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Author Topic: How to send BitCoins with LOW TX FEE (Not No TX Fee)  (Read 7935 times)
BitHits
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March 23, 2013, 11:09:18 PM
 #41

I've been in touch with the admins of two other sites.

So far I've been suggested to use the mtgox api

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March 25, 2013, 03:13:24 AM
 #42

I've been in touch with the admins of two other sites.

So far I've been suggested to use the mtgox api

That actually would be much better than just writing a simple script, as such a script could potentially kill a server that doesn't have enough RAM. Try generating a payment request of 2000+ addresses with variable payments and such in one command. Potential lag fest. MtGox API would be much cleaner.

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March 25, 2013, 06:26:56 AM
 #43

Straight Bitcoin isn't designed for really small transactions.  If you're sending less than something like $1 worth of bitcoins, you should expect to pay 10% or more in fees. More if you're trying to send $0.10 or less.

There is no magic fairy wand we can wave and make Bitcoin suddenly great for gazillions of tiny transactions; plan your businesses accordingly. As transaction volume increases, there will be more competition for space in blocks and fees are likely to rise.

And please avoid filling your customer's wallets with "dust" that they'll pay huge fees to spend; a payout should be at least a couple of cents, not a fraction of a penny. I think there is pretty good consensus among the core developers that sooner or later we'll make "dust" outputs non-standard, so they are not relayed or mined by default (details to be worked out, we need to implement a good algorithm for auto-adjusting the definition of "dust").




Hi. How is "dust" defined? Does that mean, the real smallest bitcoin unit is not really a Satoshi or 0.00000001? What good are the 8 decimal places for when you can't really use them? That just cuts down on the value or divisibility of the coin.

Also, for a Satoshi, how long must it be aged before you can spend it without a fee? I've got some dust from an older wallet that I can't get right now, so either I wait for it to age, or I figure out a way to send it to myself without a fee.

What's one work around for this? Can I use larger amounts together with my dust so I can consolidate them without a fee?

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March 25, 2013, 07:23:57 AM
 #44

Straight Bitcoin isn't designed for really small transactions.  If you're sending less than something like $1 worth of bitcoins, you should expect to pay 10% or more in fees. More if you're trying to send $0.10 or less.

There is no magic fairy wand we can wave and make Bitcoin suddenly great for gazillions of tiny transactions; plan your businesses accordingly. As transaction volume increases, there will be more competition for space in blocks and fees are likely to rise.

And please avoid filling your customer's wallets with "dust" that they'll pay huge fees to spend; a payout should be at least a couple of cents, not a fraction of a penny. I think there is pretty good consensus among the core developers that sooner or later we'll make "dust" outputs non-standard, so they are not relayed or mined by default (details to be worked out, we need to implement a good algorithm for auto-adjusting the definition of "dust").

Straight bitcoin isn't developed for small transactions? WOW and it is funny cause in the beginning everyone was like "Bitcoin is going to bring micro transactions to content providers". Gavin you making it extremely difficult for people like me to keep running a full node and align my views with the core development team. Now dust transactions are going to phased out of the reference client, that blows my mind, the big government  of bitcoin is telling everyone how they should use it again. So I guess your taking a side against Satoshi Dice. I have so much respect for Erik and after he went thru a lot of crap defending his transactional system for Satoshi Dice, your just going to manually impose your view on for everyone? How is the transactional fee market suppose to be free again? I one supported Satoshi Dice, cause bitcoin is suppose to be the free market yet your going to stop a business. What next block transactions to a site I own cause you don't like me? I mean this what the bitcoin foundation should be against, yet you RUN that so your in your fortress and making these decisions that go against what bitcoin is created for. A system to send payments, if I want to send .00000001 I should be able to yet your making it so much harder.

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March 25, 2013, 04:40:05 PM
 #45


This is blockchain spam. You are sending thousands of 0.000002-0.000006 BTC payments that can hardly be spent (the recipient has to pay minimum fees to spend them too). If Bitcoins were $1000 each these are still fractions of a USD penny. I would be pissed if you sent this crap to my wallet. Only the naive would sign up or expend any effort to receive such payments.

One transaction - 1/10th of a megabyte that has to be stored by every node on the network forever and transmitted to every new user before they can use Bitcoin, you really think that 0.049 BTC is too expensive to do that? Ask Western Union how much they would charge to send 1000 money transfers that can be redeemed anywhere in the world.

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March 30, 2013, 10:30:55 PM
 #46

And please avoid filling your customer's wallets with "dust" that they'll pay huge fees to spend; a payout should be at least a couple of cents, not a fraction of a penny. I think there is pretty good consensus among the core developers that sooner or later we'll make "dust" outputs non-standard, so they are not relayed or mined by default (details to be worked out, we need to implement a good algorithm for auto-adjusting the definition of "dust").

By default nothing should be censored. Miners and relay nodes must decide for themselves if they want to censor by actively enabling a censor. Do not use a censor as a solution to your failed technical implementation.

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March 31, 2013, 11:18:53 PM
 #47


This is blockchain spam. You are sending thousands of 0.000002-0.000006 BTC payments that can hardly be spent (the recipient has to pay minimum fees to spend them too). If Bitcoins were $1000 each these are still fractions of a USD penny. I would be pissed if you sent this crap to my wallet. Only the naive would sign up or expend any effort to receive such payments.

One transaction - 1/10th of a megabyte that has to be stored by every node on the network forever and transmitted to every new user before they can use Bitcoin, you really think that 0.049 BTC is too expensive to do that?

What you call "blockchain spam" is critical for longterm success of Bitcoin. Without miners there is no Bitcoin. And miners rely evermore on tx fees. Bitcoin currently has 8 decimal places. If I want to send a transaction with 1000 payments of 0.00000001 BTC then that must be allowed. And miners will be very happy to process such transactions. Whether or not it is profitable for me to create such transactions is my business.

"dust" should be welcomed and celebrated. It keeps Bitcoin alive. If Bitcoin software has a problem with "dust" then it has a problem with the future.

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April 02, 2013, 06:50:08 AM
 #48

I'm mostly aiming for a tx size of just under 10k and a total input of 0.01 or more, so far i havent quite hit the mark but I've been getting close.

http://blockchain.info/tx/bcd40b654fd84b69cb7ecf3538ea7acec2c9a4fccb25faa2e90f82a6ae51777c

Size 7816 (bytes)
BTC Sent 0.00709 BTC
Fees 0.004 BTC

http://blockchain.info/tx/aaaad80916549752ab7a4f66f8d760180b8e188e5d84e932db19b25393573738

Size 5680 (bytes)
BTC Sent 0.007098 BTC
Fees 0.003 BTC

At least my tx fee vs total input is not retardedly disproportionate

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April 02, 2013, 07:41:10 AM
 #49

@BitHits

You can use either raw transactions or my fork to send transactions with lower fees than normal.

However beware, if you miscalculate and send a transaction without fee that should be sent with fee, it may never confirm.
This usually applies to dust or very fresh coins (recently received).

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