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Author Topic: BFL is keeping a portion of first batch chips for their own mining farm  (Read 6579 times)
Fuzzy
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March 24, 2013, 05:11:27 AM
 #1

Quote
3c. are any of these orders likely to be part of the 'first batch' shipment from BFL?

Some of them are, not all of them.  The number that will be in the "first batch" is kind of up in the air at the moment, given the current disposition of our first batch. Since we have a limited number of available chips for the first batch, I will not, in good conscience, be taking a large swath of them.

Quote
3d. what is the (best guess) expected rollout schedule once ASIC shipments start and conversion begins?

I don't currently have one, and will be doing this based on what's available and trying to serve the customers of BFL fairly.


Is it just me, or is it scammy as hell to keep orders that would've otherwise gone to first batch customers, who pre-paid over 8 months ago, and who have already been waiting 4 months past the original delivery date, just so you can upgrade your own operation's hardware?

I hope it's just me over reacting  Huh


EDIT: This is from June 2012


I am opening a new offering, basically mirroring the BFLS product.  It is for the MiniRigs & SC ASIC offering.

IPO will begin tomorrow:

6058 shares will be allocated and sold per Minirig, initially 2 rigs worth of shares will be allocated, and 6058 shares can be traded in for the physical Minirig hardware. 15% of the shares will be kept for maintenance and operation costs.

Once the details of the ASIC unit orders are publicly available, available shares will double and be put up for sale. At that point, it will require 6058 x 2 = 12116 shares to convert your BFLS.RIG shares into the physical hardware (Mini-Rig or SC).

Dividends on RIG will be paid out the same way BFLS is currently paid, on a weekly basis and the amount will be what the unit(s) generate that week. Obviously, no dividends on RIG will be paid until the hardware is in actual operation.

RIG shares purchased are for a share of the unit, not to help fund the purchase of a unit, since the units have already been paid for. Funds will be reinvested into further ASIC orders, which means the ASIC units will be "pre-purchased" already, and you will be buying into already purchased ASIC units with your BFLS.RIG shares, not funding the purchase of ASIC units. This is an important distinction, since it means you'll start generating revenue much faster than a unit you would be "funding" the purchase of.

Ticker symbol is BFLS.RIG


The silver lining is that Josh believes in the ASICs enough to pay for some himself.

That begin said, should BFL fold, he'll be the first and possibly only one to get his money back  Tongue
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March 24, 2013, 05:37:38 AM
 #2

How about BFL customer(s) tell Inaba off and tell him his 1000 chips are/were lost in the 1 wafer escapade that they sacrificed. He doesn't get one, not even 1.

Not only does he get off on saying that customers "pay him" through BFL orders....he also wants a part of the ASIC pie.

Sorry but this goes right back on the heels of him saying the company BFL (or it's peoples) would not be mining with that hardware on the Bitcoin Network....therefore driving up difficulty.

Holy heck, and he dares to call me a liar! Shit, he is the king of all trolls...and then some.


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March 24, 2013, 05:45:47 AM
 #3

<reserved>

A new low, as the drama continues...

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March 24, 2013, 08:48:20 AM
 #4

Wow.. just wow.




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60 GH/s BFL Single SC - Pre-Order Yours Today!
`````` Only $1299.99 - Bitcoin Mining Hardware - ASIC Bitcoin Miner - Butterfly Labs ``````
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March 24, 2013, 08:52:05 AM
 #5

How about BFL customer(s) tell Inaba off and tell him his 1000 chips are/were lost in the 1 wafer escapade that they sacrificed. He doesn't get one, not even 1.

Not only does he get off on saying that customers "pay him" through BFL orders....he also wants a part of the ASIC pie.

Sorry but this goes right back on the heels of him saying the company BFL (or it's peoples) would not be mining with that hardware on the Bitcoin Network....therefore driving up difficulty.

Holy heck, and he dares to call me a liar! Shit, he is the king of all trolls...and then some.

Ahem. I have to correct you.

I am the KING OF ALL TROLLS.

Inaba/Josh is just a liar. Simple as that.  Cheesy

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March 24, 2013, 08:52:52 AM
 #6

Well, this is good news for BFL customers.
If they want a part of the chips for themselves they are somewhat some useful chips.

However, i find it hard to believe it. Reverse psychology applied to angry customers maybe?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
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March 24, 2013, 11:24:49 AM
 #7

So Josh ordered hardware when BFL announced their ASICS and so by definition is a batch 1 customer, it has also been knows since then that he did this and NOW you pick up on this information that has been available on this very forum since back then?

I'm not even sure if your are trying to troll BFL or the BFL haters at this point tbfh.
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March 24, 2013, 12:19:41 PM
 #8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO99nL_at0o
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March 24, 2013, 01:17:35 PM
 #9

Nasty...

C'mon Josh, hook us up!

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March 24, 2013, 01:49:15 PM
 #10

"First Batch" Shipping Plan (AKA 1/3 Shipping plan)
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/51-first-batch-shipping-plan-aka-1-3-shipping-plan.html

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March 24, 2013, 04:57:59 PM
 #11

Seems legit. Roll Eyes

BFL never ceases to amaze.

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March 24, 2013, 05:10:00 PM
 #12

Nothing to see here. This was known about since June.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155730.msg1666888#msg1666888

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March 24, 2013, 05:52:55 PM
 #13

These aren't the ASIC units you are looking for

These aren't the ASIC units we're looking for


Josh can go about this business


"He can go about his business"


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March 24, 2013, 06:18:59 PM
 #14

Nothing to see here. This was known about since June.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155730.msg1666888#msg1666888



I am opening a new offering, basically mirroring the BFLS product.  It is for the MiniRigs & SC ASIC offering.

IPO will begin tomorrow:

6058 shares will be allocated and sold per Minirig, initially 2 rigs worth of shares will be allocated, and 6058 shares can be traded in for the physical Minirig hardware. 15% of the shares will be kept for maintenance and operation costs.

Once the details of the ASIC unit orders are publicly available, available shares will double and be put up for sale. At that point, it will require 6058 x 2 = 12116 shares to convert your BFLS.RIG shares into the physical hardware (Mini-Rig or SC).

Dividends on RIG will be paid out the same way BFLS is currently paid, on a weekly basis and the amount will be what the unit(s) generate that week. Obviously, no dividends on RIG will be paid until the hardware is in actual operation.

RIG shares purchased are for a share of the unit, not to help fund the purchase of a unit, since the units have already been paid for. Funds will be reinvested into further ASIC orders, which means the ASIC units will be "pre-purchased" already, and you will be buying into already purchased ASIC units with your BFLS.RIG shares, not funding the purchase of ASIC units. This is an important distinction, since it means you'll start generating revenue much faster than a unit you would be "funding" the purchase of.

Ticker symbol is BFLS.RIG


On one hand you're right (I'll edit the OP), in June he mentions that 2 minirigs will be put aside. Then he mentions that the number of shares will somehow double, but now he's being ambiguous about the number of chips being kept ["The number that will be in the "first batch" is kind of up in the air at the moment"], which leads me believe he's going to keep whatever he feels he can get away with to size down his FPGA mining operation.
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March 24, 2013, 06:33:44 PM
 #15

If about 200 ASIC chips per mini rig...then about 400 (IF) he only takes two for himself.

Or about half a wafer of chips from the first batch. Or roughly about 10%.

-------------------

Supposedly, he has a conscience. So I assume this means he'd only be taking 2 minirigs worth.


Again I will point out, he stated no BFL employee nor BFL would be using the machines on the network. This flies in direct contradiction of his statements not to mine on the network.

People noticed days ago that there was a huge jump in the hashing rate of his Eclipse mining pool. Consistent with TH/s being added...supposedly. Then followed by someone effectively DDoS'ing his Pool and the BFL website.

How big was the bump in TH/s?? From that you can probably infer how many chips he took for himself.

I can also infer/suspect someone did not like the pool or BFL shotrly after the bump in TH/s...and the mystery DDos seems alot less mysterious....


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March 24, 2013, 06:54:24 PM
 #16

Nothing to see here. This was known about since June.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155730.msg1666888#msg1666888
Known or not....this is a big FU to every customer in my book.

Things went to hell with BFL's ASICs between June 2012 and March/April 2013. Delay after delay and wafers thrown out the window.

Just to put a cherry on top, the guy in charge of handling the schedule for ASICs at his company puts himself ahead of any of his own customers. Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL, <cough> and I will ship my own when every customer to date has his/hers. Sorry for the delays."

Instead he takes a good portion of the wafer, declines to state exactly how much of the wafer he took for himself, and ultimately begins hashing with them (apparently) before anyone else will. Thereby driving the profits into his own pockets and less into that of his customers.

The funny part of this is, (and I haven't read it yet), it sounds like he took in money in the form of shares in June 2012 for a device that didn't yet exist. Am I wrong about this?


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March 24, 2013, 07:49:46 PM
 #17

Nothing to see here. This was known about since June.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155730.msg1666888#msg1666888
Known or not....this is a big FU to every customer in my book.

Things went to hell with BFL's ASICs between June 2012 and March/April 2013. Delay after delay and wafers thrown out the window.

Just to put a cherry on top, the guy in charge of handling the schedule for ASICs at his company puts himself ahead of any of his own customers. Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL, <cough> and I will ship my own when every customer to date has his/hers. Sorry for the delays."

Instead he takes a good portion of the wafer, declines to state exactly how much of the wafer he took for himself, and ultimately begins hashing with them (apparently) before anyone else will. Thereby driving the profits into his own pockets and less into that of his customers.

The funny part of this is, (and I haven't read it yet), it sounds like he took in money in the form of shares in June 2012 for a device that didn't yet exist. Am I wrong about this?

What are the chances that he's mining with an Avalon?
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March 24, 2013, 08:00:06 PM
 #18

Obvious COI is obvious.

To do the right thing, Josh either needs to step down from his BFL position, or fold this "Mining Company" idea.

He explicitly stated when he took the BFL position that he would not further expand his "mining footprint":

Q. You are going to have an unfair advantage when it comes to mining equipment, you’ll be able to get as much as you want before anyone else!
 A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest.  I will continue with my current obligations and already acquired/paid for equipment but will not be purchasing or utilizing additional equipment as part of my mining operations.  This is one of the hardest changes I will be making, as I firmly believe there are plenty of opportunities in this space that I am going to be missing out on, but I believe I can do more good for the bitcoin community as a whole working to provide that equipment to people as opposed to using it myself.

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March 24, 2013, 08:53:38 PM
 #19

Nothing to see here. This was known about since June.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155730.msg1666888#msg1666888
Known or not....this is a big FU to every customer in my book.

Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL, <cough> and I will ship my own when every customer to date has his/hers. Sorry for the delays."
Lets say he does what you said, and doesn't set aside any chips for the IPO. Now a few customers get their chips a few weeks sooner, and it's a giant FU to all of those who bought into the IPO (which does not include me).

There's a limited amount of chips in the first batch. Not everyone can get their chips. Someone has to wait. Do they make the customers wait? The IPO investors? If Josh was getting a free MR just for his own personal profit, then I would be pissed.

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March 24, 2013, 09:09:50 PM
 #20

Nothing to see here. This was known about since June.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155730.msg1666888#msg1666888
Known or not....this is a big FU to every customer in my book.

Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL, <cough> and I will ship my own when every customer to date has his/hers. Sorry for the delays."
Lets say he does what you said, and doesn't set aside any chips for the IPO. Now a few customers get their chips a few weeks sooner, and it's a giant FU to all of those who bought into the IPO (which does not include me).

There's a limited amount of chips in the first batch. Not everyone can get their chips. Someone has to wait. Do they make the customers wait? The IPO investors? If Josh was getting a free MR just for his own personal profit, then I would be pissed.


After all that has transpired, do you really think such a thing is beyond him?
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