MAX BTC VALUE

[MIST514]

Wish I could post in the other threads and pose this to BTC vets.....

BTC were previous all time high at 30. Now I've seen as high as 72AUD = 70USD aprox. They are droppin hard (well did for 1 hr) not they are stabalizing. What are the vets experiences or thoughts ? Whats a good time to sell ? I got mine at 46AUD

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[ihopedso]

It is impossible to know, the currency itself can support high values or low values. It doesn't really matter long as it is relatively stable.

[bitcoinator]

I think it is good to buy in the uptrend and sell in the downtrend. It is unlikely to buy in min price and sell in max price. But it should be possible to ride a trend. Sometimes the best strategy is not to do anything. Those who invested at $32 before the crush of 2011 and didn't do anything, are still in profit

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
Whats a good time to sell ?
- snip -

Either:

When you need the AUD to make a purchase.

or

Never.  Hold on to them until they are mainstream and then use them for purchases directly.

[bitcoinator]

Never.  Hold on to them until they are mainstream and then use them for purchases directly.

wow.. great idea.. never thought about that!

[payb.tc]

Now I've seen as high as 72AUD = 70USD aprox.

http://bitcoinpeak.org

[ftping]

Instead of using BTC as an investment, why not use BTC as a currency and use it to pay for for services, goods, and so forth?
The fact that you can wait for a spike and purchase something for a fraction of what you'd pay in USD is pretty amazing.

[AnonyMint]

Instead of using BTC as an investment, why not use BTC as a currency and use it to pay for for services, goods, and so forth?
The fact that you can wait for a spike and purchase something for a fraction of what you'd pay in USD is pretty amazing.

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/8639/how-can-bitcoins-be-used-for-daily-currency-if-their-value-changes-erratically/8647#8647

[Astrophysical]

Instead of using BTC as an investment, why not use BTC as a currency and use it to pay for for services, goods, and so forth?
The fact that you can wait for a spike and purchase something for a fraction of what you'd pay in USD is pretty amazing.

agreed. wish more people had this mentality. it was a major part of the original idea / purpose. right now it's so speculative with so many people focused on buying now selling at some point in the future and becoming rich. the ideals that it will become mainstream are great. the hopes that the spot price goes to $100 or $1000+ once more users are brought in and start using actually merit previous ponzi claims.

[AnonyMint]

Instead of using BTC as an investment, why not use BTC as a currency and use it to pay for for services, goods, and so forth?
The fact that you can wait for a spike and purchase something for a fraction of what you'd pay in USD is pretty amazing.

agreed. wish more people had this mentality. it was a major part of the original idea / purpose. right now it's so speculative with so many people focused on buying now selling at some point in the future and becoming rich. the ideals that it will become mainstream are great. the hopes that the spot price goes to $100 or $1000+ once more users are brought in and start using actually merit previous ponzi claims.

You can't expect there to not be speculation when the design of the system inherently encourages speculation.

You need an algorithmic solution that discourages speculation. I have proposed one, which I think is superior to the discussions about StableCoin in the other areas of this forum.

[AnonyMint]

My point about Bitcoin being doomed over the next years remains in play. The main claim I am making is that its value can never be stable. And the FinCEN has ruled on March 13 that if you use Bitcoin to exchange between it and currency, then you can not be anonymous you must report as a money transmitter. Thus without stable value, Bitcoin is doomed as an anonymous currency (which is the main point of P2P currency!), and will suffer booms&busts that prevent mainstream adoption. If someone releases a better alternative that is able to smooth volatility, then it could defeat Bitcoin driving its value down from nosebleed levels. I have released a design specification for such a competing system.

anonymint.org or anonycash.org or anonycoin.org is the my design specification for a way to fix Bitcoin so that there will be a more stable value and so people don't have to exchange in and out, and can use it as a currency for goods and services and keep their value in it without fear of huge swings in value. Changing from a speculative investment to a real currency.

[MIST514]

Instead of using BTC as an investment, why not use BTC as a currency and use it to pay for for services, goods, and so forth?
The fact that you can wait for a spike and purchase something for a fraction of what you'd pay in USD is pretty amazing.

Im too lazy to look for the link, but theres US ISP providers accepting BTC as payment. They are becoming popular now. It is nothing but up sky high for BTC.

[MIST514]

My point about Bitcoin being doomed over the next years remains in play. The main claim I am making is that its value can never be stable. And the FinCEN has ruled on March 13 that if you use Bitcoin to exchange between it and currency, then you can not be anonymous you must report as a money transmitter. Thus without stable value, Bitcoin is doomed as an anonymous currency (which is the main point of P2P currency!), and will suffer booms&busts that prevent mainstream adoption. If someone releases a better alternative that is able to smooth volatility, then it could defeat Bitcoin driving its value down from nosebleed levels. I have released a design specification for such a competing system.

anonymint.org or anonycash.org or anonycoin.org is the my design specification for a way to fix Bitcoin so that there will be a more stable value and so people don't have to exchange in and out, and can use it as a currency for goods and services and keep their value in it without fear of huge swings in value. Changing from a speculative investment to a real currency.

I reckon you can play with em for another year. Govs will ban em fo shiz - Embagos, Can't tax them, but until they are still flying under the radar they are all good 

[Mike Christ]

My point about Bitcoin being doomed over the next years remains in play. The main claim I am making is that its value can never be stable. And the FinCEN has ruled on March 13 that if you use Bitcoin to exchange between it and currency, then you can not be anonymous you must report as a money transmitter. Thus without stable value, Bitcoin is doomed as an anonymous currency (which is the main point of P2P currency!), and will suffer booms&busts that prevent mainstream adoption. If someone releases a better alternative that is able to smooth volatility, then it could defeat Bitcoin driving its value down from nosebleed levels. I have released a design specification for such a competing system.

anonymint.org or anonycash.org or anonycoin.org is the my design specification for a way to fix Bitcoin so that there will be a more stable value and so people don't have to exchange in and out, and can use it as a currency for goods and services and keep their value in it without fear of huge swings in value. Changing from a speculative investment to a real currency.

Litecoin might be a lot more stable in the future, and offer more of a stable payment system.  You could exchange Bitcoin into Litecoin and vice versa; cash out to Litecoin when you wanna make a purchase, and when you receive Litecoin, put it back into Bitcoin for savings, or keep some around for more spending.  Also, there's this beta software called Ripple which acts as a middle-man for debt-based trading.  I don't think Bitcoin is doomed all together; it may be tough as a reliable payment service, but it is phenomenal as a store of value.  Kinda like gold and silver, where gold may be more volatile than silver, so you'd rather keep your savings in gold and spend with silver.

[ManBearPig]

The REALLY great thing about Bitcoin is there NO experts.

The established financial media (Economist, New Statesman et al) are all calling BTC's exponential growth a bubble - a crash waiting to happen. This may or may not be true. Bitcoin is not a stock.

Seasoned traders are all calling the top way too early and getting back in when BTC bounces back and carries on where it left off. Bitcoin is not like any other currency.

The clever people were those who bought and held, through the 2011 crash, through the flash crashes of the last few weeks and who continue to hold.

There are those who are trading and saying they are trading well but in my humble experience an upwards market will reward everyone. If you've lost money on BTC any time this year you truly are a bad trader!

This is all new territory. Whether the US government tries to stamp it out of existence or whether it becomes a fiat currency, no-one can be sure.

We can only point to analogies and guess.

Buy what you can spare, forget about it and enjoy the ride, that's my advice

[AnonyMint]

Perhaps there is a market for a secondary system (with convertibility between Bitcoin of course) to become a more stable value, for merchants and businesses that can't operate under the volatility of speculation. Litecoin is not best for this, as it doesn't have a mechanism for stabilizing the value.

AFAIK, the only advantage (other than shorter block time) Litecoin appears to have is a place for non-ASICs miners to transition to, so is it just "losers avenue" without sufficient differentiation to gain economy-of-scale?

I need to go clarify that my design does not attempt to stop all appreciation, rather it attempts to smooth it, so that the appreciation is more reliable. It intends to make sure you gain and not end up bitten and destitute (as nearly all even great speculators do in the history of the world). But everyone needs to go bankrupt at least once in their life before they believe this. No child will listen not to put their hands on the hot burner. And I am not about to physically restrain anyone.

So what would be the real advantages of the system I propose?

* Smoothed value that encourages the transaction rate to increase or track appreciation (i.e. the weighted-average of hoarding to decrease or track appreciation).

* all clients can earn the new coins on a more equal footing (thus the debasement is given to the owners without the centralizing negatives of Proof-of-Stake)

* more transactions means a bigger future and higher appreciation long-term, and a real currency that can be used when we really need it in the coming BIG MESS and WORLD WAR 3.

Im too lazy to look for the link, but theres US ISP providers accepting BTC as payment. They are becoming popular now. It is nothing but up sky high for BTC.

Perhaps you can at least read this one linked paragraph, which explains that "network effects" are required become a useful currency:

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/8639/how-can-bitcoins-be-used-for-daily-currency-if-their-value-changes-erratically/8647#8647

Being able to buy a few dozens or even 100s of items online is no where near being a useful currency when TSHTF (and that is very soon). And it is not accelerating. The dormancy values in Bitcoin are likely increasing, because more and more people are just salivating on the buy&hold speculation. I know someone who is a big investor in silver, he just sold 50% of his silver to buy Bitcoin.

Getting a lot of people to hold Bitcoins is very useful for driving merchants to accept them. But the problem is that now no one in the USA at least can buy Bitcoins without have to file a report as a money transmitters. If you rely on the exchange to do this for you, you are not reading the law literally IMHO, and we are headed into nasty times where the govt will go after every undotted "i". FinCEN has fines with interest for not filing. And Bitcoiners can't earn them just by downloading the client to their regular computer either.

So maybe the demographics are a fairly small market of gamblers who are not that astute about the risks they face with the law. How many Bitcoin owners are there? I saw 10,000 figure?Is that outdated?

I reckon you can play with em for another year. Govs will ban em fo shiz - Embagos, Can't tax them, but until they are still flying under the radar they are all good  

There is another marketvalue crushing option which causes much less resistance...

P.S. I wonder when the NSA will anonymously dump some of the massive number of private keys harvested?  

[BTCBUDDY1]

Step 1: Read this: http://falkvinge.net/2013/03/06/the-target-value-for-bitcoin-is-not-some-50-or-100-it-is-100000-to-1000000/
Step 2: Get your mind blown 
Step 3: After recovering go all in.

[AnonyMint]

Step 1: Read this: http://falkvinge.net/2013/03/06/the-target-value-for-bitcoin-is-not-some-50-or-100-it-is-100000-to-1000000/
Step 2: Get your mind blown 
Step 3: After recovering go all in.

The unsophisticated writer of that article apparently has no knowledge of some Economics 101 concepts. Bitcoin is a Substitute good.

There is rule of nature and investments, "small things grow faster". It is fact that the larger Bitcoin gets, the slower it can grow, because larger percent of the target market is already in.

Thus when a smaller professional competitor is available, there is a shift to the one that has the higher growth potential.

One of the barriers is that any upstart needs to have sufficient liquidity to accept the new inflow. But remember that P2P currencies generate their own new coins. And if the new user can generate new coins on a equal footing, then they too might want to reset the clock and "get into Bitcoin at the beginning". And they can if there is a new serious offering that has some serious advantages that makes it realistic to project a future for it.

His simpleton math and thought process reminds me of this math predicting $32,000 price for silver based on relative M3 money supply (do any of you remember this guy?):

http://www.silverstockreport.com/email/Future_Gold_and_Silver_Prices.html

[ManBearPig]

Indeed BTCBUDDY1 that was one of the many things I've read and digested about Bitcoin and I've not read anything before or after that compares to the optimism of that article!

I countered it by reading a couple of articles about how Bitcoin will crash based on (mostly false) comparisons with traditional stocks and shares.

The truth is somewhere in the vast chasm of the middle-ground but won't it be fun finding out?

It should be read by everyone interested in Bitcoin but is DEFINITELY NOT the last word!

[AnonyMint]

Indeed BTCBUDDY1 that was one of the many things I've read and digested about Bitcoin and I've not read anything before or after that compares to the optimism of that article!

I countered it by reading a couple of articles about how Bitcoin will crash based on (mostly false) comparisons with traditional stocks and shares.

The truth is somewhere in the vast chasm of the middle-ground but won't it be fun finding out?

It should be read by everyone interested in Bitcoin but is DEFINITELY NOT the last word!

All good ponzi starts with a "plausible" story. Sigh. You humans never learn.

I thought Bitcoin was supposed to have some virtues that were going to help humanity? What happened to that developers? Do you see the monster you have created?

The REALLY great thing about Bitcoin is there NO experts.

...

Buy what you can spare, forget about it and enjoy the ride, that's my advice

Oh my. Happy dustbowl trails.