Some guy threatens ETC (Ethereum Classic) with a 51% attack

[frostminer]

Those are antminers in the photo, for mining btc.

I know that, but this is him on the picture. You can check his FB profile and see some big farms with GPU's...

Then post a picture of his GPU farm. This sounds like a bluff to me.

Edit Asking people to provide their personal information to the NSA (among others) via Facebook / PRISM is not going to cut it with many here.

You can see pics of his ETH farmS here.

http://www.powtopos.com/

[Suggestive Melon]

Of course he could just be trying to scare people into dumping at low prices, and will then pump it.  We also don't know who the ETH hacker is, for all we know he could be in cahoots with the miners, or the Ethereum Foundation, or could just be a lone wolf.  There are too many unknowns here and you can't really trust a word from anyone.

[solid12345]

Of course he could just be trying to scare people into dumping at low prices, and will then pump it.  We also don't know who the ETH hacker is, for all we know he could be in cahoots with the miners, or the Ethereum Foundation, or could just be a lone wolf.  There are too many unknowns here and you can't really trust a word from anyone.

We're also assuming the worst of everything, for all we know the DAO hacker could be principled like Satoshi and not sell a single coin.

[ArticMine]

...

You can see pics of his ETH farmS here.

http://www.powtopos.com/

Fair enough. This at least does have credibility.

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

We got a PoS with a formal security proof coming out in August sometime. It uses the GKL15 model. PM me if you want a copy of the paper when it's ready.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1476057.msg14879996#msg14879996



Can't we all just get along?
or

Fight!!

[mining1]

I was wondering how big these chinese ethereum farms are, now i got my answer. It says here http://www.powtopos.com/ that this the biggest chinese gpu ethereum farm in china. So if the biggest ethereum farm in china only accounts for 2.2% of ethereum total hash rate with 98G, it means ethereum is extremely well decentralized, it surprised me. I mean, i was expecting there to be cartels with 5-10% of total hashrate, but wow, biggest farm in china just 2.2% ? It's next to impossible to find another ethereum farm as big as this one outside china for obvious reasons.

[criptix]

I was wondering how big these chinese ethereum farms are, now i got my answer. It says here http://www.powtopos.com/ that this the biggest chinese gpu ethereum farm in china. So if the biggest ethereum farm in china only accounts for 2.2% of ethereum total hash rate with 98G, it means ethereum is extremely well decentralized, it surprised me. I mean, i was expecting there to be cartels with 5-10% of total hashrate, but wow, biggest farm in china just 2.2% ? It's next to impossible to find another ethereum farm as big as this one outside china for obvious reasons.

Quite interesting. So chinese actually dont really bother with eth mining...

[synthgauge]

[frostminer]

I cant find that tweet. Fake or deleted?
Seems weird considering his tweet 8 hrs ago.

[kiklo]

Towards the end kushti talks about releasing a test chain and tools to attack it with, as well as another paper with some mitigation strategies, but afaics none of those were ever released. I don't think that thread disproves anything, but OK, carry on staking.

jonald_fyookball says he doesn't have the time and energy to digest Kushti's research paper. He's honest about it, he didn't read it.

Towards the end and towards the beginning Kushti's conclusion is the same: long-range attack is not possible.
Short-range is theoretically possible with 10% of all coins for 20 blocks - 20 minutes for full confirmation of the transaction is recommended. Bitcoin recommends 6 confirmations (60 minutes) to protect against short-range attacks. But OK, carry on FUD'ing.

Not trying to drag thread off topic, but where is the experimental blockchain and attack tools that were supposed to be released to demonstrate this practice. Where is the formalized paper?

Another problem is that many (all?) PoS coins suffer from poor distribution, so it's possible one entity owns more than 10% of all coins. Didn't Bter hacker steal like 10% of all NXT? Satoshi might own 10% of all Bitcoin but that doesn't mean he can attack the chain with a single i7 cpu.

As an aside, is the word 'FUD' the crypto equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling, "lalalalala"?

You complain of a Proof of Stake's coin Distribution,
Why are you Silent on the Fact that the Country of China controls over 70% of BTC Hashrate, and could 51% attack it on a daily basis for the last few months.

If you think Gmaxwell analogy of Nothing at Stake is an issue , you need to think again.
It is not Rocket Science to see thru this Pathetic Myth.

Simple Fact PoS or PoW
Longest Chain with the Most Difficulty Wins

If you Stake the same coins offline while also staking them online,
you increase the difficulty by the same amount on the Offline chain & the Online Chain at the same time.
Meaning since others are also staking on the Online chain, the Online Chain will always have a Higher Difficulty than the Offline Chain,
Which Guarantees any attempt to overwrite the Online Chain (with Higher Difficulty) with your Offline Chain (Lower Difficulty) will always Fail.
Nothing at Stake Myth Busted.

The only way a history attack can work is if your Offline Chain has a higher difficulty to overwrite the Online Chain, this can never happen , if you are dumb enough to stake on both at the same time, You have to have more coins than the staking % and you have to keep them offline, so you don't use your own coins to block your own attack.  

Unlike Asics or GPU Mining Farms which can be used to attack multiple coins,
You have to Purchase each PoS coins directly , meaning it will cost you more Fiat and you will damage your own investment.
( It is the Same as going to an ATM, and withdrawing your Money and then Setting your Money On Fire. )
Smarter Move would be to buy up all of the Coins and then control a Monopoly and set your own price per coin.
Odds are you will not have the funds to accomplish this, because the more PoS coins you buy the more the price grows, and the more others hold.

PoW coins, Miners mine the coin and then sell the coin to pay electricity or asics bills, as their is no intrinsic value to the coin itself, and it will probably lose value,
why is simple, because the laws of supply and demand are irrefutable , if the demand does not keep up with the increase in supply , Price per coin will decrease.
Which is why 3 years ago, BTC hit ~$1200 per coin and has come no where near since.
Any additional Demand is being siphoned off into other coins, which guarantees the older slower BTC never matches it previous glory days.

 

FYI:
One last point with PoW coins the ASICS or GPU farms control your coin, without them your coins are frozen.
It is a Simple Class System,  the ASICS Miners are the Masters and the owners of the BTC coins are paying to be their Slaves (as they are completely dependent on them to move their coins around).

Proof of Stake , you are a Free Man Contributing your Stake to keep your Chain running, making you slave to No One.

Freedom (PoS) or Slavery (PoW)  your Choice?

[ArticMine]

Who says one had to purchase POS coins in order to attack. It is much cheaper to borrow them.

[kiklo]

Who says one had to purchase POS coins in order to attack. It is much cheaper to borrow them.

Yeah , I have had this argument with others.
Your so called Margin call attack, which what you guys never bother to read is the fact you have to put up collateral before you can borrow the coins.  
And odds are your attempt will do nothing but make you broke.

If Margin Calls were so easy every asshat would make money doing it, it is just a way for exchanges to lure suckers in and steal their collateral.

But if you want to put your money where your Big Mouth is, I am Game.

I will Bet you 1 Million Mintcoins that you can not destroy Mintcoin in the next 2 weeks.
You have 2 weeks from today's day to put up or shut up.
I chose Mint because they are on Poloniex and that is the only exchange that does margin calls.

So you're game or is that a yellow streak running down your back.  

So do we have a bet?

 

FYI:
Just to Clarify , you have to destroy Mintcoin to win the bet by August 8th, 2016 using your margin call attack.
If Mintcoins is still up and running, then you owe me 1 million mintcoins.
 
FYI2:
It is amazing how quiet these guys get, when we move into real world examples verses the BS theories in their heads.

FYI3:
Even if you have 1 million $US Dollars for collateral , you would still fail at this borrowing attempt attack.
I will tell you why , if you're dumb enough to bet with me.  

[bbc.reporter]

He talks about attacking ETC not ETH. ETC hashrate is at 5% of that of ETH.

That statistic is changing by the minute - in favour of ETC.

Sure thing because its pumped 20X. Dont forget, attacker still possesses 3.6 million in the darkdao which will be released in a lump sum all at once on 28th of july, and he will certainly have to provide a solid liquidity for himself to cash out.

U cant cash out 3.6 million on bitsquare where it was traded at 0.00013 BTC/ETC and had no bids around there, but u'd rather cash out on thick markets provided by poloniex or bitfinex, wouldnt yall? If we look at how insanely its being pre-pumped, with miners jumping onto the most profitable chain and propelling the hashrate, it all catches on just perfectly.

Another option for the attacker is to use Poloniex and trade ETC for ETH since there is a ETC/ETH listing there. After that he can dump all ETH for BTC. This will be bad for ETH because it will bring the price lower. But it is good for ETC because with the attacker's BTC he can buy back in ETC pumping the price.

He has the option to do this as a cycle and keep doing it until he destroys the ETH price. I speculate the motivation of the attacker is deeper than stealing for profit. He is doing this for his own activist agenda. This I fear is what Vitalik does not want to face.

[spartak_t]

Guys,

The thread is about Guo's statement and Ethereum as a whole, not about NXT, PoS coins or the new Tesla. Some people are already yelling at ETC calling it a scam, but in my views this is the original crowdfunded Ethereum project, so...

Simple truth is that the Ethereum foundation gathered (at some point, depends when/if they sold some of the funds, and the BTC price) over $200 MILLION for 2 projects. One of them is now gone (TheDAO), the other one is outcasted by its original creators. Yes, some people voted about the fork (though I have some doubts on how the voting went....), but they were somehow forced to do so. Its like deposit 2 x $50 in the bank and after some time the bank calls you and says "Come in 5 days to pick a $100 bill, otherwise you are going to lose it.". Maybe I don't want a $100 bill and I don't want to take it after 5 days? Basically, the Ethereum Foundation completely screwed up.

P.S. Would like to remind you that I am not trolling EF, I am just frustrated on how they are doing things so far.

[freshman777]

If ETC is a scam, ETH is a scam too. They come from the same parent, two branches of the same trunk. Either they both are scams or both are not scams.

In my view both are legit projects, the Classic branch is more idealistic. There can be more forks in the future. Forking is a standard operation in crypto.

I don't own any of them, my view is not biased like views of those who own one or the other.

[spartak_t]

Forking is a standard operation in crypto.

Not in something, which claims to be decentralised.

EDIT: If it is a coin with small community, then a hard fork could be convenient.

P.S. I am talking about a hard fork. Bitcoin for example was never hard forked.

[freshman777]

Forking is a standard operation in crypto.

Not in something, which claims to be decentralised.

P.S. I am talking about a hard fork. Bitcoin for example was never hard forked.

What difference does decentralization make in forking a new branch?

Is Bitcoin centralized or decentralized? Why does it matter for forking if it is either and why does it matter what happens in Bitcoin? Every crypto is not obliged to copy Bitcoin's history.

[freshman777]

It is called secession. Why should a majority force a minority to stay if the minority has a wish to secede and go on their own fork? Why does this make the minority's branch a scam? It doesn't.
It is hard for minority to secede in political national boundaries. It is pretty easy in crypto, which makes crypto an awesome ground for experimenting of political and economic theories.

[spartak_t]

You can't gather $200 million to make experiments were there is possibility for failures. They somehow fixed things, but fact is that a lot of people lost money. There are not only coins/assets/platforms/DAO's, there are also tradings. A lot of people bought on higher prices. Forking is always a bad news (when it is made to fix an exploited code), which hurts "investors".

[freshman777]

You can't gather $200 million to make experiments were there is possibility for failures. They somehow fixed things, but fact is that a lot of people lost money. There are not only coins/assets/platforms/DAO's, there are also tradings. A lot of people bought on higher prices. Forking is always a bad news (when it is made to fix an exploited code), which hurts "investors".

I don't remember there was a promise of profits for everyone and never losses, do you? Take Bitcoin, it is deliberately called an experiment, beta software after 8 years, because it can fail completely. "Investors" are kids who want to get rich quick, well it's not how it works, they must learn or get out of the kitchen if it's hot.