Which crypto is truly anonymous?

[generalizethis]

Cryptography isn't my area of expertise...

Guess you pass (can you go 2 for 2?).

shadowcash developer:

--failure to recognize a flaw (when a Monero cryptographer spelled it out for you) [  ]

--no expertise in cryptography [ X ]

[rustynailer]

Cryptography isn't my area of expertise...

Guess you pass (can you go 2 for 2?).

shadowcash developer:

--failure to recognize a flaw (when a Monero cryptographer spelled it out for you) [  ]

--no expertise in cryptography [ X ]

Nice straw man reply, Mr fungible.

This developer with quote "no expertise in cryptography" has built a far superior solution than using xmr.to/ that you are peddling here.

I mean what sort of joke is that, I have to trust a 3rd party website to make an anonymous trade.

[Kewde]

--failure to recognize a flaw (when a Monero cryptographer spelled it out for you) [  ]

I was the first developer to take a look at this vulnerability, and we immediately recognized the flaw  described in the mathematics.
What you're saying is simply untrue, https://github.com/shadowproject/shadow/issues/25#issuecomment-182977494

A flaw in theory doesn't immediately mean that it's applicable to the software in question.
I did not code our ring signature implementation so it took some time to find all the details about the OpenSSL libraries we use.

[generalizethis]

--failure to recognize a flaw (when a Monero cryptographer spelled it out for you) [  ]

I was the first developer to take a look at this vulnerability, and we immediately recognized the flaw  described in the mathematics.
What you're saying is simply untrue, https://github.com/shadowproject/shadow/issues/25#issuecomment-182977494

A flaw in theory doesn't immediately mean that it's applicable to the software in question.
I did not code our ring signature implementation so it took some time to find all the details about the OpenSSL libraries we use.

I remember the shadowcash team denying shen's bounty (a "how dare he make this public!" response) and then claiming their test results came back fine--my memory isn't that short (your participation in the events is overshadowed by the group's response--maybe get a better crew).

And just for the record: are you a cryptographer?

@icebreaker, I seem to remember you had a rundown of this fiasco.

[rustynailer]

--failure to recognize a flaw (when a Monero cryptographer spelled it out for you) [  ]

I was the first developer to take a look at this vulnerability, and we immediately recognized the flaw  described in the mathematics.
What you're saying is simply untrue, https://github.com/shadowproject/shadow/issues/25#issuecomment-182977494

A flaw in theory doesn't immediately mean that it's applicable to the software in question.
I did not code our ring signature implementation so it took some time to find all the details about the OpenSSL libraries we use.

I remember the shadowcash team denying shen's bounty (a "how dare he make this public!" response) and then claiming their test results came back fine--my memory isn't that short (your participation in the events is overshadowed by the group's response--maybe get a better crew).

And just for the record: are you a cryptographer?

@icebreaker, I seem to remember you had a rundown of this fiasco.

Lol calling for backup.

If it was a fiasco then we can thank you guys for taking full advantage.

[generalizethis]

That's five minutes of my life I'm not getting back--good luck with your exit strategy.

[rustynailer]

That's five minutes of my life I'm not getting back--good luck with your exit strategy.

At least you found yours. 

[Kewde]

I remember the shadowcash team denying shen's bounty (a "how dare he make this public!" response) and then claiming their test results came back fine--my memory isn't that short (your participation in the events is overshadowed by the group's response--maybe get a better crew).

And just for the record: are you a cryptographer?

@icebreaker, I seem to remember you had a rundown of this fiasco.

I'll help you refresh your memory.
https://blog.shadowproject.io/2016/02/12/deanonymize-shadow/

We didn't claim our "test results came back fine", we claimed that after 10 hours of messing with OpenSSL libs that we hadn't been able to confirm that the vulnerability was a fact.
This was because our cryptographer wasn't online at the time.

I'm not a cryptographer in the sense that I can create my own cryptographic schemes, but I am capable of comprehending the inner workings of elliptic curve cryptography and most cryptographic schemes that involve diffie-hellman key exchanges at their core. As I programmer I am capable of working with cryptographic libraries and implementing well-documented schemes.

I'll also point that the bug in our system also corresponds to the poorly documented schematics in the inititial CryptoNote whitepaper surrounding the way keyImages are created.
The documentation was so bad that Shen even had to do a second writeup about how they indeterministically map hashes to the curve, https://github.com/ShenNoether/ge_fromfe_writeup/blob/master/ge_fromfe.pdf
The bug was something very small that could've been easily overlooked by anyone doing an implementation based on that paper, but the effects were rather big on the other hand.

Also just FYI, most of the transactions happening on Shadow are still public transactions due to exchanges. On top of that there was only a small portion of ring signature compared to the vast amount of tokens. Of the tokens in existance something < 25% was affected because most HODLers don't move their coins around.

We also never denied Shen his right to the bounty, we did question the applicability but in the end we decided to pay it out. I took 4 days to confirm he was eligible for the bounty and compared to other bounty programs that's rather fast.

--

On the other hand I am confident that our ring signature scheme is secure now, the crucial part in all ring signatures is the keyImage and those have had a thorough review.
The forming of the actual "ring" is not as error-prone as the keyImage and is harder to "fuck up".

[universe_]

for me is really anonymous to be honest and i think that if you use the required software then you can be completely anonymous when using your bitcoins

[Diplo]

Cryptography isn't my area of expertise...

Guess you pass (can you go 2 for 2?).

shadowcash developer:

--failure to recognize a flaw (when a Monero cryptographer spelled it out for you) [  ]

--no expertise in cryptography [ X ]

It certainly is not, but I admit it fully.

Even with it not being my area of expertise I can look at something like XMR.TO and know i'm staying away from it. Way to leap frog over that one though. If your critique of the SDC project is to bring up something from the past that is now moot then I don't see what further discussion there is to be had, especially when that argument has been ended at this point.  

I've laid out in a very easy to understand way why I am a fan of the ShadowProject that stems beyond just the currency itself. If anonymous financial transactions are all someone wants then there are a handful of cryptos that will suffice, Monero being one of them. I for one prefer to invest in and back a project that will be more than just targeting a portion of a market (just anon txs), rather than the market as a whole (anon mkt, encrypted msgs, etc.).

Before things go fully live with the entire project I know there will be a third party code audit.  I know the team and how they work and I can assure you they will have additional sets of eyes to look over everything beforehand.

for me is really anonymous to be honest and i think that if you use the required software then you can be completely anonymous when using your bitcoins

Bitcoin only offers pseudo-anonymity.  It wasn't designed with anonymity in mind, and that's ok.  Bitcoin mixing services work for most people's needs, but there is still the possibility that with someone using enough computing power and combinatorics they could "unwind" the knot created by those services and see who sent what--i'm not a fan of that.

[Abiky]

Bitcoin only offers pseudo-anonymity.  It wasn't designed with anonymity in mind, and that's ok.  Bitcoin mixing services work for most people's needs, but there is still the possibility that with someone using enough computing power and combinatorics they could "unwind" the knot created by those services and see who sent what--i'm not a fan of that.

Agree. But still, Bitcoin could achieve a level of anonymity if Dark Wallet becomes a success once its stable release goes to the public. I was testing it a few days ago, and it seems very promising. Also, it would be great to use Bitcoin mixing services on the dark net instead of the clear net for better privacy.

By the way, I saw the XMR.to site and it looks pretty interesting. The only thing that I do not like is that it says that they log your ip. Still, there could be a way around this using Tor or i2p. Just my opinion. 

[Diplo]

Bitcoin only offers pseudo-anonymity.  It wasn't designed with anonymity in mind, and that's ok.  Bitcoin mixing services work for most people's needs, but there is still the possibility that with someone using enough computing power and combinatorics they could "unwind" the knot created by those services and see who sent what--i'm not a fan of that.

Agree. But still, Bitcoin could achieve a level of anonymity if Dark Wallet becomes a success once its stable release goes to the public. I was testing it a few days ago, and it seems very promising. Also, it would be great to use Bitcoin mixing services on the dark net instead of the clear net for better privacy.

By the way, I saw the XMR.to site and it looks pretty interesting. The only thing that I do not like is that it says that they log your ip. Still, there could be a way around this using Tor or i2p. Just my opinion. 

Dark Wallet is an option, but still all you've done is created anonymized transactions, which have been around for years now. You can mix coins on the dark net, you just use the onion link on the mixing sites instead of their clear net URLs.

XMR.to has done nothing innovative or different, in fact it appears to be an even bigger hassle than just mixing your BTC on one of the mixer sites via Tor. None of these services or coins offer a true seamless solution to actual anonymous and decentralized ecommerce. The darknet is a $5-10 billion+ market, add on top of that other people who want to buy or sell non-illegal things anonymously and without the interference of Ebay or Etsy and you're talking a huge market cap. This is the point i'm trying to make.  You have one project that could potentially address these issues and it's current market cap is around $1.6MM.  That to me is worth putting some money behind; even if it only captures a fraction of the total market share you'd see an ROI of unprecedented heights.

[Abiky]

Dark Wallet is an option, but still all you've done is created anonymized transactions, which have been around for years now. You can mix coins on the dark net, you just use the onion link on the mixing sites instead of their clear net URLs.

XMR.to has done nothing innovative or different, in fact it appears to be an even bigger hassle than just mixing your BTC on one of the mixer sites via Tor. None of these services or coins offer a true seamless solution to actual anonymous and decentralized ecommerce. The darknet is a $5-10 billion+ market, add on top of that other people who want to buy or sell non-illegal things anonymously and without the interference of Ebay or Etsy and you're talking a huge market cap. This is the point i'm trying to make.  You have one project that could potentially address these issues and it's current market cap is around $1.6MM.  That to me is worth putting some money behind; even if it only captures a fraction of the total market share you'd see an ROI of unprecedented heights.

Thanks for your reply. Most recently, I have seen that Bitcoin devs are working into implementing Confidential Transactions into Bitcoin, which may improve its privacy. As for XMR, I have noticed that it has increased in price substantially right after the announcement that dark net markets will begin accepting it. I guess that anonymous cryptocurrencies do have a bright future after all, especially Monero in my opinion. 

[john2231]

I think there is no altcoin or any crypto that you can be anonymous.. almost have a transaction history just like bitcoin.
I dont know if there is new altcoin right now that trully anobymous..

[raphma]

i voted for monero, but navcoin seems a good one too. they have a good bounty to anyone capable of trace a transaction and still nobody could do it.

[Abiky]

i voted for monero, but navcoin seems a good one too. they have a good bounty to anyone capable of trace a transaction and still nobody could do it.

Monero is doing really good right now, especially after the announcement that it will be used by 2 major dark markets. Prices have been increasing over the last days leaving it close to the $10 mark. Seems like there is a bright future for XMR...or maybe not. 

[Bitcoinsummoner]

i voted for monero, but navcoin seems a good one too. they have a good bounty to anyone capable of trace a transaction and still nobody could do it.

Monero is doing really good right now, especially after the announcement that it will be used by 2 major dark markets. Prices have been increasing over the last days leaving it close to the $10 mark. Seems like there is a bright future for XMR...or maybe not. 

Well we will see that price if it will stay long at this level.. i am late that to herer that XMR right now is growing but this is just like the same as last year that they are increase again back and drop again. .

[Abiky]

[
Well we will see that price if it will stay long at this level.. i am late that to herer that XMR right now is growing but this is just like the same as last year that they are increase again back and drop again. .

That could probably happen soon. Still, I think that once ZCash comes public, it will be a major competitor against XMR and DASH and then we'll see which coin is the best anon coin. The one that gets adopted most by the dark markets will be the one at the top, in my opinion. 

[dhampir-D]

[
Well we will see that price if it will stay long at this level.. i am late that to herer that XMR right now is growing but this is just like the same as last year that they are increase again back and drop again. .

That could probably happen soon. Still, I think that once ZCash comes public, it will be a major competitor against XMR and DASH and then we'll see which coin is the best anon coin. The one that gets adopted most by the dark markets will be the one at the top, in my opinion. 

How will be the distribution? And about the algo, will be possible GPU mining?

[bbc.reporter]

What about vcash? I read that they have something called "chain blender" that also anonymizes transactions but I have not read about it thoroughly. Maybe that should also be included in the list?