Ethereium Classic is a reminder of why Bitcoin must never hard fork

[RoseMann]

OK look I agree that under the right circumstances a hard fork can be beneficial but it all depends on full disclosure, what was the announcement for it (i know im very behind here and trying to understand) Im reading through this thread and reading things about "trying to hide a particular set of transactions"

does anyone know the official reason from the devs for a hard fork?

... We would like to congratulate the Ethereum community on a successfully completed hard fork. Block 1920000 contained the execution of an irregular state change which transferred ~12 million ETH from the “Dark DAO” and “Whitehat DAO” contracts into the WithdrawDAO recovery contract. The fork itself took place smoothly, with roughly 85% of miners mining on the fork: ...

from:  https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/07/20/hard-fork-completed/

Edit 1: The "enemy" here is the Dark DAO.
Edit 2: On July 20th, 2016 12 Million ETH were worth approximately 145 Million USD. The seizure of funds was done with no due process of law. It remains an open legal question where this seizure of funds was even lawful or even if the "DAO Hacker" was legally in the right. Can someone please point out to me a court of law in a competent jurisdiction that has actually ruled on the matter.  
Edit 3: Even the US Government is not immune from this attack if they are branded "the enemy" as this old thread illustrates. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=306809.0;all

Very interesting, hardly full disclosure to say the least

[Mastercon]

I heard the rise of the ETC is due to the pump by the bitcoin owners. So they like the hard fork of the coins.

[dumpida]

I heard the rise of the ETC is due to the pump by the bitcoin owners. So they like the hard fork of the coins.

The bitcoin price dropped 20% in the last few months. The ability to pump the ETC has reduce a bit.

[Sniper44]

I heard the rise of the ETC is due to the pump by the bitcoin owners. So they like the hard fork of the coins.

The bitcoin price dropped 20% in the last few months. The ability to pump the ETC has reduce a bit.

both of you are only relating two things that has no relationship with each other. bitcoin and ethereum rise and falls has nothing to do with each other.

ETC is being pumped because why not, it is the hot topic of these days and there is a lot of profit in it.
but BTC has experienced a drop because of the bitfinex hack and neither BTC rise nor its fall has anything to do with ethereum and its price.

[Mastercon]

I heard the rise of the ETC is due to the pump by the bitcoin owners. So they like the hard fork of the coins.

The bitcoin price dropped 20% in the last few months. The ability to pump the ETC has reduce a bit.

both of you are only relating two things that has no relationship with each other. bitcoin and ethereum rise and falls has nothing to do with each other.

ETC is being pumped because why not, it is the hot topic of these days and there is a lot of profit in it.
but BTC has experienced a drop because of the bitfinex hack and neither BTC rise nor its fall has anything to do with ethereum and its price.

I heard some developers will not support the ETC. So the ETC price has dropped about 40% in the last few days.

[dumpida]

I heard the rise of the ETC is due to the pump by the bitcoin owners. So they like the hard fork of the coins.

The bitcoin price dropped 20% in the last few months. The ability to pump the ETC has reduce a bit.

both of you are only relating two things that has no relationship with each other. bitcoin and ethereum rise and falls has nothing to do with each other.

ETC is being pumped because why not, it is the hot topic of these days and there is a lot of profit in it.
but BTC has experienced a drop because of the bitfinex hack and neither BTC rise nor its fall has anything to do with ethereum and its price.

I heard some developers will not support the ETC. So the ETC price has dropped about 40% in the last few days.

The ETC price has recovered somewhat. It seems the ETC investors are quite rich, they can absorb big dump.

[Mastercon]

I heard the rise of the ETC is due to the pump by the bitcoin owners. So they like the hard fork of the coins.

The bitcoin price dropped 20% in the last few months. The ability to pump the ETC has reduce a bit.

both of you are only relating two things that has no relationship with each other. bitcoin and ethereum rise and falls has nothing to do with each other.

ETC is being pumped because why not, it is the hot topic of these days and there is a lot of profit in it.
but BTC has experienced a drop because of the bitfinex hack and neither BTC rise nor its fall has anything to do with ethereum and its price.

I heard some developers will not support the ETC. So the ETC price has dropped about 40% in the last few days.

The ETC price has recovered somewhat. It seems the ETC investors are quite rich, they can absorb big dump.

The ETC investors need to be rich enough to absorb the dump of the DAO hackers and the Ethereum Foundation.

[panju1]

I heard the rise of the ETC is due to the pump by the bitcoin owners. So they like the hard fork of the coins.

The bitcoin price dropped 20% in the last few months. The ability to pump the ETC has reduce a bit.

both of you are only relating two things that has no relationship with each other. bitcoin and ethereum rise and falls has nothing to do with each other.

ETC is being pumped because why not, it is the hot topic of these days and there is a lot of profit in it.
but BTC has experienced a drop because of the bitfinex hack and neither BTC rise nor its fall has anything to do with ethereum and its price.

I heard some developers will not support the ETC. So the ETC price has dropped about 40% in the last few days.

The ETC price has recovered somewhat. It seems the ETC investors are quite rich, they can absorb big dump.

The ETC investors need to be rich enough to absorb the dump of the DAO hackers and the Ethereum Foundation.

Getting the Ethereum foundation out might actually do it a world of good.
These dumps were the last weapons of the ETH brigade. Now there is no more hold that ETH backers have on ETC.

[dumpida]

I heard the rise of the ETC is due to the pump by the bitcoin owners. So they like the hard fork of the coins.

The bitcoin price dropped 20% in the last few months. The ability to pump the ETC has reduce a bit.

both of you are only relating two things that has no relationship with each other. bitcoin and ethereum rise and falls has nothing to do with each other.

ETC is being pumped because why not, it is the hot topic of these days and there is a lot of profit in it.
but BTC has experienced a drop because of the bitfinex hack and neither BTC rise nor its fall has anything to do with ethereum and its price.

I heard some developers will not support the ETC. So the ETC price has dropped about 40% in the last few days.

The ETC price has recovered somewhat. It seems the ETC investors are quite rich, they can absorb big dump.

The ETC investors need to be rich enough to absorb the dump of the DAO hackers and the Ethereum Foundation.

Getting the Ethereum foundation out might actually do it a world of good.
These dumps were the last weapons of the ETH brigade. Now there is no more hold that ETH backers have on ETC.

The Ethereum Foundation has fewer ETC than the black hat hacker and the white hat hacker. So the hackers are more important.

[RoseMann]

I heard the rise of the ETC is due to the pump by the bitcoin owners. So they like the hard fork of the coins.

The bitcoin price dropped 20% in the last few months. The ability to pump the ETC has reduce a bit.

both of you are only relating two things that has no relationship with each other. bitcoin and ethereum rise and falls has nothing to do with each other.

ETC is being pumped because why not, it is the hot topic of these days and there is a lot of profit in it.
but BTC has experienced a drop because of the bitfinex hack and neither BTC rise nor its fall has anything to do with ethereum and its price.

I heard some developers will not support the ETC. So the ETC price has dropped about 40% in the last few days.

The ETC price has recovered somewhat. It seems the ETC investors are quite rich, they can absorb big dump.

in no way did a hard fork ever mean the price would not go up, and i also do not believe the big dump is coming, as its not the most profitable way for the hacker to sell of his stack

[Mastercon]

Solidity Version 0.3.6 Released. Should the ETC holders upgrade their wallet?

https://github.com/ethereum/solidity/releases/tag/v0.3.6

[RastMan]

Solidity Version 0.3.6 Released. Should the ETC holders upgrade their wallet?

https://github.com/ethereum/solidity/releases/tag/v0.3.6

For the time being, it is up to the ETC holders to decide if they want to update. In the future, it will have nothing to do with ETH.

[oblivi]

I hope ETC forks to become PoW only and ETH forks to become PoS so ETC has a bigger reason to exist, differentiation is key and PoW+immutable is great.

[RastMan]

I hope ETC forks to become PoW only and ETH forks to become PoS so ETC has a bigger reason to exist, differentiation is key and PoW+immutable is great.

That is my hope as well. That will make the mining a good business. Otherwise we have to find places for those GPU.

[Vlad2Vlad]

ETC will rally which will be the exact reason they'll use to fork Bitcoin. 

[RastMan]

ETC will rally which will be the exact reason they'll use to fork Bitcoin. 

I do not think there will be a hard fork for the bitcoin. There will be only soft forks. That is much safer.

[jabo38]

Hardforking is fine.  Hardforking to steal money, no matter the reason why, is very controversial and bound to cause problems.

[dinofelis]

I do not think there will be a hard fork for the bitcoin. There will be only soft forks. That is much safer.

A soft fork has the "advantage" that it is compulsory if you have a majority of miners with you, no matter what your users think.
In other words, with a soft fork, if you have 51% of the miners with you, you can shove it down the throats of the whole community.
A hard fork only needs ONE miner to disagree, and the other chain lives on.  Next, the users will determine the relative market caps, and in the end, the mining that depends on the market cap (the block reward and the difficulty determine the profitability).

But I don't see how bitcoin could avoid hard forking.  If I were to invent an altcoin, I would design it as a fork from bitcoin, to solve the issue of initial distribution, to have directly a large user base (all bitcoin holders get "free money" and become directly coin holders) and to have a serious kicking off its trading.

It is very strange that most alts start new chains with a new genesis block, instead of using the bitcoin chain as point of departure.

[logicalmayhem]

Bitcoin is always the best despite of all other new entries  widely accepted all over the world

Bitcoin has some pretty big problems, the double spend exploits are getting pretty rampant now and their system of devoting all their rewards to hashing gives you pretty extreme diminishing rewards.
DASH will be the future, after evolution launches next year

[Ayers]

Bitcoin is always the best despite of all other new entries  widely accepted all over the world

Bitcoin has some pretty big problems, the double spend exploits are getting pretty rampant now and their system of devoting all their rewards to hashing gives you pretty extreme diminishing rewards.
DASH will be the future, after evolution launches next year

double spending for what for the malleability issue? i thought that was only an exchange issue and was fixed already with last version, bitcoin only need other few update to be really the best one