ETC on Polo

[s1gs3gv]

Full support on Kraken now too.

https://twitter.com/krakenfx/status/758011228304257024

Don't want to miss out on the commission stream ...

[BitUsher]

https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ETC

Bittrex added

[s1gs3gv]

https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ETC

Bittrex added

There is gold in them hills lol

[iCEBREAKER]

What will happen is those with the free ETC tokens won't be in a rush to cash them out - after all, they were free right?  So they will sit on them and HODL, giving them some value.  
  
While some are holding the line on their new ETC, a few other speculators might defect or decide to jump into ETC... Even if for the lulz.  Eventually the trickle of bloody ETH going into ETC is gonna become a full blown epidemic as everyone starts a rush to cash out of the larger sibling and into the one that is growing non-stop.  
  
I think ETC is gonna be a run away train, and I'm on board to the tune of a few bitcoins.  Minimum situation?  The two reach parity - one way or another.  After that it's anyone's guess what happens.

I expect (oscillation around) parity as well.  Balance seems stable from a Nash perspective.

There is room in the market for both versions, an immutable ETC for some applications and a mutable ETH for others.

This implies ETC is heavily undervalued.  I am accumulating accordingly.   

Vitalik really pissed off some institutional types.  Barry Silbert and Kraken represent deep pockets, and are backing ETC to the hilt.

At least one ETH core dev is committed to supporting both forks, saying it's up to users (not devs) to decide which is better:

let’s make it clear that we (the ethereum developers) have never abandoned the old chain.

The "Ethereum Classic" chain is just as much our child as the forked one, and if both of them survive (which is the users’ choice, not ours), then I intend to take care of them equally in the future too.

Zsolt Felföldi is an ethereum developer working on the Go implementation of the ethereum protocol, sometimes called Geth.
http://www.coindesk.com/tale-two-chains-ethereum/

This ETH dev says which fork survives "is the users’ choice, not ours" but Chancellor Butarin believes he makes the law, passes the sentence, and should swing the sword.

[kanoptx]

What i dont get is, why didnt this great majority of people that wanted ethereum not to fork vote against it in the first place?

[ArticMine]

What i dont get is, why didnt this great majority of people that wanted ethereum not to fork vote against it in the first place?

Because miners are only part of the community.

[megadeth]

Sends a strong message about users control vs miners.
You cant forcefully push a fork of a coin without the markets approval.
Miners will always be at the mercy of the market.

[ArticMine]

Sends a strong message about users control vs miners.
You cant forcefully push a fork of a coin without the markets approval.
Miners will always be at the mercy of the market.

Exactly. In order to have a successful hard fork one needs consensus across all parts of the community not just miners. Miners play a very important role but they alone cannot impose a fork the rest of the community disagrees with.

[Minecache]

Sends a strong message about users control vs miners.
You cant forcefully push a fork of a coin without the markets approval.
Miners will always be at the mercy of the market.

Incorrect. The miners could use their hash rate to attack the smaller chain.

[ArticMine]

...
Incorrect. The miners could use their hash rate to attack the smaller chain.

This was threatened but did not occur with ETC.

[megadeth]

Sends a strong message about users control vs miners.
You cant forcefully push a fork of a coin without the markets approval.
Miners will always be at the mercy of the market.

Incorrect. The miners could use their hash rate to attack the smaller chain.

If you look into the game theoretic possibilities, a miner has to consider these options:

• Waste resources attacking the forked chain.
• Mine on the forked chain.
• Mine on the original chain.

All of these aren't free, the market dynamics will dictate behavior of the miners.

[BitUsher]

Incorrect. The miners could use their hash rate to attack the smaller chain.

Miners care principally about profits and why would they attack the more profitable chain? Additionally, what would this accomplish? A 51% attack won't stop ETC which is primarily motivated by ideals anymore than a 51% attack on bitcoin can stop it. All it will do is make miners from ETH camp look bad and discredit them as being malicious and jealous.

[iCEBREAKER]

ETC is gaining serious traction. It makes sense to hold some of it

ETC is open to double spend replay attacks and is barely mined so is highly unsupported and insecure. It's also about to suffer a serious 51% attack. Gud luck with that coinage.

And this is supposed to endear the community to ETH investors how exactly? The fact they can roll back the clock in pursuit of their precious investments and then blow the opposition out of the water at will?

Good luck putting that on a flyer. It's over.

Well said.

If Chancellor Butarin passively excludes or actively supports attacks on ETC, expect a mutiny within Team Vitalik as his devs either defect to Team ETC or (as is the actual case so far) pledge to support both branches and let users decide.

The investment case for ETH is weaker than for ETC:

What I realized so far is that a blockchain without a well-defined social contract will sooner or later face serious problems. At this moment, interestingly, the old "classic" chain is the one that already has a better contract. It’s the one that hasn’t been changed, but splitting off the majority of its value into a new chain changed its implied contract.

We can assume that whoever finds the old chain valuable believes that unintended contract behavior is no reason to fork. That chain will never face another crisis because of a similar event. On the other hand, ether holders of the new chain might still disagree if this fork was a precedent for all similar cases or just a one-time disaster fix that shouldn’t happen ever again.

-Zsolt Felföldi is an ethereum developer working on the Go implementation of the ethereum protocol, sometimes called Geth.

http://www.coindesk.com/tale-two-chains-ethereum/

[Minecache]

ETC is gaining serious traction. It makes sense to hold some of it

ETC is open to double spend replay attacks and is barely mined so is highly unsupported and insecure. It's also about to suffer a serious 51% attack. Gud luck with that coinage.

And this is supposed to endear the community to ETH investors how exactly? The fact they can roll back the clock in pursuit of their precious investments and then blow the opposition out of the water at will?

Good luck putting that on a flyer. It's over.

Well said.

If Chancellor Butarin passively excludes or actively supports attacks on ETC, expect a mutiny within Team Vitalik as his devs either defect to Team ETC or (as is the actual case so far) pledge to support both branches and let users decide.

The investment case for ETH is weaker than for ETC:

What I realized so far is that a blockchain without a well-defined social contract will sooner or later face serious problems. At this moment, interestingly, the old "classic" chain is the one that already has a better contract. It’s the one that hasn’t been changed, but splitting off the majority of its value into a new chain changed its implied contract.

We can assume that whoever finds the old chain valuable believes that unintended contract behavior is no reason to fork. That chain will never face another crisis because of a similar event. On the other hand, ether holders of the new chain might still disagree if this fork was a precedent for all similar cases or just a one-time disaster fix that shouldn’t happen ever again.

-Zsolt Felföldi is an ethereum developer working on the Go implementation of the ethereum protocol, sometimes called Geth.

http://www.coindesk.com/tale-two-chains-ethereum/

1 dev!! ROFLMO

[Apriand]

Ow, i miss ETC train, i see yesterday ETC price is 0.0008 - 0.0009 and now 0.004. Is now still good time to buy ETC or price will go down again and i must wait price lower to buy?

[Minecache]

Ow, i miss ETC train, i see yesterday ETC price is 0.0008 - 0.0009 and now 0.004. Is now still good time to buy ETC or price will go down again and i must wait price lower to buy?

DAO attacker owns about 10% of all ETC. You do the maths what happens next once he dumps.

[smooth]

Ow, i miss ETC train, i see yesterday ETC price is 0.0008 - 0.0009 and now 0.004. Is now still good time to buy ETC or price will go down again and i must wait price lower to buy?

DAO attacker owns about 10% of all ETC. You do the maths what happens next once he dumps.

Your FUD mind tricks don't work on us.

[jubalix]

its not really free money as the ETH price has dropped, and you don't know if ETC will take over ETH....

so risk abounds

[woodson]

The market always decides and influences both consumer and the miners.

RIP etc.

[Carlsen]

I have read something about a second hard fork to be necessary for one of those two chains.
Does anybody know if there is something true behind that or is it just a hoax?