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Author Topic: Can we compute the loss of the banks?  (Read 867 times)
glub0x
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March 22, 2013, 10:40:09 AM
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All this money in bitcoin is not created from thin air. It came from a bank transfer either to buy asic/fpga or directly bitcoin on an exchange.
So this money that used to be stored in the bank is not anymore.

But because the of price swings, we can't simply multiply the current price with the bitcoin in circulation. My bank lost much less than the price i could sell my btc today.


So is there a way to compute this loss?

The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the
minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions

Satoshi Nakamoto : https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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lethe
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March 22, 2013, 10:49:21 AM
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Does not compute.

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Mushoz
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March 22, 2013, 10:54:25 AM
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Zero loss. If I buy hardware with my $$, that money will go to the bank accounts of people selling that hardware. If I buy BTC with my $$ that money will go to the bank account of the person selling me his BTC, unless he keeps it at an exchange...

...in which case the $$ is stored in the bank account of said exchange.

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March 22, 2013, 10:57:28 AM
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The banks lose some on reduced velocity of money and related fees due to some transactions being displaced by Bitcoin. They however compensate it by creating some more money that is always appears on the credit side of their balance sheets and on debit side of balance sheets of everyone else.

Once a significant amount of transactions occur within Bitcoin ecosystem without crossing the borders into fiat world banks will indeed incur some losses or lose some profits.

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ehoffman
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March 22, 2013, 10:58:12 AM
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The banks never lose...  With all their high fees, monthly charges, etc...  Tongue

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March 22, 2013, 10:58:37 AM
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There is no loss, money just go from one bank account to another and Bitcoins from one adress to another.
The amount of money in banks stay the same.

Bitcoins - Because we should not pay to use our money
mornaner
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March 22, 2013, 11:02:57 AM
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The banks never lose...  With all their high fees, monthly charges, etc...  Tongue

And if they do, government just injects money into them... Perfect business!
glub0x
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March 22, 2013, 11:07:58 AM
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There is no loss, money just go from one bank account to another and Bitcoins from one adress to another.
The amount of money in banks stay the same.

yep this is so true i was a bit stupid...

But I'm asking you that because a friend ask me who is loosing the profit we make?

When i buy a btc with some euro, does it mean euro loose some value? If nobody loose, then there is another problem, it mean we are creating wealth. but i don't think so!

Is the loss on transaction fee an explanation? i doubt that.

[EDIT] i think i answer to myself, we just don't make any profit. We make profit if we sell the bitcoins but if everybody sell, then btc price goes back to 0. And some will loose, some will win.

The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the
minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions

Satoshi Nakamoto : https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
BitPirate
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March 22, 2013, 11:12:13 AM
 #9

You don't make a profit until you sell!

For every seller there is a buyer.

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March 22, 2013, 12:28:32 PM
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There is no loss, money just go from one bank account to another and Bitcoins from one adress to another.
The amount of money in banks stay the same.



But I'm asking you that because a friend ask me who is loosing the profit we make?




That was a very easy question to answer, who ever sold YOU the coins is the one who lost out on the profit that you gained.
glub0x
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March 22, 2013, 12:45:04 PM
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There is no loss, money just go from one bank account to another and Bitcoins from one adress to another.
The amount of money in banks stay the same.



But I'm asking you that because a friend ask me who is loosing the profit we make?




That was a very easy question to answer, who ever sold YOU the coins is the one who lost out on the profit that you gained.
Sometimes it s so easy u don't even think about it.

The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the
minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions

Satoshi Nakamoto : https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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March 22, 2013, 05:15:38 PM
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There is no loss, money just go from one bank account to another and Bitcoins from one adress to another.
The amount of money in banks stay the same.

yep this is so true i was a bit stupid...

But I'm asking you that because a friend ask me who is loosing the profit we make?

When i buy a btc with some euro, does it mean euro loose some value? If nobody loose, then there is another problem, it mean we are creating wealth. but i don't think so!

Is the loss on transaction fee an explanation? i doubt that.

[EDIT] i think i answer to myself, we just don't make any profit. We make profit if we sell the bitcoins but if everybody sell, then btc price goes back to 0. And some will loose, some will win.

Once upon a time there was no USA (or, if you prefer, no France or Peru).  When the USA came into being the dollar was created, and all dollar-denominated profits from that new country - profits which hadn't existed before - came into being with it.

Who were those profits taken from?  Nobody.  The USA (or France, or Peru) created new wealth.

Same with bitcoin, I think.  At least in many cases.  As new use-cases for bitcoin are invented, new wealth will be created.  As bitcoin is discovered to be more efficient in pre-existing use-cases, profits denominated in other currencies will be taken by bitcoin.

But overall, I believe your original question ("So is there a way to compute this loss?") is not fully valid.

Dankedan: price seems low, time to sell I think...
Elwar
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March 22, 2013, 05:29:14 PM
 #13

The banks will never lose money, they just may get the chance to have all the Federal Reserve Notes that they want.

As people sell their Bitcoins to pay off mortgages or credit cards or other debts owed to banks, the banks will then have that money back. If it reaches the point where everyone uses Bitcoins and the banks have all of the FRNs, then FRNs will be just about worthless.


Now more than ever, people will be able to finally understand the following scripture:

"Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
 
And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
 
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's"



Bring me a dollar that I may see it. Whose is the name on top of the dollar bill? "Federal Reserve"

I say, give to the Federal Reserve the things that are the Federal Reserve's.

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
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March 22, 2013, 05:31:21 PM
 #14

You don't make a profit until you sell!

For every seller there is a buyer.

Or spend! Spending a bitcoin is basically selling it for a good or service.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in ICELAND - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
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