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Author Topic: Propster Tip Jar System  (Read 10491 times)
ripper234
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Ron Gross


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June 06, 2012, 05:27:29 AM
 #41

I added this mode for this reason: suppose you want to share both the tipjar and what it's for. If you just share a tip jar page, then some people may not get that they have to go and visit the homepage of the subject. So you would have to email two links , the project and the tipjar. With the preview feature (toolbar) you can just send that one link.

Maybe I misunderstood.

I meant that I won't install a toolbar that adds Propster to any site I visit.
The ability to send direct links to 3rd party website, with a propster bar above is awesome though, I can see that used.

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ripper234
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Ron Gross


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June 06, 2012, 07:01:29 AM
 #42

BTW, any particular reason why Propster isn't open source?

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June 06, 2012, 07:26:44 AM
 #43

I do not see a point in open sourcing it since it is not deigned to run in multiple server installation. However, the technology upon which it is built is open sourced, and it is called Pliant. I am using the lessons learned on this project to build a skeleton boilerplate for a sample pliant application.

The other reason is that open source is not a necessary condition for software, in my mind. I do not agree with Stallman that software can not be obfuscated. OSS is a feature that is good sometimes to have. In particular, I would like to keep the ownership of Propster full code. However if someone wants to join he effort, I can discuss it. I believe a good place for OSS in Propster is plugins for talking to third party services, via JavaScript.

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Ron Gross


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June 06, 2012, 07:40:22 AM
 #44

I do not see a point in open sourcing it since it is not deigned to run in multiple server installation. However, the technology upon which it is built is open sourced, and it is called Pliant. I am using the lessons learned on this project to build a skeleton boilerplate for a sample pliant application.

The other reason is that open source is not a necessary condition for software, in my mind. I do not agree with Stallman that software can not be obfuscated. OSS is a feature that is good sometimes to have. In particular, I would like to keep the ownership of Propster full code. However if someone wants to join he effort, I can discuss it. I believe a good place for OSS in Propster is plugins for talking to third party services, via JavaScript.

Of course it is not necessary, it's a nice to have property in web projects.
Is Propster a for-profit effort? I know you're not charging fees, but do you have another business model?
If it is not for-profit, I don't understand the reason for not open sourcing.

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June 06, 2012, 01:15:40 PM
 #45

The business model is that Propster will make money
from donation in tip jar. I have a few more ideas with affiliate marketing which I may ad later -- namely, you buy a product via propster and get part of my affiliate commission as credit in your account for tipping  (propster keeps the remaining part). Finally, I am considering registering a charity component so that people could donate their old car for example and get a tax refundable receipt.

But the simple reason I don't open source it is that I don't want to spent time building out the site, and have someone else run a copy of it. the profit fact is irrelevant. For example, say github makes a copy of their site available. someone will run their own version of github under a new domain ?

Open source makes sense for products like Gcc or Drupal, not services like Wikipedia.

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Ron Gross


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June 06, 2012, 01:41:26 PM
 #46

The business model is that Propster will make money
from donation in tip jar. I have a few more ideas with affiliate marketing which I may ad later -- namely, you buy a product via propster and get part of my affiliate commission as credit in your account for tipping  (propster keeps the remaining part). Finally, I am considering registering a charity component so that people could donate their old car for example and get a tax refundable receipt.

But the simple reason I don't open source it is that I don't want to spent time building out the site, and have someone else run a copy of it. the profit fact is irrelevant. For example, say github makes a copy of their site available. someone will run their own version of github under a new domain ?

Open source makes sense for products like Gcc or Drupal, not services like Wikipedia.


bad example, since MediaWiki is open source, and it's a very good thing that it is.

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June 07, 2012, 04:06:24 AM
 #47

MediaWiki is not wikipedia, it is a wiki solution. Anyways, the point is moot, I'm not releasing the website code, for the simple reason that I don't want to.  People could write plugins against an API, here I have no problem with.

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Ron Gross


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June 07, 2012, 04:27:32 AM
 #48

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying you ought to release it, just inquiring why don't you.

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June 09, 2012, 06:00:06 AM
 #49

No offence taken.

Update: I modified the tip jar preview page to look more like a preview than a full site with a toolbar.



Otherwise it looks too much like some kind of hack and can freak people out, especially since money is involved.

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June 13, 2012, 06:45:09 AM
 #50

Just launched a new sister site to Propster, called Booster.  It implements the idea suggested by Ripper234 -- create a bounty jar to collect money for a certain task.

https://booster.io

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June 17, 2012, 03:03:31 AM
 #51

I don't want the funds to be converted ... I want the recipients to learn to deal with Bitcoins as well.

What I want is just to automatically calculate a BTC amount based on the USD-BTC rate.

Example:

I hate 1 BTC in my account, and I set my monthly donation to $1.
July 1st, 1 BTC = $5, so $1 = 0.2 BTC. 0.2 BTC is deducted from my balance and sent as donation, split between my props.

August 1st, 1 BTC drops to be worth $2 on GLBSE. So, $1 = 0.5 BTC. I have 0.7 in my balance, and now 0.5 BTC is removed and split between my donations.

Sep 1, 1 BTC = $100 Smiley So my monthly deduction now becomes only 0.01 BTC. At no point in this process is BTC actually converted to USD ... the Mt. Gox rate is just used to calculate the BTC amount.

This is now implemented, thanks for the idea. The BTC rate is updated from MtGox "high".

In addition, there is a button to force month end.  This is useful if you don't want to wait for the whole month to split your monthly allocation and deliver the tips, but want it now. So if you want, you could always give a few tips, and go to press that button. If the button is not pressed, it is automatically "pressed" for you every beginning of the month.

Before button is pressed:


After button is pressed:


The four pending tips went from status "wait" to "delivered" (not shown in screenshot)

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Ron Gross


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June 17, 2012, 05:29:02 AM
 #52

In addition, there is a button to force month end.  This is useful if you don't want to wait for the whole month to split your monthly allocation and deliver the tips, but want it now. So if you want, you could always give a few tips, and go to press that button. If the button is not pressed, it is automatically "pressed" for you every beginning of the month.

+1, good idea.

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June 20, 2012, 12:43:01 AM
 #53

Button with a balloon on top.  https://propster.me/content/api.html



I wonder if there should be one button design like with Flattr/Youtipit/Facebook/G+, or many different pictures like it is setup now. I am inclined with the current setup, since a picture speaks a thousand words, and different blog writers may want to put a different kind of button. For example, I think sometimes "virtual gift" is more appropriate than a "tip jar".  And for coders & tech blogs, probably "buy me a beer" is more appropriate & funky than the other two. I am also thinking of adding a "pig" jar and a button with a bitcoin logo visible on it.

Submissions of designs are welcome.


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June 21, 2012, 04:05:57 PM
 #54

Alright, I have received a request from Tny.im for an actual "button" button.  Here's how it looks:



Details are on the API page.

It is already live at http://tny.im/

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June 21, 2012, 05:11:37 PM
 #55

Alright, I have received a request from Tny.im for an actual "button" button.  Here's how it looks:



Details are on the API page.

It is already live at http://tny.im/

Looks awesome.

This (API + website) must remember me and not ask me to login every single time I connect to it.
I have multiple google accounts, maybe this is why I'm being asked to login all the time?
Or is Remember Me just not implemented yet?

BTW, consider release/maintaining a list of websites that embed your site - I'm very much interested in this list.



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June 21, 2012, 09:35:55 PM
 #56

This (API + website) must remember me and not ask me to login every single time I connect to it.
I have multiple google accounts, maybe this is why I'm being asked to login all the time?
Or is Remember Me just not implemented yet?

BTW, consider release/maintaining a list of websites that embed your site - I'm very much interested in this list.

The Remember Me feature is not available yet, however, I have that code ready, and I just need to integrate it. Thank you for opening a ticket for it on UserVoice. I'm gonna get to all them.

If you login using different Google accounts, you essentially are seen as different users. Joining accounts is supported through direct request to me (email).

I am planning to generate such list by cataloging REFERRER headers and automatically updating info on every tip jar where it is placed. Then it would be a simple matter to show tip jar that have that data available.


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Ron Gross


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June 21, 2012, 09:39:08 PM
 #57

This (API + website) must remember me and not ask me to login every single time I connect to it.
I have multiple google accounts, maybe this is why I'm being asked to login all the time?
Or is Remember Me just not implemented yet?

BTW, consider release/maintaining a list of websites that embed your site - I'm very much interested in this list.

If you login using different Google accounts, you essentially are seen as different users. Joining accounts is supported through direct request to me (email).


Just to clarify - I don't login to Propster via different accounts, I am asked to choose between my 2 Google accounts, and I always choose the same one. I'll be patient Smiley

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June 22, 2012, 12:23:40 AM
 #58

I had this idea this morning, want to run by you:

Suppose that in addition (or instead) of giving money as it is implemented now, I give vouchers. My vouchers are tagged with my name.  So I could give two frisco-vounchers to VIM, and three more to GCC. Then, you could give one ripper-voucher to VIM and two ripper-vouchers to GCC.  Now, VIM has three vouchers, two from me, and one from you. GCC has three from me, and two from you. Think of each voucher as a channel or bucket. Say I commit $5 to fund my vouchers. This means that VIM will get $2 of that, and GCC will get $3 of that.  You commit $3 dollars, thus, it is divided so that VIM will get $1, and GCC will get $2.

With me so far ? Now, there can be four classes of vouchers corresponding to how much you like a project. For example, they can be called:
[ awesome (1), game changers (2), blows my mind (3), changed my life (4)].   Now, I can give to VIM 4-level vouchers, and to GCC 1-level vouchers. Then VIM will get money from me in a corresponding proportion. The distribution is [ 10%, 20%, 30%, 40% ].  This means that if I commit $10 and I gave 1 voucher of each type, my $10 dollars will be distributed according to $1, $2, $3, and $4 into each channel.

Is there a monthly cycle ? The system could work without one. Simply when you add money it is distributed among all the vouchers. Vouchers could automatically be revoked or made inactive if a certain project receives enough money from you, say $5.  So the vouchers represent a bucket queue where you put a little bit of money.

Essentially, then, a voucher is a "Like" and a channel to put money into your Like afterwards.

Why is it possibly better than how it is now ? Because the psychology of money spending is very complex, and this creates a kind of detachment between the act of clicking Props with the act of contributing money.

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June 22, 2012, 05:26:08 AM
 #59

I had this idea this morning, want to run by you:

Suppose that in addition (or instead) of giving money as it is implemented now, I give vouchers. My vouchers are tagged with my name.  So I could give two frisco-vounchers to VIM, and three more to GCC. Then, you could give one ripper-voucher to VIM and two ripper-vouchers to GCC.  Now, VIM has three vouchers, two from me, and one from you. GCC has three from me, and two from you. Think of each voucher as a channel or bucket. Say I commit $5 to fund my vouchers. This means that VIM will get $2 of that, and GCC will get $3 of that.  You commit $3 dollars, thus, it is divided so that VIM will get $1, and GCC will get $2.

With me so far ? Now, there can be four classes of vouchers corresponding to how much you like a project. For example, they can be called:
[ awesome (1), game changers (2), blows my mind (3), changed my life (4)].   Now, I can give to VIM 4-level vouchers, and to GCC 1-level vouchers. Then VIM will get money from me in a corresponding proportion. The distribution is [ 10%, 20%, 30%, 40% ].  This means that if I commit $10 and I gave 1 voucher of each type, my $10 dollars will be distributed according to $1, $2, $3, and $4 into each channel.

Is there a monthly cycle ? The system could work without one. Simply when you add money it is distributed among all the vouchers. Vouchers could automatically be revoked or made inactive if a certain project receives enough money from you, say $5.  So the vouchers represent a bucket queue where you put a little bit of money.

Essentially, then, a voucher is a "Like" and a channel to put money into your Like afterwards.

Why is it possibly better than how it is now ? Because the psychology of money spending is very complex, and this creates a kind of detachment between the act of clicking Props with the act of contributing money.

Interesting.

I've been thinking for some time on how to avoid / fix the monthly cycle.
Today, if I give props to someone, they get money at the end of the month, but only once, right?
I like the idea of giving a prepetual channel of money to someone, and have it by rating (maybe you need 5 levels though ... a lot of ranking systems use 5 levels / stars).
I also wouldn't call it vouchers, perhaps just change the way props work and call this new mechanism "props".
Each prop entitles its owner to a monthly donation.

I think it's good to have a monthly cycle in some sense, it makes accounting easier ... I would just change the "one off" behavior.

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June 23, 2012, 05:51:28 PM
 #60

Today, if I give props to someone, they get money at the end of the month, but only once, right?

Yes, right now, it is happening only once.

I like the idea of giving a prepetual channel of money to someone, and have it by rating (maybe you need 5 levels though ... a lot of ranking systems use 5 levels / stars).
I also wouldn't call it vouchers, perhaps just change the way props work and call this new mechanism "props".
Each prop entitles its owner to a monthly donation.

I think it's good to have a monthly cycle in some sense, it makes accounting easier ... I would just change the "one off" behavior.

I want to keep both models side by side, because, Flattr shown that his model works. The Props/Vouchers/Channels will have to be an additional currency kind of thing.

Btw, I have added embed code for a button with tooltip:



Thanks for Tny.im guy for the idea.

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