BTC back and you're asking for that after the exchange rate increased a lot. For government issued money it's possible to do that, because it's being printed all the time, but paying with bitcoin and asking for a refund of the same amount is like asking to get your gold/silver back after the exchange rate increases. Could you make a company and handle this after Bitcoin goes up by >%500 ? I highly doubt it.

[13Charlie]

You want to get the same amount of BTC back and you're asking for that after the exchange rate increased a lot. For government issued money it's possible to do that, because it's being printed all the time, but paying with bitcoin and asking for a refund of the same amount is like asking to get your gold/silver back after the exchange rate increases. Could you make a company and handle this after Bitcoin goes up by >%500 ? I highly doubt it.

+1 - I think the drawing a parallel to gold may actually help get through to this guy. That might be a bit of a stretch, but you have a good point.

[res]

If they clearly stated below facts in agreement,

1. Main currency is USD or other real currencies.
2. They offer BTC acceptance as a side option. In other words, It's just an exchange service between BTC and USD.
3. Therefore, BTC payment do not construct a direct payment.
4. If you paid in BTC, amount of BTC you need to pay is determined by the exchange rate of the time of payment
5. Likewise, If you ask a refund in BTC, amount of refund in BTC will be determined by the exchange rate of the time of refund.

I think it's done deal unless they use unrealistic exchange rate.

Let's say you bought a very fast computer with your one kilograms gold bar.

CASE1. Merchant originally accept 1kg gold for 1 computer deal.
CASE2. Merchant originally accept USD for 1 computer and they have an additional service which is "Take some gold and exchange it to USD"

In Case 1, If you give them 1kg gold for a computer, you will get 1kg gold refund.
In Case 2, If you give them 1kg gold for a computer, you will get USD refund.
And if you wish to receive your refund as gold, exchange rate at the time of refund will be applied to determine how much gold you will get.